A Song of Ice and Fire by George RR Martin [Spoilers]

KHAAAAAAAN!! · Sep 26, 2015

abhi1012 said: ↑

Maybe he will be a ghost. ; )
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Cal · Sep 26, 2015

Celestin said: ↑

A major spoiler for season 6 and book 6. Though I doubt people will manage to avoid that one.
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Was it ever seriously considered that he wouldn`t reappear in book 6? I mean, I get it with the Tv show, where writers can go in any sucky direction (Sansa and Stannis in season 5 was proof enough of that), but for GRRM it would be just uncharacteristically bad writing.

Myduraz · Sep 26, 2015

Celestin said: ↑

A major spoiler for season 6 and book 6. Though I doubt people will manage to avoid that one.
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I'm actually not sure why but I never doubted thathe would indeed be back. By now I can't even recall if the books insinuates it or just something I extrapolated. That said, however despicable paparazzi may be - how hard is it to land a photo that confirms it?

The Reader · Sep 27, 2015

It is insinuated:

The prologue of book 5 has Varamyr Sixskins warg into his wolf when his human body dies. And the last word Jon speaks is, "Ghost."

Ash · Sep 30, 2015

New post from WotW, spoilers for season 6:

Shitty photos of them filming the Tower of Joy scene.

Looking forward to seeing who they cast for these roles.

klauth · Sep 30, 2015

Maybe we'll get lucky and Sean Bean will come back for an episode as Ned. It will be more interesting to see who they pick for Lyanna and the other characters there, like Howland Reed.

KHAAAAAAAN!! · Sep 30, 2015

I think Beanomir is a little too old to play a char younger than 30.

Starwind · Oct 6, 2015

Be interesting if the first episode basically spoiled the Tower of Joy mystery tho.

KHAAAAAAAN!! · Oct 6, 2015

Unless B+W know when Winds is going to drop and in it GRRM reveals Jon's parentage, I doubt it will spoil anything. They're pretty good at being deliberately obtuse.

Skeletaure · Oct 6, 2015

I think the Tower of Joy will set up the "R + L = J" stuff rather than resolve it. Right now in the show there hasn't been anything about it and they need to quickly build up the mystery.

Starwind · Oct 6, 2015

Yeah, there was some stuff in the first few seasons about Jon not knowing who his mother was, but no other hints what so ever.

So I think a pregnant Lyanna scene could set it up well enough.

Celestin · Oct 6, 2015

Personally, I expect them to set up and resolve the mystery of Jon's parentage within one season. Whether or not the Tower of Joy scene will reveal it depends in which episode it's going to happen.

ArthurKingOfTheBritons · Oct 12, 2015

GOT ending predictions- potential spoiler alert

I think that in the end the Starks will retake the north. The kingdom of Westeros as a whole will fall to the sparrows and there will be anarchy and enter kingdom fighting until Danaerys final makes here way over to the kingdom and conquers it, after conquering the rest of the slacking nations of Essos first. Jon Snow will be brought back to life by Melisandre, and he will be revealed to be the bastard child of Brendan Stark, and he will repel the others and will then take over the north. Oh and Arya kills cersei in the end.

Republic · Oct 12, 2015

Pretty sure there's a thread for that mate.

Also, I think you've somehow managed to miss the entire point of GoT/ASOIAF so far, which is ... frankly astounding.

KHAAAAAAAN!! · Oct 12, 2015

ArthurKingOfTheBritons said: ↑

snip
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"Tell it to me straight, doc. How bad is it?"

"I'm... I'm afraid it's.... blind optimism."

"No. No! That can't be true. I fail to see positive outcomes on a daily basis!"

"Yes, well, hope can sneak up on the best of us."

"I... I don't understand. How did this happen to me?"

"I understand your frustration, son, but look on the bright side. We know far more about optimism than we did twenty or even ten years ago. We have treatments now."

"Treatments?"

"Yes of course. We'll start you off on the collective works of George R. R. Martin... just to really drive home the idea that life is a pile of shit. It starts shit and it'll end shit, with lots of shit in between. If you don't respond, we can discuss other more invasive treatment options down the line, but I don't see that happening. About 90% of my optimistic patients make a full recovery with Martin alone."

"Wow. That's good news. I can't tell you how relieved I feel. Thank you."

"No need to thank me, son. It's my job to help you stay cynical."

Celestin · Nov 23, 2015

The hype begins.

Seratin · Nov 23, 2015

Give me a fucking book already. D:

KHAAAAAAAN!! · Jan 2, 2016

GRRM has spent the whole day blogging, doing a year in review sort of deal. And he ended with some bad news.

Last Year (Winds of Winter)

The last post from the Lost Post, and the one you've all been waiting for.

Back when this was one long long long post, before Live Journal sent it to the cornfield, I mentioned opening with Dickens' line, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." So it was for me in 2015. I've spent much of the day recreating (in Cliff's Note summaries) my own personal "best of times" from the previous year, all the wonderful things that went down for me in 2015, the awards and the publications and the bestseller lists, the cons and the parties, the travel, all the exciting new projects underway at HBO and right here down the street in Santa Fe. But inevitably that brings me to my own personal "worst of times," and that is considerably less fun to blog about, so do forgive my reluctance to do so.

You wanted an update. Here's the update. You won't like it.

THE WINDS OF WINTER is not finished.

Believe me, it gave me no pleasure to type those words. You're disappointed, and you're not alone. My editors and publishers are disappointed, HBO is disappointed, my agents and foreign publishers and translators are disappointed... but no one could possibly be more disappointed than me. For months now I have wanted nothing so much as to be able to say, "I have completed and delivered THE WINDS OF WINTER" on or before the last day of 2015.

But the book's not done.

Nor is it likely to be finished tomorrow, or next week. Yes, there's a lot written. Hundreds of pages. Dozens of chapters. (Those 'no pages done' reports were insane, the usual garbage internet journalism that I have learned to despise). But there's also a lot still left to write. I am months away still... and that's if the writing goes well. (Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't.) Chapters still to write, of course... but also rewriting. I always do a lot of rewriting, sometimes just polishing, sometimes pretty major restructures.

I suppose I could just say, "Sorry, boys and girls, still writing," and leave it at that. "It will be done when it's done." Which is what I have been doing, more or less, since... well, forever. But with season 6 of GAME OF THRONES approaching, and so many requests for information boiling up, I am going to break my own rules and say a little more, since it would appear that hundreds of my readers, maybe thousands or tens of thousands, are very concerned about this question of 'spoilers" and the show catching up, revealing things not yet revealed in the books, etc.

My publishers and I have been cognizant of these concerns, of course. We discussed some of them last spring, as the fifth season of the HBO series was winding down, and came up with a plan. We all wanted book six of A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE to come out before season six of the HBO show aired. Assuming the show would return in early April, that meant THE WINDS OF WINTER had to be published before the end of March, at the latest. For that to happen, my publishers told me, they would need the completed manuscript before the end of October. That seemed very do-able to me... in May. So there was the first deadline: Halloween.

Unfortunately, the writing did not go as fast or as well as I would have liked. You can blame my travels or my blog posts or the distractions of other projects and the Cocteau and whatever, but maybe all that had an impact... you can blame my age, and maybe that had an impact too...but if truth be told, sometimes the writing goes well and sometimes it doesn't, and that was true for me even when I was in my 20s. And as spring turned to summer, I was having more bad days than good ones. Around about August, I had to face facts: I was not going to be done by Halloween. I cannot tell you how deeply that realization depressed me.

Early August saw me back east for my nephew's wedding and an appearance with the Staten Island Direwolves. I took advantage of the visit to have another sit down with my editors and publishers and told them that I didn't think I could deliver by Halloween. I thought they'd be sick about it... but I have to say, my editors and publishers are great, and they took it with surprising equanimity. (Maybe they knew it before I did). They already had contigencies in place. They had made plans to speed up production. If I could deliver WINDS OF WINTER by the end of the year, they told me, they could still get it our before the end of March.

I was immensely relieved. I had two whole extra months! I could make that, certainly. August was an insane month, too much travel, too many other obligations... but I'd have September, October, and now November and December as well. Once again I was confident I could do it.

Here it is, the first of January. The book is not done, not delivered. No words can change that. I tried, I promise you. I failed. I blew the Halloween deadline, and I've now blown the end of the year deadline. And that almost certainly means that no, THE WINDS OF WINTER will not be published before the sixth season of GAME OF THRONES premieres in April (mid April, we are now told, not early April, but those two weeks will not save me). Even as late as my birthday and our big Emmy win, I still thought I could do it... but the days and weeks flew by faster than the pile of pages grew, and (as I often do) I grew unhappy with some of the choices I'd made and began to revise... and suddenly it was October, and then November... and as the suspicion grew that I would not make it after all, a gloom set in, and I found myself struggling even more. The fewer the days, the greater the stress, and the slower the pace of my writing became.

Look, I have always had problems with deadlines. For whatever reason, I don't respond well to them. Back in November, when I returned to Northwestern to accept my Alumni Award, I told the Medill students that was why I started writing fiction instead of getting a job on a newspaper. I knew even then that daily deadlines would kill me. That was a joke, of course... but there was truth in it too. I wrote my first novel, DYING OF THE LIGHT, without a contract and without a deadline. No one even knew I was writing a novel until I sent the completed book to Kirby to sell. I wrote FEVRE DREAM the same way. I wrote THE ARMAGEDDON RAG the same way. No contracts, no deadlines, no one waiting. Write at my own pace and deliver when I'm done. That's really how I am most comfortable, even now.

But I won't make excuses. There are no excuses. No one else is to blame. Not my editors and publishers, not HBO, not David & Dan. It's on me. I tried, and I am still trying. I worked on the book a couple of days ago, revising a Theon chapter and adding some new material, and I will writing on it again tomorrow. But no, I can't tell you when it will be done, or when it will be published. Best guess, based on our previous conversations, is that Bantam (and presumably my British publisher as well) can have the hardcover out within three months of delivery, if their schedules permit. But when delivery will be, I can't say. I am not going to set another deadline for myself to trip over. The deadlines just stress me out.

I am going back to my stance from last March, before all this. It will be done when it's done. And it will be as good as I can possibly make it.

Having said all that, I know what the next question will be, because hundreds of you have already asked it of me. Will the show 'spoil' the novels?

Maybe. Yes and no. Look, I never thought the series could possibly catch up with the books, but it has. The show moved faster than I anticipated and I moved more slowly. There were other factors too, but that was the main one. Given where we are, inevitably, there will be certain plot twists and reveals in season six of GAME OF THRONES that have not yet happened in the books. For years my readers have been ahead of the viewers. This year, for some things, the reverse will be true. How you want to handle that... hey, that's up to you. Look, I read Andy Weir's novel THE MARTIAN before I saw the movie. But I saw the BBC production of JONATHAN STRANGE AND MR NORRELL before I finally got around to reading Susanna Clarke's novel. In both cases, I loved the book and I loved the adaptation. It does not need to be one or the other. You might prefer one over the other, but you can still enjoy the hell out of both.

Of course, there's an aspect to our situation that did not apply to either the Weir or Clarke cases. Those novels were finished before they were optioned, adapted, and filmed. The case of GAME OF THRONES and A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE is perhaps unique. I can't think of any other instance where the movie or TV show came out as the source material was still being written. So when you ask me, "will the show spoil the books," all I can do is say, "yes and no," and mumble once again about the butterfly effect. Those pretty little butterflies have grown into mighty dragons. Some of the 'spoilers' you may encounter in season six may not be spoilers at all... because the show and the books have diverged, and will continue to do so.

IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN ALL FIVE SEASONS AND READ ALL FIVE BOOKS, STOP HERE!

Just consider. Mago, Irri, Rakharo, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Pyat Pree, Pyp, Grenn, Ser Barristan Selmy, Queen Selyse, Princess Shireen, Princess Myrcella, Mance Rayder, and King Stannis are all dead in the show, alive in the books. Some of them will die in the books as well, yes... but not all of them, and some may die at different times in different ways. Balon Greyjoy, on the flip side, is dead in the books, alive on the show. His brothers Euron Crow's Eye and Victarion have not yet been introduced (will they appear? I ain't saying). Meanwhile Jhiqui, Aggo, Jhogo, Jeyne Poole, Dalla (and her child) and her sister Val, Princess Arianne Martell, Prince Quentyn Martell, Willas Tyrell, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Lord Wyman Manderly, the Shavepate, the Green Grace, Brown Ben Plumm, the Tattered Prince, Pretty Meris, Bloodbeard, Griff and Young Griff, and many more have never been part of the show, yet remain characters in the books. Several are viewpoint characters, and even those who are not may have significant roles in the story to come in THE WINDS OF WINTER and A DREAM OF SPRING.

GAME OF THRONES is the most popular television series in the world right now. The most pirated as well. It just won a record number of Emmy Awards, including the ultimate prize, for the best drama on television. It's an incredible production with an incredible cast and crew.

WINDS OF WINTER should be pretty good too, when it comes out. As good as I can make it, anyway.

Which is a long way of saying, "How may children did Scarlett O'Hara have?"

Enjoy the show. Enjoy the books.

Meanwhile, I'll keep writing. Chapter at a time. Page at a time. Word at a time. That's all I know how to do.

((And yes, this is my final Cliff's Note for the day. You can all go to bed now)).
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ScottPress · Jan 2, 2016

Well. I can only say, it sucks for the book readers. I'm purely a show fan. That sounded dickish, but really wasn't meant that way.

Also, Grim, no other instance of source material being written as adaptations were in production? Come on, dude, HP isn't exactly obscure. It's like, a worldwide phenomenon.

erartemis · Jan 2, 2016

ScottPress said: ↑

Well. I can only say, it sucks for the book readers. I'm purely a show fan. That sounded dickish, but really wasn't meant that way.

Also, Grim, no other instance of source material being written as adaptations were in production? Come on, dude, HP isn't exactly obscure. It's like, a worldwide phenomenon.
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Well, at least every HP book was completed long before the respective movie came out, so there weren't any spoilers for book readers. Season 6 will spoil book 6.

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