Lately there has been some debate about the attitudes of our new members. It seems to the older members (not that I am one really) that the quality of discussion has considerably lessened. This may be attributed to the sudden influx of a large amount of new members who are all learning the way that we interact on this forum, but it may also be the fault of older members of the forum.

Many of us are guilty of lashing out at undeserving peers when they make mistakes. By no means am I implying that we are wrong to berate every mistake, some of them have been undoubtedly worth punishment. But when we take it to an extreme: Continued harrasment, immature insults... that is what we need to cut down on.

I'm not so deluded as to think that new users look up to older ones as role models, but they do react accordingly to the posting environment. If the first thing somebody enounters in a new community is harrasment and a myriad of useless/stupid posts, they are more likely to respond in kind; creating all of those annoying posts that get on our nerves.

Basically, what I'm getting at is: We should try not to be so harsh on newer members. By setting intelligent examples for them to follow they may turn out alright and stop giving us headaches. I mean, look at me. I was almost banned when I was a new user and I turned out alright (though I do still cause a lot of headaches ).

 

Let the punishment fit the crime, unless it's a repeat offense. Then feel free to make the offender feel like the retarded ass goblin that they probably are.

 

Yeah, I agree - like I said in the "Sphere of Influence" thread, our prominance in the fanfiction world has risen and we are now a high profile site. While we should not have to conform to other's standards, I do think we should try to be more civil in this light.

To put it in fanfiction terms, at the moment DLP is a bit like Volon666's Harry in Scorpion Sorcerer: a bit prone to go off on angry and ill advised rants; a bit immature in our attitude to others; a bit full of ourselves and our perceived power; a bit...unsophisticated I think is the word I'm looking for. If manners make the man, then DLP is the Graham Norton of the fanfiction world.

Instead of this type of Harry, we should be more like (you've guessed it) a Ravenclaw/Slytherin hybrid. Intelligent, restrained in our actions, calm, welcoming of new members while quietly and subtly killing off the weeds.

That is all I have to say, let the neg repping commence.

 

I think Taure hit the nail on the head with that post. Good job

 

Exactly. Thank you. I couldn't be in more agreement.

The PP3 feud was one of the most stupid, idiotic, and dumb things I've ever encountered. Ever.

We acted like fucking BABIES. The internet may be anonymous, but I use the same name elsewhere and I was embarrassed.

DLP should be the MOST intelligent, sharp, shrewd, and sophisticated website.

The past few weeks, I've realized that this site, collectively, tends to throw temper tantrums and act like whiny bitches.

I couldn't agree more. Blue, you just got some rep points (from me. )

Give'em more folks. Give generously.

 

The Internet...

All I have to say on the matter:

 

Good idea, neg rep the pricks, and make sure your flames (when warrented) are strong enough to kill their hopes and dreams forever.

We can try to stop half ranting at everyone and save it for those who deserve it, but I doubt it'll work. We're fast approaching 2,500 members, if someone gets annoyed at one percent on any given day that's twenty three flames a day. And let me tell you a good bit more than 1% piss me off (I just resist the urges as best I can).

Call it a hazard of of being popular. Unless newbies who screw up are slapped down hard in their first two weeks, their posting patterns are set. After that (in their minds if no one elses) they are "members" and no longer "n00bs" to be shown what's what. In the first couple weeks after joining a forum, you expect a little "guidance" from the local assholes and you adjust accordingly. After that, you call a prick a prick and then someone pulls out a banstick...

But yes, intelligent conversation is a good thing, even if it's just someone asking about the symbolism behind Harry's scar.

 

Chuck, Ive all the respect for you in the world man, but seriously. A word of advice. STFU.

I use the same name on Every site I visit and regularly laugh about the PP3 crap. But it was decided by all that it was over and done with. Stop mentioning it and stop emoing about it. It happened and if you are so embarassed about it ... well.. no one is forcing you to post.

And if you take this so seriously that you cant look at it and laugh and that iyou feel actual embarrassment its time to leave the internet for a while.

Internet. Serious Business.

As far as the new crowd of members? Ive noticed alot of emo bastards slipping in and whigning about this and that and crying when someone tells them their story sucks. Dont like it, then leave. DLP was founded on critical, unbiased, honest reviews. Not pandering to the egos of coat hanger abortion canidates.

Ive never been one to shy away from tearing into a newb who deserved it and I wont stop now. First offence or not. Dont like me? Pity. Scuse me while I /wrist.

Point is if the staff was truly concerned about people ripping into the newbs, we'd say something about it. When the vocal defense of the newbs is brought to conversation, the silence is deafening. DLP was never an Equal oppertunity Wesbsite. You earn your place here.

 

Dude, we acted like douches to those people.

Embarassment may have been too strong a word, but c'mon.

Is this how you guys want DLP to be thought of?

EDIT: It wasn't just PP3, and I absolutely DO NOT want to bring that up again.

I just felt like it was indicative to me how much the culture of this place had changed. And not for the better either.

 

A verbally violent community? Dude, anyone who's here for a few moments would get that impression from just reading posts from people like Vash and XiphO. I thought that was the original intention of this site though.

EDIT: No, I am not fingering Vash or XiphO. Its just an example. -_-

 

We are famous for our brutally honest criticisms, that is true. And I think that is a good think and shouldn't change. If someone's fic sucks, we say it and thats what we should do.

The problem comes when people can't make the separation between an author and their story. Often if a person posts a bad story, people will not say "To be honest, your fic sucks", which is perfectly reasonable, but they will say "You suck [insert offensive rant here]".

That is the distinction that needs to be made and where we need to draw the line I feel.

 

I don't like this rep thing. If one person does one double post, then at least 4+ people will decide to neg rep him/her. That is kind of annoying. I even got neg repped because I had different views in a subject, and they thought I was wrong. So I am repped down because I have a differnet mindset? I think this REP thing needs to go away.

 

I actually agree about the whole "rep" thing.

I think its turned shit into a pissing contest (and I have a pretty good rep) and a baseless hierarchy. Rep should be earned based on past experiences with the poster (cogent arguements, humore, etc.) Not some number that you see in the corner of the screen.

And I agree with Taure. My problem has emerged when people start blasting individuals. I said it before, but I think that its TOTALLY acceptable to say, "Your story sucks."

You should say that. ITs when reviewers make it personal and say, "You suck. Stop writing. Crawl into a hole and die, because you're worthless."

That shit seems juvenile and stupid to me. Fics you can blast to hell and back. If you put it out into the world, then you allow people to blast away at it. (Anyone feel free to do so, on some of the one shots I did (that didn't get erased), or plan to do on the new S&P)

Individuals though, are a different matter. That's the line for me.

 

Something else I would like to add as an example of what I'm talking about:

In IRC, Tinn said (and I hope she doesn't mind me bringing her into this) that she wanted to post in this thread, but felt that she couldn't 'cos she is relatively new. Now, Tinn is a very intelligent person (even if she is French) and could contribute a lot to this site, but because of the attitude towards new people felt that she couldn't.

This is the attitude that I feel has to stop.

I remember that when I first joined, only mods and admins were allowed to tell people off. There was one case I seem to remember of an ordinary member flaming someone for double posting, an ordinary occurance now, and the member that did the flaming got kicked themselves for overstepping their bounds and taking the responsibility of modding on themselves.

There is a reason why we have selected mods - let them do their job in moderating the forum, and people should stop trying to police everything themselves.

 

Oh I wouldn't say that was as far as it got. You could always do that to someone who constantly sent in shit stories, but I agree that doing it to a first timer is a tad pathetic.

And rep points? I personally thought it was just a way for the more senior members to say, "I'm your boss so STFU." Whilst it is abused occasionally, it helps to keep some of the newbies in line. If you don't want it to become such a big pissing contest, you could always restrict it a little.

 

I'll admit that I've torn into several newbies about the rules. I've been called a Grammar Nazi several times on other websites, and I'll admit that yes, I am a Grammar Nazi.

That being said, I'm amazed at how some of the newbies just ignore the "Morons Need Not Apply" announcement.

 

Well, that certainly needed to be said, Blue.

We probably need to be nicer to new members. We probably need to re-read our rules before bashing. Such as, the rule about the "no posting slash". Several times lately, newbies were... well, not bashed, but spoken a little curtly, for liking slash. One of them hadn't mentioned it in her intro thread; it was in her profile. She even said she wouldn't bother us with slash stories. Yet people started bitching about her reading slash. However, in the rules, it is said that nobody cares if you like slash as long as you keep it to yourself.

Perhaps some reflexes of DLPers should be abandoned, or at least, treated with greater care. Let's not bash someone because they read slash; but if they post slash, or defend the idea of HD being so hawt, then let's warn them. Let's not shoot down to hell a story because it's H/G; better read the story, give a fair and honest opinion, and then, if it's not good enough for DLP (which has a few stories with H/G in them), let's bin it/delete it.

I'm only taking examples here, and by the way, I'm certainly one of those who need to follow such rules more. My point is, stopping the bashing and crude insults won't make DLP lose its identity. What makes DLP's identity, in my opinion anyway, is the honesty in the feedback given. The flames, if they can be funny, should be justified as well.

However, simple rules like double-posting or using proper English (save for the non-native speakers of course) have to be followed by the newbies. Maybe we should try to send the offendant ones PMs (at least the first time), instead of gathering to stone them in threads that weren't made for that purpose.

After that, those who still won't follow the rules deserve a bashing, I guess...

Not sure I was completely on topic, but that's my modest contribution.

EDIT: Taure, I don't mind you bringing me into this; the reason why I was hesitant about posting is because I wasn't sure I could consider myself as a member old enough to start giving pieces of advice. That's all. But I do agree--sometimes people don't post for fear of being flamed. I used to do that. Now I'm a little bolder...

 

Don't worry love. I've turned into one over the years of fan fiction reading. It just happens. Besides, Grammar Nazis help keep us in line.

And the sad thing about newbs is you can't completely get rid of them. They'll be here and there every once a while but don't worry. Sooner or later, they'll get the picture. However, if they continue to break the rules around you, you can give them a warning and if they don't heed it, just send them away! That simple.

 

I would like to expand upon Taure's statement.

Backseat modding can be a good thing as it helps beat the rules into people's heads. However, when the modding gets rude or insulting it becomes a problem. A simple reminder of the rules could be far more affective than throwing a fit.

Edit: Unless you're a mod of course. They should take any and all opportunities presented to rip into rule breakers.

 

I'll have to agree with the softer line here.

Yes, everyone acts stupid and unproductive on occasions. It's unavoidable because, after all, we're only humans. But that's why we have this thing called social groups - to act as buffers for erratic individual behavior and sort of bring anyone into the same frame of mind. Unfortunately, even the best of groups sometimes stray from their original path and start encouraging the exact sort of behaviors they had been created to guard from in the first place.

It happened with religions. It happened with communism. I fear it's happening with DLP too.

I won't say anything more, other then urge everyone to seek out their older posts and skim over their own grammar mistakes, pointless posts and blunders; the same kind of errors that are now met with self-righteous screaming session, complaints about stupid neewbs and lamentations about the good old days.