Personally I don't have a problem with that. Time loop fics tend to be pretty bad, simply because it's hard to create drama and there's minimal character development. The author's done a good job handling this, but he's created numerous plot points to distract us. They can't feature sequentially, as in HP, because they're individually not very interesting. So they've been lumped together and it was particularly noticeable in this chapter.

The end result is that this is Zorian's story. He's doing his thing, getting stronger, gaining independence while pottering around the time loop. A lot of the elements could be removed, true, but then the story would feel threadbare and each 'section' of the plot would be over too quickly.

 

Yea. It generally leads to a sort of 'Zorian did this and this and this, and then the current problem was overcome. Zorian then began this process again for the next problem on his list'. While thats more a fault of the writing, going back to the mid-30 chapters when Zorian was investigating all the Aranea Webs, there was a bit of listing & telling describing all the different webs, as opposed to fully showing them. Same thing happened with a bunch of little details when Zorian was in Knyazov Dveri, especially around the safe-cracking. A lot of it was quickly summed up at 'Zorian did this in one restart, and it failed, then did this in the next and it failed, and then finally got it in attempt n'.

I think thats a natural consequence of trying to narrow down on specific things, especially when dealing with the trial and error nature problem-solving in a Loop story.

I don't really mind the meandering pace--things move reasonably quickly and are generally interesting or engaging. This is free web fiction, not a published book you shelled out for; I'm happy to expect the scope to widen or the writing to not be completely tight. Maybe because I'm following it update-to-update, so it doesn't feel like I have to slog through thousands of words in one go.


I hope Zorian puts including Tavien on ice. I really think inclusion of others in a loop is when these stories go to shit. Kael just scraped by because I feel his inclusion is very off-screen; and it's also pretty transactional between Zorian and Kael.

Zorian helps Kael with progressing his research and in turn Zorian gets access to Kael's unique skills (Necromancy, Alchemy) but other than that Kael isn't really there. I feel that Tavien would be more of a emotional inclusion, after all, it came about after she showed up in his room crying; it feels a bit out-of-character for current Zorian.

I imagine Zorian to be a bit on the gruff side, but he's not a dick about things and he's generally pretty big on propriety, but abandoning his very task-oriented nature to cater to Tavien's emotional plea and begin including her in the loop feels like it should be too much of an impost on Zorian for little actual gain, outside of assuaging guilt or something like that.

Ice Tavien and go for Raynie, she's a hottie.

 

MoL doesn't have to take place in the time loop completely. The author could've reorganized the story like this:
Book 1: Zorian gets stuck in a time loop, meets the spiders, learns and improves mind magic and magical combat, ends invasion / time loop.

Book 2: Zorian deals with the consequences of being so much better than everybody else at everything because of having been in a time loop as shown in the latest chapter. Investigate and deal with the necromantic forces that attacked in Book 1. Networks with other spider clans.

Book 3: Deal with the Dragon Cult. Introduce shifters and shifter politics. Maybe induce a time loop of his own to stop the summoning of demonic forces.

I think the author has enough ideas and conflicts to keep the story interesting if he/she just focused on a few core concepts at a time and delved deeper into them.
Ceebee
I don't expect fanfiction to be 100% on point. For example, I usually don't care about spelling, grammar, showing/telling as I understand that the writers might be inexperienced. I'll even tolerate cliches to a certain extent because they're convenient devices that unblock stories and enable writers to keep the story flowing. However this seems really egregious.

 

...except that he wanted to tell a time loop story. Quite aside from the fact that there are plot points we don't know about, what you are describing would be a fundamentally different story from the one the author wanted to tell (especially in regards to character, enemies, and pacing). And be far more generic, too.

 

???

Just because you tell a time loop story doesn't mean you can't deviate from the formula of constantly being in a time loop all the time for 1Milllion+ words.

How would resolving plot points fundamentally alter characters and enemies? Raynie would still be Raynie and Taiven would still be Taiven. Zorian could still do his thing and learn all the mothers. The Lich will still be dangerous and menacing. Pacing yes I'll grant you but that was my main gripe.

Don't take my previous post too literally. That was just an example of what could've been done to narrow the focus down/provide a conclusion and still keep it interesting (to reply to doomcookie's assertion that the story would be too bare).

 

What I'm saying is, this is the story he wanted to tell. And I picked on the example you made to show how the changes you wanted would undermine that story (character, Zorian reexamining himself and those he relates to, and the slow progression of finding out more about the world around him; enemies, Red Robe and The Lich no longer being these unstoppable forces with, in Red Robes case, mysterious motives, identity, and power).

It's like saying...that Harry Potter was too episodic, too formulaic, and that JKR shouldn't have sent Harry to Hogwarts, because there's an interesting world to explore.

But the school or the timeloop is the underlying setting necessary to tell the story the author wants to tell, and without it it all falls down.

 

Yeah, that's not going to happen, I think. Zorian still seems to be hung up on what happened between him and Taiven, even if he thinks he's gotten over it. Until him and Taiven have a heart to heart about what happened, he's not going to be moving on or looking at other girls much in that way. Maybe bringing Taiven into the time loop will lead up to that. Hopefully this happens soon, since I feel bad for Akoja.

 

Keep in mind we're in the second book now. The first ended at the meeting with Red Robes and the death of the aranea. So if you consider everything after that as being a separate book then it retains it's cohesion.

 

I completely agree. Kael is there as a mentor and someone to bounce ideas off. That is, the author's dispelled and encouraged fan theory and justified Zorian's actions (or lack thereof) under the guise of 'conversing with Kael'. I can't really see what point Taiven would serve in addition to this.

That said, the author's done a good job of handling problematic aspects of time loops, so I have faith.

 

Qgqqqqq
If you think my suggestions were too much then fine. They could be, although I have to disagree that ending a time loop changes the story in a fundamental manner. I'm sure there are better ways of addressing my complaints without changing things too much. I honestly don't care regarding the specifics. My original thing was "nothing is happening, and at the same time too much is happening."

TMNTurtwig
That's a good way to look at it, but meeting red robe and the death of the aranea feels to me more like a wrinkle to the story than as as a conclusion to anything.
CheddarTrek
What you say makes sense. However those two options make for a story that 1) constantly introduces new ideas that may or may not be brought to completion and 2) the big plot doesn't get solved regardless. At what point is Zorian going to be ready to tackle the main plot? How many new and different skills is he going to need? And if those 2 options are the only things Zorian can realistically do in that framework then why am I reading it?

 

That was more of a rhetorical question and not just because I've already dropped this.

I kind of came to the same conclusion that the base idea just doesn't do it for me. I gave my "solutions" but I don't honestly expect the story to cater to my whim.

And while I see what you're saying, the story is still at 320K with no conclusion in sight to those big plots you mentioned. And as I said before, 320K is Goblet of Fire territory in terms of word count (so a little over 3 books). That is why I don't expect things to come to fruition.

 

Eh. I feel like the length is irrelevant as long as it doesn't feel dragged out, which to me it hasn't. Is it long? Yes, no doubt about that. But it doesn't feel unnecessarily long. We obviously differ on that, otherwise you wouldn't be raising your complaints, but I feel that even if it's a long story, he's been making constant progress on the problems he faces.

 

Most heavily plot focused stories are very much based around big build ups on tension, which explode into a climax of huge impact. Then it moves to the next arc and starts the same thing.

As people have already said, that doesn't quite work with a time loop story - because everything that was fixed comes back again. What we have instead is multiple plot arcs building simultaneously, and they'll all have to be solved in a single loop.

The story does tend to feel a bit flat at times, where every chapter feels like it's at the same level - whether Zorian is going and grabbing lunch with his classmates, or just fought in a battle. But I think that's also what has kept it consistent, and kept it from going down the shitty routes most time looping fics do (and I think that's due to a need to keep increasing the epicness of each arc climax).

I don't really get super excited over every update, but at the same time I've always enjoyed reading each one, with the only loss of interest when he went away from Cyoria.

 

It was a decent chapter, I liked the developing Social Link to the shapeshifting girl and that Taiven has been brought into the loops.

The memory pack sub-plot felt a bit meh, we had enough going on where I didn't feel it was necessary and seems more like busywork.

 

Suty my point was what CheddarTrek said in his conclusion: that making it cater to your ideas would undermine the story the author wants to tell. It wasn't meant as an attack at that specific idea, but that I didn't see a way to 'fix' the story (in your eyes) without abandoning the underlying 'setting'.
Jarik would you say this is a plot-focused story? I've always seen it as more character-driven, really.

 

Yeah you are right. Plot driven is probably the wrong term. I should say one structured around a plot perhaps? I mean, this isn't slice of life and the story isn't based around little episodic arcs or anything like that.

 

This so much. Bringing Tavien in has almost zero benefits other than interacting with her every loop. With what was just discussed, it'd take a fair amount of time for her to believe in the loop in the first place. That's just not worth the time investment when the loop is slowly decaying.

Tavien is my least favorite character, probably because Zorian is still hung up on her.

 

I think I like her a lot because of that. There's a history, an actual emotional connection for him.

He feels like he's just playing all the other characters, and they really have no idea because they don't know him. Zorian's biggest characteristic is his logical, unemotional mindset, but I'm hoping more interaction with Taiven will mean we see other aspects to him - also putting him outside his comfort zone a bit.

Though, I'll be disappointed if Taiven is just used as another Kael.