This has stemed from an arguement on the IRC room.

Is animation transfiguration or charms?

My opinion, and the opinion of the majority, is that it is transfiguration for several reasons.

Minerva M, the transfigurations mistress, made an animated chess board.

When a an object is animated, it moves under its own power - i.e. the animating spell is cast, the object is given a set of instructions, or a personality, and then it is left to its own devices. This is proven by the fact that M.M. had left her chess set and yet it knew what to do after she was gone - she didnt have to actively control them.

This is different from charms. In charms, the charmed object only remains charmed as long as it is kept under the wizards power and direct control e.g. levitating a feather, casting a summoning spell, banishing an object.

What are your thoughts?

 

Wouldn't animation be an enchantment?

 

That is what I'm saying!!!

 

Enchantment is just a fancy way of saying charms.

With charms as soon as the wizard ends the spell the effect of the spell ends. With transfiguration it has to be actively untransfigured. Animation does not fail unless steps are taken to actively stop it, therefore it belongs in the realm of transfiguration.

 

I'd have to agree with you that it seems more of a transfiguration thing rather than charms. Everything I've heard/read/thought about charms has been that it's a "light" subject in that it doesn't take alot. Animation is more aggressive than that, it's far "heavier" in that there is more of an effect on it's surroundings because "it" thinks for itself to an extent.

It made sense in my head.

 

You mean, like the first years making a pineapple, tap dance across a desk in the CHARMS exam?

 

That was not animation, that was charming - there are spells to make an object dance (tantellegra -sp?). However, these spells will fail. I doubt that the pinnaple is still dancing several years later.

As far as I'm concerned (and canon is concerned), transfiguration changes what defines an object - it's very nature. Changing an inanimate object to an animate one does this.

Charms, however, simply imposes an effect upon an object, it doesn't change the object in question.

Animation is clearly the first.

 

Good point. Theres another branch of magic we didn't think of.

Going off transfig is changing on object into another for an amount of time and Charms are making something occur, like movement etc I must say that animation is a mixture of both. Depending on how they developed it, I reckon it could've been done either way.

you change a statue into a moving statue, you gave it the ability to move and do what you want etc like DD did in MoM, or you could use a charm on the object to make it move, thus the whole thing with the staute protecting harry and saving DD etc. The chess board is a little off putting, it bites holes into it being charms, if you transigured the chess peices, you would have to charm them to play chess etc, which kind of makes sense, the charm would wear off eventually when you dont concentrate on the task. But this brings in the whole normal chess peices, the ones that move and stuff, are they transfigured? but wouldnt they turn back?
The thing is, most people know transfg etc cause they went to school. And now you have all these shops which would require transfiguration that realisticly you could just do yourself and save your money by taking a trip to the library. So really, there must be other aspects to magic we dont know of, a clear classification of the branches of magic.
Animation, truly is a mixture hybrid of transfiguration and Charms which so aptly named in the post above me at the time would be Enchantment, which is prollu a branh of magic just tied into other subject as it isnt in the syllabus as heavily or something, or if you tink about it, it would put alot of people out of money who do it for a living.

 

I probably need to go back and re-read the books, but there's a little more to animation than charms.

ex: First years make a pinapple dance across table - The spell is under their control. Minerva M animates the chessboard set - The peices are free thinking because the spell not only gives them temporary intelligence, but that pro. M is not really controling them.

 

Exactly my point Swimdraconian.

 

That is like saying the computer is thinking...They just had rules to follow, the rules of chess and instructions to let whoever pass, if they win.

 

Erm...True Story...that's our point...the pieces were given instructions and an inteligence and then left to their own devices...M.M. no longer had active control over them.

If the chess board was charmed then Minerva would have had to direct each move of the pieces personally - which she obviously didn't as if she sis then she would have known that someone was trying to get to the stone.

 

The computer may only spit back out what you put in, but it also has been programmed to "think" for itself a bit. There is a lot of complecated programming that go into designing programs.

Perhaps not the best analogy for this discussion....

 

Patronus Charm- takes a lot (mentally) to maintain for long periods of time.

Fidelius Charm- the best warding that one can have in the wizarding world with the possible exception of blood wards.

Don't forget that Flickwick charmed the keys to not only fly but to evade capture from Harry.

I think it is more likely the animating is a shared skill between transfiguration and charms. You have to use a little of both to do it.

 

Are wards a separate branch of magic or are they a conglomerate of charms and trasfiguration?

 

Fidelius Charm, yet I don't see DD still concentrating once the spell is done, and the flying keys, I dont see flitwick there controlling them. Lets jsut face it, its just stoopid JK with the plot holes you can drive a road train through.

 

*grins* OneEyedMan has a point. A damn good one too.

 

Yeah, and we know from JKRs interviews that the fidelius does not fail when the caster dies...so, plot holes galore it seems.

 

At least with Fanfiction we can fix that.

 

Yes so no matter what we think to the contrary it will always stay true to our beleifs in the wonders world of Fanfiction.
WE ALL WIN! yay!...er I mean yeah...