fonti, this. I am willing to accept the soft on face value but you talking about vigging people in nights to come kinda freaks me out.

 

Vaimes pls talk to me about your fluffy read thx

 

Like, that wasn't a snide attack, I'm honestly trying to see your mindset here.

You were convinced that font and Math were scum together. Now you're convinced that they aren't? What changed? What makes you think that's real and not scum distancing? Remember that font explicitly is avoiding lynching Math at the moment. Why did you see that and immediately think "Font and Math would never be buddies here." Why do you see me and font pushing in different directions and think "Font and Mal ARE buddies here"?

If Vaimes isn't scum, why are you dismissing his meta-reads on me and font? Before saying "Vaimes is scum /with/ them" was a pretty good reason. That doesn't stand anymore. If you think he's being tricked, why not ignore anything I post and direct a couple posts towards Vaimes?

 

The number of shots I may or may not have is not something I will be discussing.

 

When I get off work, Eco. Patience.

Still think Eido wouldn't give scum an extra kill so font is likely, at the very least, not groupscum.

Unvote
Vote MathBlade

I'll let Eco breathe a bit.

---------- Post automerged at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:56 ----------

Also don't think she's SK.

#setupgaming

---------- Post automerged at 13:59 ---------- Previous post was at 13:57 ----------

Typhon holding out hope he can get me lynched is both hilarious and sad.

Mixed Masons is practically bastard gaming.

 

1. I already addressed that it's ridiculous to reduce my reads to "only fonti"
2. It is not odd for me to have had a lot to say about her at the time considering she was one of my top 2 scum reads at the time. I would have rather mulled it some more but hey, full disclosure.
3. I think this is all quite clear in my progression that I have laid out quite clearly.

You can continue to read into it however you'd like to, but it's garbage.

And tbh, I've read you as gamesolvey. Specifically, I townread you for the use of the word 'principled' at some random point yesterday (pretty sure I used it myself afterword bc I liked it). It made me feel good in the same way Delphine using 'visceral' did. But you blindly following fonti onto that embarrassment of lynch on Jarizok makes me think you're not evaluating this game as critically as you want to appear to be.

If you have a decent question, I'm receptive. But this you-talked-about-fonti-when-you-said-you-didn't stuff is just... what's your point?

---------- Post automerged at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------

Fonti explain this post to me, don't think you ever addressed it. Why did you call for Fluff to be a lynch under pressure yesterday? Why didn't you shoot him over Waco if you weren't shooting Tom?

 

hi dlgn, please don't waste time on typos. Unless you think the typo is telling.

---------- Post automerged at 14:18 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------

/tencharacters

 

I have a lot of feelings about Math. It's not that I can't see them as scum - I can. The thing is this, though; that read has not in any way evolved since whenever I cased it for Waco halfway through D1. It can't evolve, because the entire thrust of it is that I don't believe that they really believe the things that they're saying, because it is entirely illogical even for what I perceive to be their thought patterns. The counterpoint is that I don't have an incredibly firm grasp (or much of a grasp at all, to be perfectly candid) on Math's logic, so while I have and continue to think they are >rand scum, that is not enough at a point in the game where there are stronger scum caught dead to rights. If Math is scum, it will only become more obvious later.

Their reaction to Vaimes, particularly, was weird. Didn't care for it. But the counterpoint is that the only reason I barely blinked at it was because I remembered Delph's weird 1/2 at best thing and was willing immediately to accept Vaimes was Mason /and/ that there is a scarcely more Math thing to do than to feel like they know someone's role so well that they'll dispute someone else claiming it (even if it would make no sense for them to claim it as scum) because they believe so strongly in their role read. That is an awful interactuon for most - it is borderline NAI for Math.

As far as Vaimes goes, he's hanging out in you guys' pocket or there's a weird ass role in the game I do not know. Probably the first one. That's to be dealt with later, just like Math - that said, if you are town and will engage with me on this Vaimes, I'd be happy to talk about everything.

I'm not ignoring you, Mal, because that feels dickish, and I didn't mean to be dickish in the first day but I emphatically won't be D2. If you're town, I'm open to being convinced.

I just don't believe you ever believed that Jarizok was scum in the last minutes of D1, and I don't believe that there exists a world that you think fonti shot Waco last night as the town vig.

As the community has become fond of saying, you smell like scum. To some extent alone, but even more so with how you've interacted with fonti.

 

Like, is it also telling that she typed December instead of January?

 

Okay so setting aside SK, are we getting fucked by the fact that there is no town vig to cc fonti, she IS a vig and DID soft it, but she's mafia vig and shot n1 because pressure/pr hunt (tom claimed vanilla)?

---------- Post automerged at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:19 ----------

Excuse me? You know that was a typo why?

Am I not asking because I think that post was potentially very telling?

---------- Post automerged at 14:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------

December/January is a matter of record. Calling for a Fluff lynch, a person you've pretty damn hard townread, when there are a lot of votes on you near EOD, is potentially VERY important, and really really strange for you to assume as a typo and find insignificant.

 

Please don't do this. I'm very clearly backing off of you in light of the Mason claim. I say you're soft town because I believe you're a Mason and think masons are aligned, but am not positive about the mechanics of masons.

You guys realize this is the 3rd (2nd full) closed game of mafia I've played, right? I don't know a ton about roles that aren't explicitly given to me in the setup. Pardon me if I don't pretend otherwise.

 

I knew it was a typo because the principle of charity is just as important in a mafia game as it is elsewhere and she corrected herself in the next post, which I just quoted.

I'm addressing this now because I noticed your mistake at EoD yesterday but didn't have time to correct it, and hoped you'd realize how dumb you were being overnight.

Like, you keep sniping people for little wording tell bullshit instead of on substantive points.

---------- Post automerged at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------

You completely missed the point of that post. The first two words "Jari. Sorry" are correcting her mention of fluff. The December/January thing is just rhetorical hyperbole here, demonstrating that her claim to be rushed seems to be accurate. Unless you think that she "slipped" and then purposefully typed December instead of January to cover it up.

---------- Post automerged at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:27 ----------

Also, its not strange for me to take the side of people accused of dumb wording tells. You'll recall I did the same thing when this happened to Typhon, regardless of my read on Typhon.

I'm done discussing this, and so are you.

---------- Post automerged at 14:29 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

That said, I'm fully in violation of Garcia here, so feel free to continue this discussion with font.

 

I didn't even read the Jarizok post as a response to me tbh. I may be a bit too tunneled rn.

Whatever. Ignoring it.

 

Almost at the end? Well first, I thought tom was more likely to be scum and that's why I switched to Tom. Because tom parking on font after Cobalt asked him to makes me feel pretty sure that exactly one of tom/cobalt is scum, more likely to be Tom than Cobalt. Because while tom /does/ randomly let people direct his vote, he can do basic lynch math and know that the fonti lynch didn't have the votes. Parking on font while absolving himself of responsibility is absolutely something scum!tom would do.

Before that? No, I sincerely thought Jarizok was scum that was very close to having a ballsy play backfire. And Tom/Jarizok wasn't ever eliminated as a possibility either.

At the very end? The fact that Tom wasn't lynched despite easily having something like 11 or 12 possible votes earlier that day pointed pretty strongly to Jarizok being town, regardless of Tom's alignment. Because for the scum team, lynching jarizok was something they could do without taking responsibility for it (they could shunt responsibility to font, per conftown!Jarizok's request) AND if tom is scum, it obviously saves him. But uh, you'll note that I had to switch back to Jarizok because multiple multiple people wouldn't lynch tom, including you.

I /am/ slightly suspicious of font's claimed night action here. Like, I can see the logic and was slightly scumreading Waco for similar reasons to her and Eco, /but/ Waco could have gotten cleared by getting shot? Like, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility for Waco to be playing a low profile power role, and the scumteam might have shot him to avoid giving any information about the mess of people in the swirl of controversy (you'll note that shooting Delphine /did/ give information about the mess of people in controversy). I completely missed any hints that Delphine/Vaimes were masons because I'm bad at rolehunting.

Either way, I absolutely would have shot tom. We already had wagon information on him, he wasn't ever going to clear himself even if he is town, he had the opportunity to claim unlike Waco, ect ect.

So what I would have done and what fonti claims she did obviously diverge here and I think her action was +EV for scum here, even though this seems like an action that's within font's town range. This makes me pretty paranoid, because the last time she did a +EV move for scum that was plausibly town, it was in CatHunt.

/But/ on the other hand, wagons yesterday and reasons given still make me think that the scumteam wants her dead? Which instead reminds me of my misread on Proph, where the scumteam wanted him dead, but he wasn't town either.

Separately, a 3 person scumteam with a 1-shot vig seems exactly like an Eido setup, very similar in design to the setup with a scum doctor that let Cobalt skate to endgame, despite being the obvious last scum on Day3.

That's where my head is at. I think the only way to resolve it is to stop trying to read font on how other people are pushing her and make her commit to gamesolving, and then judging the gamesolving. Which I've been doing.

But in the meantime, I'm not going to tolerate lazy pushes on her. You can do better than that, and if you're town and she's scum, you can figure out her scumteam. So similarly, I want to judge /your/ gamesolving. Here's a hint: It's wrong right now.

---------- Post automerged at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

I mean, it wasn't a response to you. It was a response to Fluff going "What?!" while quoting her post.

Thank you though.

 

I have two letters.

---------- Post automerged at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 ----------

Agreed. As much as my gut disagrees you are the last mason logically.

---------- Post automerged at 12:30 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

Good point. Typhon+Eco?

 

I'm going to talk to you about Jari right now, and then I'll talk to you about the rest in the next day or so. Don't let me forget, this all warrants a response.

Here's the thing with Jari - if Tom were another player, and Jari was a possible lynch or Jari was almost guaranteed to be next or something, then yeah, sure, /maybe/ he has the balls to march up to fonti, look her in the eye, and say "You know what? You're full of shit and I'm going to prove it. Lynch me, since you keep throwing shade and scumreads my way, and when I flip town, they can lynch you tomorrow." Probably still not at his level of experience, if you want my opinion.

But Jari was never getting lynched yesterday, Tom has been lynched regardless of alignment in every game so far that he's played here so far as I know, and I don't buy that you or anyone else believed Jari believed he was the lynch tomorrow so much that he might as well go for the gambit to save /tom/ because he was fucked anyway.

And you allegedly believed that right up until just moments before the end, because you were trying to persuade Q to get onto Tom because at that point we needed Jari's vote to lynch Jari, and you were saying he was going to swap off at the last second. From a a guy that was so bleeding town, however misguided, that he didn't swap his vote to fonti when we were 2 votes shy of lynching her (with his vote) because he wanted to make sure he was the lynch as evidence against fonti rather than letting it slip off to Tom.

Now, you can claim that was a stupid play by him and it was stupid for me to encourage it. I've considered it at length and decided that I agree with that, even though I feel that it should in theory give us fonti at the least and looks incredibly bad for you. With this day start having gone as it has? I'll never make the mistake again (nor, I suspect, will he). But the play was made, and it shrieked of town all the way, really, but exclusively of town near the end.

 

My head is screaming that but I see two possible teams
Fonti+Tom
Or
Typhon+Eco+(someone who I have been townreading or Tom)

Tom to me is independently scummy for his D1 reads where he faked his fakes.
Fonti not shooting him would be a scum claim for someone like me but Fonti it is so crazy. I think scum are being manipulative. However I think the proper thing to do is see what Fonti does here and how she reacts. She is always a Town leader even if not in post counts in direction. She has to pick at least one scum today or she is. Regardless of Vig claim.

---------- Post automerged at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 ----------

See that is the thing. I want her accountable for her play today. I want to know why Typhon and Tom switched in her readwall order. I want her to demonstrate this amazing prowess that makes her "unlynchable". My gut is screaming Fonti Tom but my logic brain says Typhon+Eco. I want Fonti today to quell my fears.

 

This is a towny thing to say. :/

 

Seriously....That is your starting point after yesterday?

I don't like how so many people "mysteriously" scumread me overnight because I expressed doubt over claims. It is sketchy.

---------- Post automerged at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 ----------

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=966893&postcount=2052

You switched off Eco while I was sleeping to me when I had a whole 0 posts. Why?

---------- Post automerged at 12:48 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------

I thought Snowvon said that was who she logically would have killed but I didn't see her claim it. Since she does not contest this then I will assume she shot Waco.

---------- Post automerged at 12:50 ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 ----------

So Fonti who are we lynching today?

And realize if they do not turn up red I will tunnel you into scumdust or town will do it for me from my grave.

 

Mathblade for the love of all that is holy what is wrong with you?