Recently read "Harry Potter and power of the dark side".
Want to read something similar where hero becomes stronger, wants to rule and can kill for it. Not necessary HP fic, may be just SW.
NO SLASH, 100k+ words

 

>Sith
>hero

Gave me a good chuckle there.

Anyway, the only decent Sith-centric fic I know of is a SI, so if that's not your cup of tea, stay away: Embers Burn

 

Starkiller:

>Sith
>Hero

Anyways, you'll probably want to focus on the Old Republic period if you want sympathetic Sith.

 

A story about Dooku could be sympathetic. He fell for more interesting reasons that "power"

 

He's a very sympathetic character, and quit the Jedi for good reasons. It's when he decided to go Sith that everything went out the window.

And something not related to Dooku:

Dark Jedi =/= Sith

Dark Jedi use the force for their own ends, usually monetary, or for vengeance, moderate power, etc. You can be a dark Jedi without being entirely mustache twirling evil. Set Harth and the bounty hunter Aurra Sing, are good examples. Morally ambiguous might be a better description.

Sith is a belief system directly opposing the Jedi's.

I'm sure there's some character out there in Legends canon that is the exception to the rule, but for the most part this is the way old canon describes them. It's a lot easier to make a dark Jedi a hero than a Sith... unless your one of those "Sith are awesome; Jedi suck" people.

 

The very first Dark Jedi are the ones who became Sith though.

Indeed there is. His name is Darth Vectivus.

The essential problem of writing Sith is that authors tend to portray them only mildly sympathetic before turning them into aforementioned mustache twirling, often enough cackling, villains who just want to kill and destroy.

 

The telling point is they became Sith. It's not always the case.

See. Legacy is so full of contradictions.

I don't know enough about him to argue that he didn't do anything different than a number of Banite Sith. He did his thing, passed on knowledge for future generations to let them do the whole "overthrow the Republic and kill the Jedi."

The main problem I have with him is almost all the information we have on him is tales told through Luminya (sp?) and uh... whats-her-name... the blue twi'lek with the chopped off lekku. I forget. So, it might or might not be true. I have no reason to believe it's false. I'm just saying, grain of salt.

Bingo. I've never read a good Sith FF. It's mostly just Sith fanboys jerking off. I'd like to read one in the Darth Bane story style, where he wasn't already knee deep in the dark from the beginning. Just a normalish person put in bad situations/circumstances and gradually fell or was pushed/urged into becoming Sith. You know... a 3-dimentional character.

 

What's the definition of Sith here?

I'm not into the deep lore, but I always just assumed you're a 'Sith' if you follow their creed - Peace is a lie, etc.

I never equated being a Sith as the same as falling to the Dark Side. Jedi guard against that by trying to divorce themselves from their emotions, Sith are far more susceptible because emotions are seemingly their fuel.

I mostly played the Old Republic era games (and TFU) though, and didn't read any EU.

 

You're pretty much correct. You're a Sith if you follow their teachings.

And Jedi divorcing themselves from their emotions or being emotionless is a Sith belief. They have emotions just like any other sentient creature. They just believe in "controlling" them, and not allowing excess.

Think of it this way. You know the old soldier adage about dealing with fear on the battlefield? "It's not that I'm not afraid, it's just if I let that fear control me then I'm already dead." That's the way Jedi deal with emotions. They recognize that they are feeling fear and use their training/meditation/etc. to dispel it.

They're trained to not put themselves into situations that promote emotional extremes, (bonds, love, etc.) that way they can avoid the temptation.

At least that's the way it's "supposed" to work.

 

I'd consider Jacen Solo from Legends to be an example of a sympathetic Sith, even if he was very... weirdly written. He became Sith to avoid Galactic turmoil, manipulated the system to clean it, and at the end let himself be killed (by his twin sister) in order to protect his family.

He was genuinely regretful of his actions, but saw them as necessary to prevent further Galactic turmoil. Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus is an odd charcter, to me, but I can see him as a sympathetic Sith figure.

 

Sounds Revanesque

 

I wouldn't say Dark Jedi are 'morally ambiguous'. They're not Jedi who choose to leave the order, they're ones who turn to the dark side. Just as most are not going to be Joruus C'boath-esque in their goals, their goals will still be generally 'evil', just in more of a criminal than supervillan way. Set Harth was still murdering and stealing from innocent people for nothing more than petty gain.

And yeah, Dath Vevictus may or may not be real. Not that it matters, really - in 1000 years of hiding from the Jedi, it's almost certain that one of them would've gained the title from his/her master and then just...rested on their laurels, without really pursuing the goal.

You're thinking of Aayla Secura.

 

So Dark Jedi are Jedi who turn to the dark side, but they're not Sith because they still follow the Jedi creed? (otherwise why still call them Jedi?)

The more I learn, the more I'm glad they dropped all this shit tbh.

 

The original Dark Jedi were regular Jedi that left the Order because they wanted to study more the dark side of the Force than the Order was comfortable with. They went way too far and created these eldritch abominations and started the Hundred Years War (c.5000 BBY). The Jedi stepped in, defeated them and exiled them. In time those same people began the Sith in direct opposition to the Jedi and their beliefs.

If the person that is using the dark side of the Force for their own petty gain, if they are studying the dark side, or using dark side powers then they are classified as Dark Jedi. They don't follow the same creed as regular Jedi.

If they follow the Sith Code (Peace is a Lie, etc.) study and use Sith teachings, etc. they are classified as Sith. They follow their own creed, with is basically galactic domination.

Due to the inconsistency of the Legends canon you will usually find people this doesn't apply to because the author wanted them to be a hero with dark side powers, because they're cool or something.

Even George Lucas was inconsistent with the rules, so it's a nightmare to keep up with, because people will come out and say, "Starkiller and Kyle Katarn use sith lightning and they're not evil!!!!1!!!1"

They aren't, but according to the Jedi of the old republic (pre- 19 bby) they'd be considered Dark Jedi. They were very strict with their beliefs and anyone that did things different would most likely be exiled and labeled Dark Jedi if they continued to use the dark side like that.

Luke wasn't such a hardass with the NJO and basically said "if you can keep your shit together then go ahead."

 

He seems to be fairly real, given that there existed a holocron made by him, which was deemed useless/worthless by Krayt's One Sith due to Vectivus not really striving for any sort of galactic domination and/or destruction of the Jedi.

Don't forget about Plo Koon. He apparently used some kind of odd variation of Force Lightning, which he called Electric Judgment, that was usually either green or yellow, as opposed to the standard electric-blue.

 

It's easier to think of the difference between Dark Jedi and Sith as the split between Catholic and Protestant. Dark Jedi are Catholic heretics, using the teaching of Catholicism, but in ways that violate the already established dogma. The Sith are Protestants; they had a problem with Catholicism and opted to form their own, separate religion that has its own radically different dogma.

It's not difficult.

 

Totally different.

Electric judgement saps the person's energy and aggressiveness or some such nonsense. (it was a game mechanics thing. While technically it was Legend canon it was lame Legends canon.) It didn't do any physical harm. Sith lightning pretty much tortures you and/or kills you outright.


Have we gotten far enough from the original question of the OP yet?

 

Hugplx what Heather Sinclair said.


Aekiel, I disagree that you could put Dark Jedi as Catholic Heretics, as it seems to imply too much of a personal philosophy/fundamental embrace of the underlying precepts of the Jedi. A dark Jedi is turning against the philosophy of the Jedi, but not normally with anything to replace it.


I was under the impression that Starkiller is basically just a sith until he become a Jedi, with the unchanged lightning simply for game mechanics.

 

Shhh, I'm enjoying this.

It's not really often that I get to talk about Sith stuff on DLP.

 

I'm sure we could start a thread like "Star Wars questions that don't deserve their own thread" and ask a nice Mod move all our off topic stuff back to there. We could even decorate it with a nice stormtrooper helmet and everything.