Yeah, Cheddar, that bothered me too. Especially since

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Stark then goes to the trouble of 'messing' with the audio when talking to Sam.

 

Spider-Man hates star wars heh.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/53/c2/13/53c213bf95ad10404f9a48d964a4b6be.jpg

 

So just got back from seeing this and I utterly loved it, this is easily one of my new favorite movies. Great fights, great story, great visuals but there was just one big thing that bugged me through most of the movie.

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First off, stuff I loved.

Spider-Man was phenomenal and I loved that for once he actually sounded and acted like a kid instead an obvious adult trying to play one. His interactions with everyone were great and I loved watching him fanboy out.

Everyone's acting was stellar for this, there wasn't a single person who didn't absolutely nail their roles.

That airport fight scene for me is now the official gold standard for all superhero fights. I mean it was just a stellar piece of work and both the Russo brothers and the actors deserve a standing ovation for it. The Russos need to permanently be left in charge of Marvel hero movies from now on.

Out of all of the individual fights though I have to say that I loved the 2v1 Cap/Bucky beating Tony like a dimestore hooker. It wasn't as spectacular in terms of the visuals but there was a visceral fluidness to it that I thought was amazing to watch. I honestly clapped when Cap rammed the shield through Tony's chest and depowered the suit.

Now as for my one problem with the movie.

I know that the idea was for both Cap and Stark to be presented as having valid concerns but I'm sorry I just think Stark came across as nothing but an egotistical manchild that was willing to turn on quite possibly the most honorable man alive for no other reason than he's Tony Stark and he's a genius so how could any idea but the one he likes be right? I think Natasha and Clint had it dead on when they said "Are you really so arrogant that you can't set aside your ego for a damned second?" and "Look everyone, the futurist, the futurist is here to decide what's best for you whether you like it or not." If he could have grown up and set his aside his ego for even a moment to simply give Cap the benefit of the doubt I think that most of the first 3/4ths of the movie didn't need to have happened.

I honestly ended up rolling my eyes at most of his reactions. Like when they first captured Cap and Stark somehow thought that giving him a really nice pen was supposed to make him roll over and do what he's told and then he got all pissy and started posturing when it didn't. Or when Spider-Man got smacked down by Lang and he panicked and flew down I thought it was kind of ridiculous because if he was that concerned about Peter being hurt then he shouldn't have strong armed a kid with literally only six months worth of experience with his powers/fighting out to Germany in the first place. Same goes for when Rhodey got shot by Vision, there are any number of other plans he could have gone with besides lets have the robot with the super laser in his head shoot almost directly at us. Him getting upset at Falcon for not just letting himself be shot was asinine, that was entirely on Stark.

The only time I started feeling anything even resembling sympathy for him was after his last talk with Widow and he finally realized that Cap was completely right the whole time. After that in the final showdown while I didn't want him to win was the first time I completely understood and agreed with his reaction. Guy murders your parents and is right in front of you, Tony smash. Guy tries to stop you from killing the guy who murdered your parents, Tony smash.

All in all though, fantastic movie despite my gripe.

 

I cant wait to see this movie. This weekend, all set, finally.

 

just saw it today, i wanted to see it when it came out but it was sold out at my theater. I don't know how the avengers will make up, since they were on both sides and stark helped lock them away. but over all was a great movie, worth the wait to see it

 

Huh. Actually seeing the movie made me even more certain that Stark was right than just seeing the trailers.

I suppose the movie works in dividing the audience, which must have been their goal.

 

It's not like Tony was competently on board with Ross. Ross wanted to control the Avengers and Tony still said "you have to let us deal with this". I think it was as much about simply not being branded criminals or having to retire (which Tony couldn't tolerate) as it was about "being put in check".

 

Tony had that (being put in check) as a motivator - he very explicitly said so after the first meeting with Ross.

Which is hilarious considering this is the guy that said "[...] we don’t have time for a city hall debate."

 

I think the line was something like ' you all have wife and children's '. So he didn't specifically mention them.

 

I'm honestly curious, how do you come to the conclusion after his litany of failures and being proved wrong at almost every turn that the whiny brat is right?

 

... that doesn't seem like a question looking for a legitimate answer.

Especially since I challenge the assumption you're basing it on, that Stark was actually proven wrong by anything.

 

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I disliked the Hawkeye scene at the end in the prison, slightly too angsty for me from Clint. The fight at the airport wasn't the greatest either overall. Spiderman and Ant-Man certainly kicked arse, same with Scarlet Witch. The last fight was awesome and gave Iron Man his time to shine.

Favorite scene would be when Spiderman grabs the Winter Soldier's hand and twists it all casual and Buck is like wtf. Go Spidey go.

Stark definitely got the short end of the stick for my mind, especially since he didn't really speak to anyone outside the cap and widow yet everyone wanted to pile their shit on him.

Definitely my favorite Marvel movie and not for the action ironically. I like being able to relate to everyone, Tony's side, Cap's side and even the villian's side. It wasn't just evil dudes versus good dudes and queue action.

Since the action was mostly awesome to go with the great plot easily the best Marvel movie to date.

 

Did Tony even know "Ross" was involved until the prison scene? I can't recall that.

IMHO the best Avenger universe movie script. Despite the smaller "feel" and less "bombast" I was really positively surprised after the last Avengers2 which felt more like a hit&miss to me. Can't wait for Infinity War.

 

Yes. They'd had two or three meetings prior to the prison scene.

 

I'm pretty conflicted about it too. On the one hand, it did feel a little bloated, not nearly as tight as Winter Soldier. On the other, a lot of that bloat came from Black Panther, and slightly less from Spider-Man and Ant-Man, and I absolutely loved all three of them, more than any other character in Marvel with the possible exceptions of Cap in TWS and Star-Lord in GotG. So I'm left feeling like I can't really place where this film ranks for me in terms of the MCU.

 

What do y'all think about these Accords? Now that there are no mutants.

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Personally I found it ridiculous the way Ross (and Tony by extension) tried to frame the conflicts in the MCU as the Avengers' fault. Especially 'Washington DC' - that was SHIELD/HYDRA and the whole world is aware of it. And Tony pushing his personal guilt over Ultron on all of them was more than a little weird.

...how? I can't think of a scene of his that I'd cut from the narrative.

 

I just mean in terms of the overall saturation of characters and plot threads. But you're right, I wouldn't cut anything of his either.

And I don't think it's about the conflicts being the Avengers' faults so much as how much incentive they have to minimise casualties and how they take that into account when going ahead with plans. We set the extent to which they care, but even with that there's casualties. There's a lot of parallels between the Accords and restrictions placed on use of force by ordinary cops.