This is a classic case of a sneaky Mary Sue. You say that a Sue is defined as someone who always has her way, but that's not how I view them. Basically what this story does is part-plot exploration, part wish-fulfillment.

Wish-fulfillment (which goes hand in hand with the concept of SI) does not necessarily mean having a godlike character. Simply being there, being given the chance to train up to Jounin by age 15, romance Kakashi, learn the Hiraishin, fight all those people and influence all those others, is in itself wish-fulfillment. By having the SI integrate itself so deeply into the Naruto narrative, and molding her into what she wishes she could be but at the same time trying to present it in a realistic way. It still remains wish-fulfillment that actually derails the canon protagonist's achievements and importance to lend credence to the SI.


tl;dr: Good writers can write SI and Mary Sues. They are still shit concepts, and it's not because of the technical writing.

 

See, I don't get either of your attitudes at all. You're acting as though the author should stick to canon no matter the story that has built up before it. In this story Naruto doesn't have sage mode and he doesn't have complete control over the Kyuubi's chakra. If Naruto went to fight Pein at that point he'd have been stomped into the ground just like everyone else. So why should he turn up to the fight when he has his own battle to work on? It's not as though he's standing around like a muppet every time he's off screen.

On top of that, this isn't Naruto's story. I can't emphasise that enough; this is Aiko's story in the Naruto world. While she isn't the prophesied child she is the main character of this fic and as such we should expect to see her play an important role in it. Your major complaints so far have been that she's derailing the canon plot in favour of herself, but I don't see it that way.

I see it as her influence on the Naruto world having altered it to the extent where canon is only tangentially related to it. That's pointed out in story as well; her foreknowledge becomes more and more obsolete as the story goes on, serving mostly as a guide for important characters rather than important plot points. This is exactly what we expect from a time travel/dimension hopping fic so why is it being used as an attack here?

 

The only reason the story is being attacked is because it comes off as a Mary-Sue tale. It depowers the canon characters to give the OC more importance. So yes I have a problem with that. But its a pet peeve of mine. I just gave reasons as to why I don't like the story, which happen to be the same reasons why you do like the story.
To each their own I guess.

 

One of my main reasons for avoiding OC Centric Fics in the Naruto fandom is because the setting does not lend itself to stories other than crappy romances, wish fulfillment, or crack. It diminishes the canon characters who are much more relevant. In some fandoms I find OCs tolerable or even preferred at times (mass effect), but Naruto has a ton of characters who could use good stories.

 

I honestly can't take self-inserts seriously. The idea is just so stupid and contrived. I don't want to read about the damn author writing some kind of bizarre wish-fulfillment, no matter how well written. I want to read about the main character(s) I actually care about. Can OC's be interesting? Sure, but they should never supplant, or regularly outshine the MC.

 

I was wondering if there were any new crazy!naruto stories

 

I guess the question should be, how does Aiko compare to the SI of Dreaming of Sunshine?

If its handled just as well as that fic then I'll be willing to give it a shot.

 

It's not about sticking to canon. Who gives a shit about that? It's about not taking away from the main character(s) of the canon in order to boost your OC. It's got to be TREMENDOUSLY good writing to pull that off without leaving me sour afterwards.

I don't mind OC major protagonists even as viewpoint characters and I don't even mind self-insert. But do I want to slog through 700,000 words of a story that's taking away from some of Naruto's greatest feats and giving them to an OC protagonist??? Better be some DAMN GOOD writing.

If you're going to grant your OC that big an impact, you either need to have something go drastically wrong or else mix it up completely.




I've thought about doing a Videogame!Naruto fic. My idea would be that I'm playing "as Naruto."

Chapter 1: Mizuki tries to trick me into stealing the Forbidden Scroll. Seen this shit before, copy canon. Iruka finds me first, yeah yeah, get to the part where I use Kage Bunshin to save the day. GAME OVER. Iruka stabs me in the back with a kunai.

I like Dreaming of Sunshine (although I blame it for kicking off the SI trend) and there's at least one other SI fic I've been reading as a guilty pleasure, but the SI story I really want to read is like I said -- things AREN'T canon and using canon knowledge the wrong way WILL KILL YOU.

 

So has anybody come across a story of note recently or are we just gonna continue this pissing contest? I'm craving something semi-decent to read.

 

Discussion of what actually constitutes a good story to someone is perfectly valid considering it's centering around a story that's actually been recced in the thread.

The debate would also work in a For Review thread, but apparently the story is controversial enough not to have a recommendation in a proper library thread. That makes this a good place to debate it.

Do try not to be TOO bitchy about threads going off the rails, especially when they're not, really.

On Topic: I'm throwing my lot in with Rep and the others, with a bit of something else. When we first start reading the story, it is very much a tale about Aiko AND Naruto. That makes it far more tolerable that she's an OC SI. Mostly because it's written fairly well. What changes is that Aiko continues in her importance in the story.. and Naruto doesn't, really. Oh, sure, he's off 'doing his own thing', but 'doing his own thing' consists of lagging behind where he is in canon while Aiko gets cool shit that folks normally see as reserved for Naruto. Naruto, you say, doesn't have either Sage Mode OR control over Kurama's chakra, meaning he's drastically weaker than canon and most likely weaker than Aiko.

That's Not Okay. He's the MC of the entire series universe, lessening him to make your wish-fullfilment vehicle more awesome and more important is not alright, especially when he begins to be less and less involved with the story as it progresses.

At the point I stopped reading, he's basically a Secondary Character, something I and others don't rightfully care for. When he was part of a pair of MCs, it was different, but that's not the case any more from everything I've read. I don't really give a shit about what's happening to Aiko when it has little to do with him and is instead centered around her little adventure in Ninja Land where she interacts with and deeply changes the lives of important people in the universe.

Just.. no.

This is Naruto fanfiction, not OC SI fanfiction. That means most folks want to read about Naruto in some form or another. When he isn't a primary motivator behind the story, and has in fact been weakened considerably from Canon, there are valid reasons to not want to read and to dislike the very concept of the story.

Also:

Spoiler

SAKURA IS FUCKING DEAD, WHAT?! No! Fuck no! No with the power of a thousand burning suns. Some people may not like the pinkette, but I do, and seeing her treated like so much trash to be sacrificed in the name of an OC SI is far, far beyond acceptable. That's not just a nail in the coffin for my interest in the story, that's a heaping mound of grave dirt thrown over it.

@Quick Ben:

It's not handled as well as Dreaming of Sunshine, no. But it IS a good and fun read for quite a bit of it to start. Whether it remains that way is up for debate depending on your tolerance of SIs and who exactly remains important to the story.

 

It doesn't suck but its nothing great either. Personally I can't get over the fact how irrelevant the author left Naruto.
'Cause in my book the one thing worse than an overpowered main character is an underpowered one and the one thing more unforgivable than a Mary-Sue main character is a Mary-Sue original character and the author has managed to do both.

One of the reasons for this pissing contest is because there is nothing decent to read. But I'll drop a bone, see what you make of it.
I'm not sure if this fic has been discussed yet. Its nothing special but a good time-waster.
https://m.fanfiction.net/s/10857388/1/I-Am-NOT-Going-Through-Puberty-Again
Its a crack time-travel fic. The only kind of time-travel fics I bother with these days.

 

Nope. About those specific plot points...

Spoiler

Pein gives up because he's lost too many paths. She happens to die killing one, but he actually loses to Jiraiya, Tsunade, and the Sandaime.

I don't get what your point about her being in the book as one is - I don't recall that scene specifically, but even if she is listed as one...she isn't. She can't fight like one. And the situations where she tried ended with her being curbstomped.

She escaped from Saorsi with the Hiraishin - nobody knew she had it at that point, so as soon as the drugs wore off she just popped away. Pretty straightforward - it's not like she was anywhere near strong enough to fight him.

The more general complaint about original characters...I still find odd. It flat out says on the tin that the main character here is the OC. It's centered on her, and her exploits. Now, if you can't possible withstand that - alright. You're missing out on this, Dreaming of Sunshine, and so on.

I personally didn't find any canon character to have been detracted from. The only feat anyone "lost" was Naruto not being present for the Pein battle (because he was in another country, where they were fighting the rest of Akatsuki at the time) and Sakura vs Sasori (since she was dead by then).

Was the battle for Pein one of Naruto's greatest feats in canon? Yes. But it wouldn't have made sense here at all. Pein was already fighting Tsunade, Jiraiya, and the Sandaime, because of the way things had changed. Having Naruto there wouldn't have made it the same feat as canon anyways.

 

@Crimson: That fic was already recommended. Out of the Unknown was also recced, but does anyone know of any decent naruto fics that includes a similar premise of Naruto escaping Konoha?

 

I have already admitted I'm prejudiced when it comes to the concept. About the S-rank I read the AO3 version, I think it was during one of the summits where its mentioned.
I agree with everything you've said and its precisely because of those reasons I can't bring myself to like it. Her presence doesn't make Naruto better it made him weaker by taking away his motivations to get stronger.
Also it doesn't help when throughout the story she remains superior to him and if I'm not mistaken

Spoiler

Doesn't she have a rinnegan in the sequel?

I can't tolerate that boost on Naruto so you can understand my feelings on the matter.
As a matter of fact I did read Dreaming of Sunshine. Not overly fond of it either, but till what I read it kept Naruto on par with the OC at least.

 

The same author has a non crack fic that I don't think has been posted here yet and is decent.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10759250/1/Unbiased

Summary: Fairness is a nice idea, but tricky to actually work out in practice. Tsunade, however, at least intends to give credit where credit is due. Set before the Sasuke Retrieval arc.

 

Spoiler

Yeah. I'd say Sakura's is actually depicted a bit better than she is in canon, part of that being that Aiko made them train more than Kakashi did. So she tries to get in Orochimaru's way in the Forest, and without a bijuu in her gut or eye hax for him to lust over, he just snaps her neck. Pretty big deal for the team, obviously.

I wouldn't say it made way for Aiko though. It's not like she is part of that team dynamic at that point - if anything, it made way for Karin.

This is a pretty much a perfect summation. That said, I'm also taking away from this conversation that had the story been about "Naruko" from the get go instead of Naruto's OC sister, there would be far fewer complaints about how things progressed. Accurate?


Though really, if we want to talk about them in more general terms, I don't get the point of SI's at all. Silver Queen is the only author I have read where being an SI contributed to a piece meaningfully - an OC without the added bullshit that weighs on the story from being an SI seems like it would be better in pretty much every circumstance.

 

Dreaming of Sunshine would have worked just as well if not better by just being an OC instead of an SI.

As for good SI stories: Reincarnation Roulette by the same authoer as DoS is pretty awesome.

 

Not if Naruko's presence meant rendering Naruto obsolete.

---------- Post automerged at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 AM ----------

Imagine my surprise finding this one while debating OC centric fics. I remember reading this a long time ago, so I'm not quite sure how it has aged. But I enjoyed it then and it serves as an example of how even OC centric fics can work without them replacing the main character.

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/6278468/1/Aberration

 

See, now that I know that Sakura is fuckin dead, I'm actually tempted to read it, if only up to that point.

 

You suck armadillo balls.

In any case, I'll probably stay away from the SI. I started to read 'Dreaming of Sunshine' once, since it came so highly recommended, but I couldn't really get into it. The writing was quite good, but I need me some Naruto as MC.

By the way, we need far more awesome!Hiruzen stories.