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Apparition Mechanics: What are its limitations?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Garden, Mar 27, 2016.

  1. Garden

    Garden Minister of Magic

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    (This thread has been split from a discussion that can be found here.)

    Really? You can only apparate if you've been somewhere before? I don't remember that from canon. And if need be he can do it multiple times over shorter distances.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2016
  2. Peter North

    Peter North Dark Lord

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    In book 6 Dumbledore had to guide Harry to the cave because he had never been there before. It stands to reason that you need to know where your going to aparate there.
     
  3. Boo

    Boo Auror

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    Hermione was able to apparate to Godric's Hallow without having been there before.
     
  4. cancelled for a

    cancelled for a Second Year

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    I'm pretty sure you just need an idea of where you want to go and the magic takes care of the rest. A picture would be pretty much perfect.
     
  5. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    There's a strong implication that large bodies of water block apparition. This is derived from a few different facts:

    1. We have seen people apparate from Scotland to the south of England, a distance of hundreds of kilometres.

    2. The crossing between England and continental Europe is 33km.

    3. In DH, Voldemort flew from continental Europe to Britain rather than apparating, even though he was in a hurry.

    4. Something must have been stopping Voldemort from apparating. That something was not distance.

    The only plausible preventative factor here seems to be the English Channel.
     
  6. Palindrome

    Palindrome A bigger, darker mark Moderator DLP Supporter

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    That wouldn't make sense: what if someone gave you a photoshopped picture of somewhere that didn't really exist, or a mashup of two places?

    Also, I'm a bit leery of this concept of longer-distance jumps being impossible to pull off. I tend to like its presence in fanfiction because it can add an extra challenge for the protagonist, but does it have any actual grounding in canon?

    First off, I've never seen a good explanation for the consequences of long-distance jumps. Does it just exhaust a wizard (if so, why?), is it dangerous, or is it just straight up impossible? If any of those are the case, why would jumping several times in rapid succession be any better?

    (Edit: Taure's theory is pretty cool)

    Apparation has always seemed a little broken in general.
     
  7. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §–

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    For use in my fanfic I gimped apparition by having the magic involved take a toll on the user if abused, basically stretched the being-squeezed sensation beyond what was described in canon. Like Drome said, apparition is a little broken.
     
  8. Clampert

    Clampert First Year

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    I'm all for apparition being limited with familiarity with location.

    The three D's they were thought in canon were Destination, Determination, Deliberation. How can one be completely determined to reach a destination he is not familiar with?
     
  9. Red

    Red Professor

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    It's still possible that it's distance alone, if Voldemort was at Nurmengard (which I'm assuming is in Germany) then that would place him around 1000km from England. He might have had to fly within "range" to apparate.
     
  10. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    As opposed to just apparating several times?
     
  11. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    If it was distance alone, you'd still expect him to apparate once he was within range. And given that we know you can apparate a few hundred km for sure, that point should have been on the continent, not after arriving in Britain. But we definitely see him flying over water.
     
  12. llawssalg

    llawssalg DA Member

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    If the picture is photoshopped or not clear enough then the apparate fail because you don't have the destination right simple as that why would it be bullshit, the apparate would at worse make you splinch.
    As for voldemort continuous apparate instead of flying, do note that apparating even just one time can bw quite disorienting, so it seems to voldemort flying closer to britain so that he could apparate to malfoy manor is safer. Alternatifely he just didn't remember the landscape that he fly around for the first time to be able to pin point it as his destination.
     
  13. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    That Dumbledore apparates Harry to the cave is pretty obvious, IMO: The problem isn't that Harry doesn't know where the cave is, it's that he doesn't know where they want to go. As opposed to the other example, where Hermione might not know where Godric's Hollow is (or what it looks like, to clear that one up), but is quite sure that she wants to go there. That's Destination, as far as I am concerned.

    I think I'd invert Taure's explanation: Apparition is a form of land-travel. And that's why you have Portkeys for larger distances.

    However, this still doesn't prevent you from apparating from Norway to China, which I guess could be possible, but leaves me a little dissatisfied.
     
  14. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The Dumbledore taking Harry to the cave situation is even simpler, I think: Harry doesn't have an apparition licence and Dumbledore, while willing to break the law when necessary, doesn't do it on a whim.
     
  15. Download

    Download Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    I prefer to think that the magical governments don't want free international apparition so they put up some sort of charm that acts as a barrier between nations.
     
  16. ihateseatbelts

    ihateseatbelts Seventh Year

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    So I'm likely pretty out-there with this idea, but what the hey. Pottermore tells us that ghosts, while able to pass through solid objects, create disturbances when in contact with air, fire and water. Perhaps this elemental quirk manifests among living Beings in some way, so you can Apparate over land, but not the sea/sky/stars(?) or something? The whole "witches can't travel over water" is a staple mechanic in folklore, so there's that too.
     
  17. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem High Inquisitor

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    I think Voldemort didn't apparate in DH because he was still inside the radius of the Nurmengard anti-disapparition charm. Also, If portkeys can transport one over the sea, why didn't Voldemort just create one instead of apparating/flying, assuming that he was out of the radius of the Nurmengard protective charms?
     
  18. aleph

    aleph First Year

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    I like this potential explanation better than the bodies of water theory. It's basically teleportation, so there's really no underlying reason why it would be disrupted by bodies of water. Besides, if it were bodies of water that was the issue, it would still allow wizards to freely teleport all across Asia, which would be a bit ridiculous.

    It would make perfect sense to restrict international apparition from a law and order perspective. Otherwise, a wanted criminal could simply apparate a few countries over, making the aurors' task virtually impossible. It would also cause significant problems with illegal immigration, smuggling, etc. From a national security perspective, if a war ever broke out, the magical government would want to make it as difficult as possible for enemy forces to apparate into the country.

    Given how we have seen that there are magical ways to block apparition, as well as nation-wide magical effects such as the Taboo and the Trace, I don't see it as too much of a stretch for the government to introduce something similar to control international apparition.
     
  19. FriedIce

    FriedIce Seventh Year

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    Yes it does. The Baltic Sea is right in the way between Norway and China.

    Honestly though, I'm inclined to say that past a certain point the curvature of the earth starts causing problems, not insurmountable problems (like the water issue) but enough for it to be too hard for the average wizard to perform.

    Or you could just use the explanation that Voldemort could have apparated from the continent to Britain but chose to fly instead because its far more showy and he was aiming to make an impression. Every wizard worth their salt can apparate, every few can perform unaided flight.
     
  20. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    It's not if you start in Tromsö, Norway borders on Finland and Russia. I knew why I picked Norway. Are we really arguing about this? The point is perfectly clear :|
     
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