Option B is basically suicide, it doesn't matter WHAT she actually SAID, let's look at this from a logical point of view. Evil Dark Lord, wants to kill you, your family, your friends, etc. He just broke into your house, murdered your husband, and intends to kill your child. What possible reasoning could make her think that offering her own life would stop him? Unless she knew about the sacrificial protection thing, which would make some sense.

I think that griselda had a good idea, with the accidental magical contract, that sounds like a good plausible idea, it might also explain why she didn't fight back, if she recognized that he gave her an opportunity to exploit his words to protect her child.

 

If you have an evil dark lord breaking into your house with the intention to kill and murder all your loved ones, people tend to react in different ways. While some would go all out an fight to give others a chance to escape or to overcome the odds, others especially mothers may plead with the "villains" to spare their loved ones and kill them instead hoping against hope that this would satisfy their blood lust. According to JKR, Tom had no intention of killing Lily as he told Harry time and again, in fact "She need not have died" (obviously due to the request by Snape), his sole aim was Harry. Else why would someone who hates "mudbloods" spare someone who thrice defined him. Obviously he had plans of leaving her as a reward for Snape's efforts.

Thus, all in all Lily could have very well lived. But her love for Harry ensured that she would stand in Tom's path and obviously he was pissed off and swatted her aside. Like someone pointed out, it was this choice of hers to die when she could have easily lived was the key. That one could love another more than life itself is the adage that fits this scenario perfectly. According to Dumbledore (by extension JKR) this ensured an everlasting protection for Harry against Tom. Though JKR feels that James was a different sort of sacrifice, it was not like To told him "Step aside James, I have come here for your son only" and James said "No take me instead, but spare them" and then Tom killed him. I feel what's important is that it is likely that many parents would have stood upto Lord Voldemort to save their children, but how many of them were told to stand aside by him?

 

I thought it was very clearly explained in the book, and Taure has very clearly explained it here. People are disagreeing because they are questioning Lily's reasons.

Lily made the choice to give up her life for that of her sons. It is 'old magic' that Voldemort acknowledged he should have considered. This was a sacrifice.

Harry willingly chose to walk to his death in order to end the seige at Hogwarts and stop the killing. It too was a sacrifice. He willingly submitted to death to spare the people in Hogwarts.

I can't understand the confusion here...

 

I think its the logic, or lack thereof, that's being debated here.

James had to know that he would die, he was willingly going to his death so his wife and child could possibly live.

Why is that not a sacrifice? Out of all the people who have died fighting the Dark Lord over the years not one has thought to sacrifice themselves in such a way as to invoke this "ancient magic."

If it really works the way JKR describes than it seems that every time a new dark lord shows up some sacrificial goat would just be offered up to protect the wizarding world.

"Kill me now so the mob behind me can tear you apart at their leisure."

Remember Harry had no trouble attacking Tom before the blood protection was neutralized in book 4. His touch along was enough to seriously burn Two-Face.

As for Lilly knowing she would die, how? For all she knew Tom could have just stunned her stupid ass.

 

That's just the thing; the reason this worked is because Lily didn't have to die. Voldemort basically told her "Out of the way, I need to kill your son."

She chose to die to try to save her son (when she didn't have to, remember), and by doing so invoked that ancient magic. James would have died either way, so his "sacrifice" wasn't enough to invoke the magic.

 

Umm... what kept James from jumping out a window or running the other way? Besides Lilly didn't know she was going to die, like I said before. For all she knew Tom was going to crucio her ass or just banish her out of the way.

Hell I'd almost expect him to Imperio her into strangling her own child just for defying him. He is a Dark Lord after all.

 

Aside from the fact that he would definitely get ridiculed for leaving his wife and child to die, something tells me there's the whole "Avada Kedavra in the back" aspect to look at. That, and he was a Gryffindor; their "main qualities" are Courage and Chivalry, and while he was one hell of a prick, he did have those quantities in spades (they wouldn't have "defied the dark lord three times" if he didn't). James was going to die either way, so he may as well go out with a bang.

That said, Voldemort is a very straightforward fellow, at least when it comes to spell casting. He probably gave the "mudblood" one chance for Snape, then decided her defiance was an insult and she had to die. Avada Kedavra, now she's dead, time to kill the kid.

 

So there's nothing to keep him from physically turning and running, grabbing a broom, going out the floe, trying to bargain, trying to hide, asking Lilly to fight beside him or grabbing a portkey. His sense of chivalry and courage, along with a fear of mockery, mean he's determined to die going out with a bang and not protecting his family.

Given Tom's desire for showmanship with the needlessly complicated plot in the fourth book I don't think he's that straight forward in either spell casting or scheming. After all Barty Crouch Jr could have just invited Harry to a meeting at the Hogshead, given him the Portkey and been done with it. That's ignoring the duels, the darkmark and the parade.

To repeat earlier parts of this thread. It seems like Lily either committed assisted suicide with her refusal to fight back or knew about the effect of Voldemort killing her before Harry. Assuming she KNEW that he would kill her, which she did not. She was not a sear and there's no cannon support for her having a way to predict the future. I think she would have had a better will if she did.

This just seems like a bullshit Deus ex Machina from a bad fanfic explaining why one character is simply killed holding the line in a desperate last stand and another scarifies themselves when (s)he is killed triggering Ancient!SUPER!Magic that can even block an unforgivable!!!

Question: If she wanted Voldemort to kill her anyway what's the difference between just standing there and trying to kill him? Seems like more of a win-win scenario to me.

 

You've obviously got quite a different standpoint than I do. The way I see it, Harry was sleeping, and his parents were relaxing, probably in the lounge. Then, completely by surprise, Voldemort appears. James, in an act of bravado, tells his wife to get Harry and run, while he holds Voldemort off.

Naturally, James doesn't even last long enough for Lily to reach her son. Voldemort asks her to stand aside while he kills Harry. She refuses, he kills her, and tries to kill Harry. The curse reflects, Voldemort "dies," and someone - Hagrid, I think it was - comes to check up on them, finding three corpses and a baby.

Why didn't James high-tail it out of there? Aside from the bravery and chivalry aspect, if he tried, Voldemort would just hit him in the back with an Avada Kedavra, like I said before. He wouldn't even reach the brooms before dying.

Also, think to all of Voldemort's duels. Every single one of them that you've seen. What's the first spell he always casts? That's right; Avada Kedavra. He always goes for the killing blow right from the start.

Also, this is J.K. Rowling we're talking about. She always relies on some bullshit Deus Ex Machina; I'm not denying that fact.

 

That's true. No doubt about it. Take that instance about thestrals, just because it was pointed out that Harry did not see them after his fourth year but saw them later that summer, she came up with the cock and bull about "death sinking in. Her explanation on underage magic-in HBP she says ministry cannot track underage magic only magic and if cast in a muggle area can draw inferences. In DH the concept of trace is introduced. There are numerous such examples.

James was brave and sacrificed himself for his family. It's immaterial whether he could have hightailed, but he could have begged for his life when faced with a hopeless situation. He did not and that was brave. He had a choice, but he chose to fight it out. But according to JKR that's a different type of sacrifice and not in the same league as Lily's because she could have very well lived and become Snape's concubine.

 

I always had the impression that some kind of alarm was tripped and James actually moved towards Voldemort to initiate the combat. I don't see how he would have had time to talk to Lily if Voldemort was already in the room, or needed to tell her its Voldemort for that matter.

Even if escape is realistically unlikely people will still try if that's the only chance of survival and they want to survive. Baring an extreme stroke of luck, escape was James' only chance of survival.

Harryfan makes a good point about JKR's lack of internal consistency, but I think death is preferable to being Snape's concubine.uke:

 

Its been awhile since I've read the mess that was Deathly Hallows but I thought it was explained what happened with the AK rebound. Voldemort unintentionally made Harry Potter a Horcrux the night he attempted to kill him. It takes an act of murder to create one, so when Lily willingly sacrificed herself, it wasnt exactly murder when he killed her. Selflessness always seems to trump death in the HPverse. Her sacrifice countered the dark magic that goes into creating a Horcrux, creating a protection on Harry against Voldemort. When Voldemort AK'd Harry the spell rebounded and ripped him from his body. His soul was already weak and unstable from the creation of the other Horcruxes, and use of dark magic, that when his spirit fled the house a peice attached itself to Harry. Which is where the window into Voldemort's mind and Parseltongue ability comes from. At least thats what I got from it. I might be wrong.