I feel like this conversation lost me a while ago. What is happening with the Whitewalkers? Is that Lord Commander --> White Walker thing you guys have been implying a popular fan theory in line of R+L=J thing? If so, can you link me a page that explains it in more detail? If it's canon/something from the books, my reading comprehension must have eroded badly...

 

I'm not sure about a theory but there is a story that the 13th Lord Commander took an Other for a wife and proclaimed himself the Night's King (It's in Bran's chapter at the Night Fort I think). The Stark in Winterfell and the King beyond the wall joined forces and beat him, but apparently he managed to become an other according to the show. (He may have been a Stark or a Stark bastard).

There is also the story of the last hero who went to the lands of always winter with his twelve companions so that's another possible identity for the spiky Other.

 

Ahh cheers, I do remember that, just didn't connect the dots. And the earlier speculation in this thread about the potential hotness of the White Walkers and that the apocalypse may be resolved with another human-White Walker marriage? Is that a fan theory because of what happened with the 13th Lord Commander?

 

This is the theory I was referring to: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/23p48r/the_true_nature_and_purpose_of_the_others_and_the/

The theory is that humanity and the Others had a treaty which humans have forgotten but the Others haven't. The wall is as much to keep humans out of the north as the Others out of the south. In the early days of the Watch, the treaty was remembered, and it was sealed in marriage. But something involving the Night's King happened to make humans want to renege on this and the Watch was rearranged and the treaty forgotten.

 

Since GoT ages are rather fluid it only matter how old he appears to the audience. And since almost nobody is saying anything bad about these scenes (at least I didn't read any complains), he's old enough.

One more observations about the revelations about the Others. After it I'm almost convinced that GRRM doesn't care or cares very little if the show will be first to finish his story. It's his anyway, no matter the medium, and he will finish his personal version of it when it suits him. There was a matter of books fans, but with a lack of outrage over it (once again I could miss it since the Internet is a rather big place) it appears that TV show can overtake books without much complains.

 

I understand what you are saying, and I agree. I'll skip the discussion about what consent really is, and say that yes, what we saw would be classified as rape by our society, and probably GOT society as well. What I think the disconnect is, is that neither Jaime or Cercei saw it as rape. Cercei certainly didnt act like she had been raped in the scene in episode 4 where she told him to guard Tommen with more men. There wasn't any fear or anger or anything really. She didn't seem like a woman talking to her rapist.

 

If HBO shows spoilers like this for the white walkers, Im thinking we might see another R+L=J hint this season

 

Then what was the point of changing the scene in the first place? They changed an obviously consensual act into one 99% would (and did) say "yeah that was rape" to. Trying to argue about different societies perception doesn't really mean much when the point that they changed a consensual act into rape for nothing but shock value and to further whitewash Cersei is still completely valid.

 

You are partially mistaken. Interviews with the directors and commentary from the showrunners have indicated that the scene was meant to "start as forceful, and end as consensual." Rewatching it, I see the things they tried to put in, like Cersei grabbing at Jaimie with her legs wrapped around him (it's there), or pulling at his shirt towards herself. THAT BEING SAID, considering I missed it the first two times I watched the episode, that tells me it's a failure of production, editing, and direction.

Continuing on from there, I'd call the whole thing an example of rape between people that know each other. In the book, it's more clear that although Cersei isn't into it, she changes her mind during the act. That's still rape, though, even if contextually they may not have thought of it that way, because Cersei: "Jaime couldn't rape me, because it's us." and vice versa.

That much is more like my opinion though.

 

So what sort of things do you think we can expect to see in tonight's episode?

 

Think they will have a Tommen and Maegery (sp) scene with Cersei releasing that she mustve spoken to him when she wasnt around.

 

This episode, holy shit amounts of awesome.

Spoiler

Best moment by far was when Robyn mentioned the Lannisters killing his father and Lysa gave Petyr a little look

 

I'll miss the Locke character. He was entertainingly slimy.

 

Watching ep 5 online right now. Fucking Lysa. She reminds me of one of the background girls in any high school movie who's all grown up and now is super bitter about everything.

And for some reason the Ghost part at the end reminded me of Brian from Family Guy going "RAH RAH RAH!" barking at everything.

 

Spoiler

Definitely part of the books Littlefinger had her do it, hence Varys saying someone who owed everything to Jon killed him.

As an aside, was that an admission that Sweet Robin isn't Jon Arryn's child?

 

@CheddarTrek:

This is a direct quote from ASoS that should answer your question:

Spoiler

“Tears, tears, tears,” she sobbed hysterically. “No need for tears… but that’s not what you said in King’s Landing. You told me to put the tears in Jon’s wine, and I did. For Robert, and for us!

 

It would be funny if Robert wasn't even an Arryn. Seems to be a pattern with crazy moms and bastards.

Odran: Your avatar is seriously creepy. I feel like i'm about to be flayed... /itotallyknowwhoheis

 

Spoiler

Wouldn't surprise me... and if he is, Littlefinger surely knows. Makes sense too. I thought it weird that Littlefinger would look so at ease hugging the little weirdo.