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A Memory of Light ( Random ideas and concepts to help us wait for it to come out)

Discussion in 'Books and Anime Discussion' started by syed, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. syed

    syed Supermod

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    I am starting this thread so i can talk aout WOT ideas with other fans, either for the next book or just the future in Randland.

    I wonder if the Ways have been cleared up some what, both the taint and Aridhol destroyed, much of what could have corrupted the ways is gone. The only things left is the fact some gates may be affected by the blight, or the fact that the Ruby Dagger still exists. I am thinking that dagger will really hurt the shadow in the new book. What would its reaction be to the so called true power?

    I dont know if the Ways link the other continets, but the portal stones do, so potentially trollocs could be invading in Seanchan, Shara and the land of mad men, they might even reach some sea folk islands.

    Rand will be able to force the Seanchan to a peace by threatening their command of the damane, help them find a new path where all that could channel can be better integrated into the empire. Like the death watch guard, those that can channel woul be property of the empress, they need the forces and numbers to reconquer the main empire, also since shara is in chaos, be valuable region to aquire and somewhat easier. I wonder if there will be another attempt to use the world of dream, but this time to find objects that can bind a channeler to their oaths, the binding rods and chairs.

    Will the tinkers go to the city of the wastes? To walk through the columns, seeing memories from their ancestors, of the song they search for.
     
  2. Moridin

    Moridin Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    The ways were corrupted by the creation of the Machin Shin, so it's entirely possible that either the Wind collapsed without the taint to support it, or the taint was just a catalyst that led to the creation of the Machin Shin which is now a separate entity.

    In the first case, the Ways will now be safe to walk, in the second, not so. I don't believe there is sufficient evidence to assert anything one way or the other.

    Personally, I prefer the idea that the taint gave birth to, but does not sustain, Machin Shin, and that it still roams the Ways.

    I also think it would be doubtful that the Ways would extend beyond the main continent. They were created by the Aes Sedai after the Breaking of the World, and I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that those Aes Sedai were aware of the existence of Seanchan. Portal Stones were of an earlier time, created by some other peoples, who potentially knew of Seanchan, so they link them. Of course, it's possible that the Ways link to Seanchan simply because they were created by studying the Portal Stones, which do.

    How do you mean, 'threatening their command of the damane'? Do you mean revealing the big secret about sul'dame being able to channel? That would cause a great uproar if he could find a way to prove it, so he could ostensibly blackmail Tuon into peace by threatening to do so, I suppose. It's highly unlikely, though, that a radical reform of the Seanchan way of life will take place - that sort of things seems like it would take generations to really have an effect.
     
  3. syed

    syed Supermod

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    The ways were created by Crazy mad men, so it is possible they travelled to other continets and grew gates. The reson why no one knows it as no one ever tried to go out an unknown gate. Do they even work over oceans, they probally do, but range could still be an issue. I know from the guide the male aes sedai did go to the land of mad men, and there are ogier in Seanchan. Do te ways extend to shara, are there even ogier there.

    The black wind is a creature of darkness and death, so what will happen if with the taint gone, the Ways are once again filled with light and life, could it even surive.

    The rumors that sul'dam are damane, would be enough. There is only one way to dispel the rumors, as people will test them just to see. Then they will remember the empress is a sul'dam, so to plenty of nobles it would be an opportunity to take power out of her hands. So tuon has to activly help nudge the empire to a new path. That is why avienda has those visions about needing to keep her alive. If she lives, the ruling family of the empire will be able to channel, so less chance of all channelers being collared. Of course such change would take years, but it likly starts with channelers being high level property of empire, those people have their own minds and have families.
     
  4. Moridin

    Moridin Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    Entirely possible that there are Ways to other continents, I suppose.

    I haven't seen any indication that the removal of the taint repaired the Ways, though. It's entirely possible that the effect of the taint on the ways wasn't infecting them so much as breaking them. I.e. removing the taint allows for them to be fixed, but isn't sufficient for it to happen by itself.

    You make a good point about Seanchan politics being used to force them to recognise channelers, but again, Tuon responds to this in one of the books - essentially, she acknowledges that she can channel, but asserts that she 'chooses' not to, just as she chooses not to commit murder. Whereas those who channel instinctively i.e. wilders, would still be a threat. It would be simple enough to justify their way of life in such a way, especially with some deft political touches that we know Tuon is capable of.
     
  5. syed

    syed Supermod

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    If new ways are grown would it allow for the system to heal, by providing fresh power or energy to flush the system.

    The thing is for tuon enemies, her being collared is great so will activly try and make it so. they dont care about the system, they want her off the throne.
     
  6. Moridin

    Moridin Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    Let's not forget that the politics is a major part only of the upper echelons of society - a large part of the Seanchan Empire is devoted to the Empress, and is likely to accept her word over that of her enemies, even (perhaps especially) on such a controversial matter such as this.

    And let's not forget that she is the last surviving remnant of the Imperial line, IIRC. That would put a lot of the more honourable nobles and military personnel on her side.

    Edit: To get back to the original point (Rand blackmailing her), while the revelation that sul'dame can channel would be harmful to Tuon, her brokering a peace with the Dragon Reborn with no discernable reason why (especially in the wake of their successful attack on the White Tower) would hurt her far more, especially among the military which would be the one group she should be working to make her primary support base, given the chaos engulfing the Seanchan Empire.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  7. syed

    syed Supermod

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    If she finds away to slowly remove the leash, she would be richly rewarded. As it stands, her channelers can not use angreal or enter into to links, so likly retricted in the use of some ter'angreal. Also if channelers were more accepted, it would be easier to convince countries to join to the empire. THe empire has power and resources that would be attractive to many nations.
    A temporary truce would be great, as it would allow Tuon to use travelling to retake her empire, as well as to search for potential male channelers she can now leash. ALso shara is in choas, an opportunity to seize an empire and another foothold on this land, complete her ancestors dream.
    WHen Rand seals the bore, will he use both male and female sides of the power, or will he augement them with the true power. THat way using the power of the dark one, he can hope to avoid the tainting happening again.
    WHo is demondrad? Big question in the book series, best guess is that he is the king of murandy. When dealt with, who do you think would get the region, andor, the empire or would some else get the throne.
    Could the Black Wind be harmed by the Ruby Dagger, what would happen if it interacted with Fain again? They are able to manipulate fades and darkfriends, so what would it do to a creation of the taint.
    THere is a trolloc attack on camelyn using the way gate, when the queen just happens to have a talisman of growing. THe taint has been cleared so what could be happen if they were used.
    For the meeting, did egwene carry the sa'angreal wand, that combined with callador and the bracelet, would mean the circle of three would be increadibly powerful.
     
  8. Moridin

    Moridin Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    Supporting the cause of channelers would endear her to the countries here, but wouldn't remove the main issue most nations have with entering the Seanchan Empire, which is loss of sovereignty. And it would erode most, if not all, of her support base among the more conservative factions of the military, commoners and nobles.

    Yeah, Seanchan is in complete shambles right now, but I think Tuon will be focusing on the main continent simply because she still believes the Dragon Reborn needs to kneel before the Empress for the Last Battle to be won. That would in her mind be a more pressing issue.

    If he seals the bore using the power of the Dark One, that may well give the Dark One a foothold and allow him to rip the bore apart on his own. Maybe not immediately, but over time. It was implied that the sealing, while dangerous, could have worked without tainting if both saidin and saidar had been used - it was the use of saidin only that made the sealing shoddy and incomplete, and allowed the taint to be placed.

    Best guess for Demandred so far is Roedran, but I can't help feeling that an egomaniac like Demandred would go for something more high profile. Look at the others. Sammael in Illian, Be'lal in Tear, Semirhage in Seandar - they all inserted themselves into large, powerful empires. By contrast, Murandy is small and relatively unimportant. But yeah, the best fit for Demandred (assuming he isn't hidden as a woman) is Roedran, true. And given Rand's previous MO, I'd say whoever helped him overthrow Demandred would get the throne.

    Machin Shin fled for a reason, I think. I'm not sure if it could be harmed by the dagger, or whether it was simply repulsed by the mind of a being so evil, even it couldn't touch him.

    As for your other two, I don't remember, I'd have to reread the books.
     
  9. syed

    syed Supermod

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    If the ways begin to lighten once more the BW would need an escape, due to its nature it would never survive in a place of contant light. We know the Dagger man has used the ways, next time he uses it would the Black WInd seek a host to carry it beyond the ways. ONly something as corrupted as it self would do, as it never been able to do so after all these years, so the dagger man is its only escape.
     
  10. Lamora

    Lamora Definitely Not Batman

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    The main thing I'm looking forward to is the Rand-Moiraine reunion, and the epic Dragon brick that he will shit when the first name on his dead woman list disappears, causing the rest of them to disappear in some sort of revelation sequence (I am assuming).

    Otherwise, I'm looking forward to Perrin dying, which the Great Lord has promised me in his Shadow Prophecies:awesome. Goddamn if he isn't the most annoying ta'veren of the trio. I'm looking forward to Aviendha getting back so she can start giving the future of Aiel the finger and start going beyond the impossible to change it. And I'm looking forward to the March of the Ents, Ogier-Style remix, which Loial has probably pulled off according to that one badass quote section I can't be arsed to find.

    And Mat. So much more Mat. Sanderson has taken his fading aura of coolness and injected it with straight-line character cocaine. He hasn't been this awesome since Shadow Rising.
     
  11. Moridin

    Moridin Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    Mat is awesome. He is, hands down, the most fun character to read in the books, and just keeps getting more and more epic.

    I mean, goddamn, woman, it's just boots.

    Perrin is annoying as hell, yeah. But it looks more and more like Rand is going to be the one to die in the final battle.

    Rand-Moiraine is going to be epic. I just hope Moiraine doesn't become some sappy little hanger-on, that she still continues to epically bitchslap everybody around her with little effort.

    And given that Machin Shin has already fled from Fain, I don't see it trying to tussle with him and carry a ride out of there. Remember, the evil of Aridhol is as opposed to the Shadow as it is to the Light. The dagger wouldn't take kindly to this twisted creature of the taint trying to hitch itself onto its host. The corruption is of a diametrically opposite nature.
     
  12. syed

    syed Supermod

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    Fain was already corrupted by the shadow when he entered mordeth, for some reason the darkness combined.

    At one point the black wind recognised fain as something familiar to it self.
     
  13. Moridin

    Moridin Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    Familiar, yet different. I'll hunt up the quote by Moiraine, but it's clear that Machin Shin fled from him, and I don't see any reason why it would act differently (unless the destruction of Aridhol has weakened Mordeth's influence on Fain).
     
  14. Bill Door

    Bill Door The Chosen One DLP Supporter

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    Since the trollocs are attacking everywhere else, like in Andor and the borderlands, would it not make sense for them to attack in the lands held by the Seanchan. I think that this will cause Tuon to realise that the last battle is the most important thing going on and Mat will convince her to support Rand.

    It's unlikely that Demandred is the king of Murandy. At the start of Fires of Heaven there is a meeting of Lanfear, Rahvin, Sammael and Graendal, and when Lanfear was asked why it was those three, she said it was because they had been the ones to carve out their own lands. Given that she didn't include Demandred he's probably not a king.

    As for the ways they won't reach the other continents because they were grown by the ogiers only to places that they knew. They have to bring the talisman of growing to the new waygate to create one. Machin shin probably thought that fain was the only thing more fucked up than it was so it just left him alone.

    With regards to seanchan politics, Tuon can probably do whatever the hell she wants. No one on this side of the ocean has the power to challenge her and the other side is in chaos. By the time that is sorted out she can probably make whatever changes she wants to the damane.
     
  15. syed

    syed Supermod

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    There were multiple talismans of growing, but what if one of the male channelers traveled to another continet and grew more there. WIth the Breaking happening, having a means to travel continets, would be good thing to to happen, so might have been planed to occur. THe thing is no one ever explored the ways, simply relied on directions.

    THere aree two other locations for Demandrad is the land of Madmen and shara, we know very little of what is happening here, he could have conquered the regions into obediance.

    Mat will likly be the thing to bind them, he will be a general to command their force. COnvince her that this return is enough and they should concentrate on the empire proper. We know Rand will attempt a peace treaty just for the last battle, so it is likly.
     
  16. Moridin

    Moridin Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    Demandred also likes working through proxies, of course. There are suggestions that he is behind Taim, and Roedran could also be his puppet. Most importantly, though, we have not seen Demandred by the events of Knife of Dreams, which narrows down who he could be. Also, in Gathering Storm, it states that he is "gathering for war" and his "rule is secure" - and we know that Roedran was gathering troops to quell internal strife, and even used the Band to this effect.

    And I agree that Tuon probably has the clout to start forcing through some reforms regarding damane, if she plays the field well - though it would still lead to some resentment and loss of support. My point is that she has shown no desire to reform anything, except perhaps bettering their living standards, and that stemmed from well before the reveal regarding sul'dame and channeling.
     
  17. syed

    syed Supermod

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    All tuon need do is get an oath rod, and show how it is better than the collar, also that it would allow their number of channelrs to grow. Sul'dam always greatly out numbered the leashed.
    WHat would a Seanchan channeling oath be, or would it have to be 3?
     
  18. frodrick

    frodrick Slug Club Member

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    The Oath Rod works with any Oath. The Three are just tradition (and are essentially useless, anyway).

    The problem is that this is the last book. After it ends, the series is done (the main plotline, at least). And the Last Battle itself is probably going to take up at least a good quarter of the book.

    Therefore, long-lasting, radical reform-of any sort, really, is probably not going to be happening. The damane are probably not going to be freed, and preparations for After the Last Battle are going to be slapdash at best, because everyone with a brain has realized that unless they start focusing on the Last Battle, they're all going to die and render whatever pet projects they have are going down.

    If this is chess, the last book is (very) late-midgame to endgame. There really isn't time for much more to happen but cross your fingers, hope your plans that you've set in motion are going to hold together, and trust you have better board position at this time. Because you aren't going to be able to make any other long-term strategies at this point.
     
  19. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Plus, the Prophecies of the Dragon warn that Rand will Break the World again. Not much point in making plans if the world around you is going to be destroyed.
     
  20. Bill Door

    Bill Door The Chosen One DLP Supporter

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    The prophecies say a lot of things in a very vague and circular way. It could be argued that Rand has already broken the world by causing war all across the continent.

    I think that the last book will be about half before and half after the last battle. It isn't the type of series where they leave a lot of things hanging. They will probably clear up a lot of things like the damane, and show the state of the world a few years later.
     
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