I actually don't have a problem with saying that Shae betrayed Tyrion because she was coerced. It's incredibly likely, given what we know of the class system and Cersei.

But she betrayed him because he "threw her away?". Nonsense. This is what happens to anti-bandwagoners. You define yourself in opposition to the common thinking that you keep going further and further to completely disagree with everyone else.

Sansa was in a safe place? As a regicide? Nonsense.

Don't really care if she lied about loving Tyrion. I much preferred the mercenary arrangement from the books. No one had any illusions. Well...Tyrion did but he knew it was stupid.

 

Spoiler

I suspect this is going to be how it's going to go down in the show. And because of that, Tyrion probably isn't going to outright murder her either. She'll probably tearfully kill herself in front of him or some other ridiculousness.

I really don't care if they change her story and motivations. I'm just happy we won't have to see her around anymore.

 

Spoiler

I hope they don't change her death. I think that was one of Tyrion's moments of growth as a character. It showed not only was his father a hypocrite, but that Shae really didn't give two fucks about him. She, like every other person in the series, is just looking out for herself.

 

I don't see them having Dinklage murder a defenceless woman.

Note the distinction i made there.

 

Just gona leave this here.

 

That was bookShae though. B+W have gone to extensive lengths to convey that showShae actually loves Tyrion.

At this point, as the show continues to distinguish itself as a separate entity from the books, I find myself not really wanting them to follow Martin's character interactions and relationships.

B+W, in my opinion, do a much better job at making those relationships believable than Martin does, and I think that's because, like JKR, Martin is a storyteller, not a master of people-drama. For example: Arya/Hound interactions. Much much much better in the show.

 

I kind of get the feeling that a lot of the changes are for expediancy purposes.

Not so much that they're rushing it that maybe we're being painted a picture that'll get us to the same point the books will eventually take us, just not in fifty seasons.

Like with the Thenn, for instance. Maybe spending several episodes fleshing them out served little purpose in the grand scheme of things?

This is basically where my curiosity with the show comes from...

 

They do serve a purpose for a minor sub-plot, when Alys Karstark pops up at Castle Black, running from her uncle (I think it was her uncle, I might be misremembering) who would try to forcefully marry her. Some stuff happens at the Wall, but I remember Jon Snow arranging that Alys marry the new Magnar of Thenn, Sigorn, for the benefit of creating a new northern house/family/lordship. They do it with the Thenn because they already act as though they were like that.

Anyway, back on the subject of Shae and Tyrion, what I'm most bothered is that there was no Symon Silver Tongue in the show and thus there won't be a scene with Tyrion singing "For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm".

 

I wasn't saying they were pointless and played no part, but the writers probably know where the series is headed, and are writing accordingly.

 

If it was just one thing, or several minor issues with how they change the show in comparison to how the books did, I wouldn't complain. But it's not just one thing, it's not a small accumulation of changes that makes it all tip over. With every new change, they just muddle things, make them less than they were, less than they ought to be.

Like the replacement of Jeyne Westerling with Talisa Maegyr. Even though in my opinion marrying a daughter of Lannister bannermen was a colossally stupid mistake, in Robb's mind he had done it because after despoiling her, he had decreased her chances of finding a good match for marriage. Granted, had he had been more clever than honorable, he could have married her off to one of his own bannermen and be done with her.

But in the show, who is Talisa? Why would she warrant that Robb break his promise to wed one of the Frey girls? What, a child of Volantis nobles? That means absolutely nothing in Westeros. Nothing. She never had any promising matches to start with, seeing as she had no official standing whatsoever.

So instead of the honor angle, they play the 'suddenly fall in love' spiel. It honest to god was revolting to watch the whole thing playing out. Thankfully, she'd been disposed of at the Red Wedding, so there's that at least, some small mercy.

 

Ultimately, none of that will probably matter at all in regards to the plot.

They can mess with a lot of the minutiae - probably because it makes it less complicated? Who knows - and end up on the same track.

 

From this point on, I think you just have to go into each new episode with the knowledge that this is no longer ASOIAF adapted to television. It is now a television series based on ASOIAF; that Benioff and Weiss are telling the same essential story, but that they're going to do it their way.

 

And probably not over the course of a quarter of a century.

 

I wonder how that will go about. Will the show start spoiling the books? Because unless Martin releases TWOW later this year or early in the next, we're going to see stuff we never read about.

Presuming they don't extend the length of Daenerys' stay in Meereen. I hope they haven't done all the supplicant scenes yet, as there's a few notable ones described in the books, one of them being of such grand irony. Here, I'll paste it in a spoiler for people who are curious:

Spoiler

A rich woman came, whose husband and sons had died defending the city walls. During the sack she had fled to her brother in fear. When she returned, she found her house had been turned into a brothel. The whores had bedecked themselves in her jewels and clothes. She wanted her house back, and her jewels. “They can keep the clothes,” she allowed. Dany granted her the jewels but ruled the house was lost when she abandoned it.

 

Seems too subtle for the general audience to grasp the irony of it. People tend to read things at face value, at least my family that watches the show but hasn't read the book does.

I almost headbutted my cousin when he said 'I read too much into everything' when I tried to explain some of the intricacies of the characters' personalities.

Speaking of irony, it'll be just that if that situation comes to pass, and it's the people who've watched the show and not read the books that are trying to not spoil. Or are the ones spoiling...

 

This is the exact sort of thinking that leads to the dumbing down of entertainment in America.

Besides, there are a ton of people who read into the nuance of fiction, I'm sure you can find them on forums and/or reviews.

The worst thing about this mentality is not the patronizing (if distressingly accurate at times) view of people, it's the idea that you shouldn't put it in if some people don't get it. So what? It's not like it's a huge scene. It's probably not the most subtle thing that's ever been on the show. Some will understand, others won't. Everyone wins.

Basically: fuck the layman. We're all laymen in some degree and works shouldn't be completely impenetrable but we don't have to actively help people be lazy.

 

Next time headbutt your cousin. If he doesn't read into that, then screw it, he's an idiot.
I got into relatively frank discussion with a friend who read the books after season 2 or 3 and he said he was such of everyone who wanted to explain it to him. When he just wanted to watch done good drama. So the other side of it is that it's not so much as being dumbed down, as much as it is being kept relevant as a show. As opposed to an epic length story in such an extensively detailed world. It's hard to imagine from my point of view, as someone who has read the books, how confusing or in depth GoT would be if I hadn't.
It may be that it isn't dumbed down. It's focused.

But in my opinion, it's just simplified..

 

anyone want to clarify what Varys glance to the throne meant?

 

That he's a Blackfyre supporter.

 

He thought he heard Joffrey snickering.