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WIP Alexandra Quick and the Thorn Circle by Inverarity - K+

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by ray243, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Well, I guess we're back to Chambridge next chapter. But it took me a few minutes after I was done reading to notice it: there wasn't any punishment for doing magic. Not even for Apparating. Seems like Mrs. Grimm's desk has indeed become a black hole, as far as Alex's magical offences are concerned. Everything just gets swallowed, and no one else notices, as long as they aren't looking for it.

    The reason for that (but not why she gets it exclusively) seems pretty clear, at least -- the Trace tells her what magic happens around Alex, and that tells her if Thorn is possibly around, when some super complex spell pops up. This might well be how she was alerted to Croatoa (the time stopping spell), although I'm not sure how the various(?) territorial(?) Trace offices work -- does Alex on the East Coast doing magic register there, or still in Chicago, since that's where she comes from? And even so, that would've been a really, really quick response.

    Quite interesting. Makes you wonder about the government structure, doesn't it? For various reasons. I think Mrs. Grimm can really get done almost anything. What surprised me was that she didn't use it. The topic of punishment didn't even come up during their talks, which was why I didn't notice it immediately. And later, when she told Alex to stop Apparating, she could've just as well used that as an angle to convince her. Instead she used Brian. Why?
     
  2. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Because its been shown time and time again that (in the Magic World at least) Alex will rebel against any punishment practically for the sake of being stubborn. The only real way to get a 'punishment' through to her is have her actions affect her friends.
     
  3. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Threatening Brian (even with something like a memory charm) is more likely to get Alex to behave than threatening her directly. Grimm probably knows that.
     
  4. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Eh, I see that, but I'm not quite sure -- wasn't Alex already at the point where they threatened to kick her out of Charmbridge and take her wand away, if she broke the underage magic law again? You'd think that threat would get her to behave as well, at least.
     
  5. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    True, good point. I guess with Alex the biggest issue isn't what will make her listen, but that nothing will. ;) She's grown on me since book1.
     
  6. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Professor

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    I'm really enjoying this. All three books (I'm holding off on the fourth) really have a magic too them, which is all too often missing from fanfiction and was one of the good things about canon. The American magical world is really well done (that's something I never thought I'd ever say) and it is equal but different to Britain without hitting the reader over the head with the 'Look at me, I'm equal but different' hammer. Perhaps most importantly, though, is you ability to move the story forward. Think of all the fan fiction which can spend chapters describing pretty much nothing. You have a real talent at moving things forwards in narration which is very similar to the canon novels.

    Character wise... Alex is interesting and well done. Her friends are less so and feel like little more than sketches at times; this is probably because Alex likes to do things alone. Still, I think it could be improved upon. The plot has some really good twists and is very original. Originally is a big thing for me and can cover a multitude of sins. Here it doesn’t need to. Pacing, ideas, foreshadowing... All good. The magic can be a little too original at time and is a bit wishy-washy mystical in some areas but that's really a personal issue, not something I'd hold against the story.

    I would say, though, that people are far to Crucio happy. It's meant to be an Unforgivable Curse but they put it on school kids as a condition of graduation and people do it to their friends? Even if Blacksburg Magery Institute is some kind of military school, which it seems to be, I find that hard to believe. Aurors also have a bit of a 'magical cop' feel to them, which is something I generally dislike in stories. They're meant to dark wizard hunters but you have things like the 'Roanoke Wizardrail Auror Authority'. Not a big issue, though.

    Overall a very solid story and very good. 4.5/5 rounding up to a straight 5/5.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  7. wolf550e

    wolf550e High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    IRL American Cops are very different from British Bobbies.

    Blacksburg is, I think, intended to be a magical version of Valley Forge.

    Agree on Crucio-happy and wishy-washy mystical magic.
     
  8. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    New chapter is up.

    I really liked that Darla's sister made an appearance -- for some reason it felt right to see her alive and well after the events of the last book.

    Nice to see some appearances by interesting characters from past books as well. Plus all the regulars are back. Archie is also growing on me -- in past books I tended to find him irritating (possibly b/c Alexandra always did) but now I begin to see him as more of a decent stepfather, all things considered.
     
  9. ASmallBundleOfToothpicks

    ASmallBundleOfToothpicks Professor

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    Yeah, people throw around Crucios like cheap candy, but the second complaint is ridiculous. If you want alternate physics pornography, go read some Jack Vance. Or some Roger Zelazny. If you need a more formalized example of how magic relates to other types of philosophies/reasoning systems, read John C. Wright.

    TL;DR: lol.


    On topic: Is Alexandra going to be the next Dark Lady? She seems to be building her own Thorn Circle. That would be freaking awesome if that's in the cards...
     
  10. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Professor

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    Not really. In the story, the dominate view of American Magical Society is that properly constructed, tested and formulated spells are a lot better than other forms of magic. Events, however, shows that this view isn't entirely true and that other forms of magic have their own places and powers. I don't think it's unreasonable to prefer stories where the first view is true, not merely thought to be true. And as I said, this is a personal view I'm not holding against the story. It can have gods, and wishing and doggerel verse and 'working one's Will' and 'doing things by that magic which is Yours' if it wants. I don't have to be overjoyed, though.

    Edit: Ancient spells based upon more mystical principles have their place in canon (the sacrifice magic which allowed Harry to survive the Killing Curse for example), but this story seems to make them a lot more mainstream and repeatable. In canon, they're strange and powerful things; in this they're another way of preforming magic. At least, that's the feel I got from it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  11. Inverarity

    Inverarity Groundskeeper

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    One of the things I deliberate over the most when plotting and writing is how far afield from canon I dare to wander. In general, I like to think of the AQ universe as "canon compatible," which means to the degree that I make stuff up, I try to make up stuff that doesn't blatantly contradict the canon universe. For example, "Powers" are my invention and arguably push the story outside of Rowling's universe... unless you take the Tales of Beedle the Bard at face value. Rowling may or may not have intended there to be a literal personified Death in her universe, but the possibility is at least implied.

    Likewise, "non-standard" magic. Rowling sticks pretty closely to the wand + Latin formula, and I don't want to break away from that willy-nilly, but she certainly implies there are other forms of magic, and magic had to exist before wizards learned how to make wands and chant in Latin. So, does introducing new magic make it a non-canon story? Up to you. Of course I'm less concerned with how closely I stick to Rowling's universe than with how well the story succeeds on its own, but I know that for all that readers enjoy seeing a new setting unexplored by Rowling, they also like feeling that Alexandra is still grounded in the same universe as Harry Potter, even if Harry's name is never mentioned.

    (This is why, when people keep telling me that I could rewrite AQ as an original series by changing all the HP names, I smile and shake my head. Yeah, I could do that, but it wouldn't be the same and it wouldn't really work.)
     
  12. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Professor

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    As I’ve said (or at least insinuated), it’s a perfectly valid interpretation of canon, if not my favourite one. I will admit, the deathly powers being more than a children’s tale gave me pause but I’ve confidence you’ll pull off something good and original. What you’ve written really is excellent and, to go back to my first point, it really picks up some of the wonder and magic from canon. That's its greatest achievement, imo.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  13. Gila

    Gila Second Year DLP Supporter

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    Over the past days I got caught reading all the three books that are complete and starting on the fourth. In a way I can see why this series is something many DLP people wouldn't like, but damn, it's still so awesome. I personally find Alex likeable enough, and I am able to empathize with her even though sometimes it does take effort. I was once an 11-year-old girl and while I'm not personally really like Alex, I can totally see her as a real person and I'm willing to forgive the less likeable parts, because the whole is still very interesting.

    Some people have mentioned that they found Dean Grimm an unbelievable character, but I didn't personally have any problems with her, mainly because I found myself looking at it as Alex's interpretation. From my own experience I can say some teachers seemed pretty much like devils when I was young, but when I look at things many years after, it's really not that black and white. Alex really does give you that sense of unfairness that can really only be experienced by fairly young children.

    What I possible like the most if the lack of clear right and wrong in the series. In Harry Potter we had a clear Voldemort is bad and the other side is good with the incompetent ministry. With Alexandra Quick it's much harder to tell who are really the bad guys here, because I can kind of see why several of the sides feel like they need to do what they are doing. At the end of the day I am really left wondering if the end can ever justify the means.

    While this does have its flaws it's 5/5 as a whole especially considering the scope of the series.
     
  14. ray243

    ray243 Seventh Year

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    The latest chapter is up.

    Seems like Alex is taking a huge risk in telling her friends the truth. I wonder how will they react to that.
     
  15. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    It's a risk but one I've been hoping she would take this year. I know that her friends being in on things won't be the same as having Max back, but it will be nice for Alex to not be working completely solo again.

    In typing this I've just realized that David is the only guy in their circle of friends. I had noted it before without it really sinking in. Interesting.

    Really looking forward to the next chapter.
     
  16. Anme

    Anme Professor

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    I really loved this chapter.
    The reaction from Alexandra to the poem Payton wrote. The herbology field trip and the method of the murder attempt. It seems logical to assume that Sonya was controlled but it'll be interesting to see the next chapter.
     
  17. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    I liked that Alex kept her wits about. Alerting the staff and preventing both from getting killed. How's that for responsibility?
     
  18. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I loved the chapter for reasons mentioned above, but it seemed too short. That happened 1-2 chapters ago as well. Despite the fact that things happen and it's enjoyable to read I just... feel like we're reading half a chapter instead of a full one.

    Still, good stuff.
     
  19. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Didn't like the latest update. The chapter was excellent as usual, writing top notch, but Alexs character took a major step backwards. She has been maturing throughout the series but this felt like.reading Thorn Circle again. Alex doing something specifically because she was told it was a Very Bad Idea.
     
  20. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Can you be more specific? I don't think you even need to worry about a spoiler tag given that it was updated several days ago now.

    I don't recall what Alex did specifically because she was told not to. I remember that she followed a girl off in Herbology class, but it was a fluid scene and wasn't in the spirit of contrariness that you imply. There was also a bit about talking to Tomo about why her faction hadn't joined, etc. She's been told to stay out of things like that, but that's the sort of thing she should look into anyway in her situation or else we wouldn't have a story.