My point is that Fonti was saying she was the best at reading your meta, thus meta suggests you are town.

I said, bullshit appeal to authority means nothing and gave an example that someone would object to, thus illustrating my point.


Also, Fonti is not being "uncertain", she's waffling back and forth as to which Prophy is in the game that better suits her own points. That's not town!uncertainty.

====

Lyrium, what the hell is that sword of fire stuff? If it's crumbing role guesses, stop it right now.

Also, Prophy is not scum. Not one bit. He ain't getting lynched if I have anything to say about it.

Prophy isn't scum cuz a) he opened aggressively and in a manner inconsistent with his scum meta b) he took my gut and spewed it onto the thread c) he's paranoid of me aggreeing with him d) he's actively pushing confscum


Now, why do you think Prophy is scum and why won't you join me on the shiny Bill Door wagon? What's bad about the wagon? I don't see anything from you being "it's bad".

---------- Post automerged at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

Also a person identified as dead says nothing about their role flip. Roles aren't flipped on death.

 

Does it say that in the rules? Can Zeit clarify?

Zeit's Star Wars mafia game had roles revealed on death. Roles should be revealed on death because its more fun that way and analysis on wagons can be done giving town incentive to post.

Titus I'm making accusations since from my perspective everyone start off as scum until proven town.

Bill is the easy wagon, let's lull him into a false sense of security and then lynch him. Lol, actually the first wagon in mafia games often ends up being on town so I'm not sure.

 

Alright, got a chance to read through briefly.

Current fairly solid reads:

Scum #1: Bill Door
Delaying/lack of scumhunting, half-hearted tunnel on me; behavior doesn't seem to match last game

Scum #2: Titus
1 on 1 with Ika provides a good way for a lot of posting without much accomplished, but more specifically, more than a couple posts look really forced to me.

@Ika
I would like your opinion on this. Specifically, on how I'm reading Titus AND what you think of me reading her that way

People to watch #1: Prophylaxis
Reasoning: Redacted for now

People to watch #2: Font
Reasoning: Slight town read, but it matches the read I had when looking through the witch hunt game while I was observing it, so I am not very confident in my gut here.

Town #1: Lyrium
An advantage of being a scummate with her in the previous game is I got to see a little further into her way of thinking as scum in real time. I'm fairly confident on my town-read here thus far

Elect Guest of Honour: Lyrium

Deadline Vote: Titus

More confident on Titus right now. I very strongly believe one of them should be lynched today.

---------- Post automerged at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

@Proph

You still haven't answered me. Why did you vote before electing a guest of honor?

 

Yeah, I don't really do the lull scum into a false sense of security when I can catch the scumteams based on who is obvious and has piss poor reactions.

Lyrium, then how does one get "proven" town? Prophy's post scream town to me and there's literally nothing scummy in them.

I'll just ask the mod about flippage on death. Better than assuming...

Mod: Are roles flipped on death?

---------- Post automerged at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------

My fucking god really... :facepalm:

I'm screaming bloody murder that Bill Door has to die, I'll one v one him and somehow that communicates to at least one town we are scumbuddies... what the fuck...

 

@Sloth

Can you show me your thought process, regarding my alignment? Your very first content post has me down as "probable scum" but I'm not seeing any reasoning.

You've moved me up to a neutral read based on Bill Door's defensiveness, but I still don't get why you had me as a scum read before.

Why do you say ika and Titus are "most suspicious" but don't vote?

This whole post feels noncommittal to me.

Scumhunting and actively doing stuff doesn't count if we were the ones to prod you into doing it.

And I swear your criticizing of my misuse of meta rings a bell:

--- Response to Bill Door's wall:

Fair enough.

This is terrible. You spent most of RVS tying people together instead of hunting scum. It's much easier to point out connections between players who haven't flipped than actually scumhunt.

...You're still making gameplay suggestions for town rather than, y'know. Actually scumhunting.

You're saying that only scum connect themselves early in the game?

IIoA.

It still doesn't explain why you haven't scumhunted until we called you out.

--

If you vote for Bill Door toDay I will vote you for Lump.

Easy quid pro quo.

:thumbsup:

@Everyone on Titus: If you all vote Bill Door toDay you can all lynch Titus toMorrow.

Alright, caught up.

I think I need to reread. There was a lot of hot air being spewed in the thread.

I also think I need to firm up the Bill Door case.

While Titus is making me paranoid I haven't really seen why she is more scummy than Bill Door. I have no idea why votes are on her right now. I'm fine with analyzing her Day 2 but we have scum in the form of Bill Door.

 

Prophy, you are giving scum your lump power... :facepalm

 

Again, I don't think fontisian is scum, and I'm unconvinced of your cases against her.

Lesse.

 

What about them is unconvincing? At least unconvincing enough where another player is better as a lump choice? I'd be happier with ika as a lump and I know damn well he's probably going to use one of his votes on me in perpetuity. I just don't want scum to have it.

 

I have fontisian as a town read.

You have fontisian down as a scum read. You don't want me to vote for font for lump.

I disagree, because I have fontisian down as a townread. You complain.

Is this going to get us anywhere?

Either way, I'm rereading this game. If I notice anything bad about font I'll tell you.

 

Let's discuss after your reread. I'm happy with any lump outside of my scumreads.

 

It's a spirit thing. The rest of his post was a joke, but the deadline vote instead of a regular lynch vote implied that he was thinking about the consequences of his vote type. Since it's very unlikely that he was worried about an accidental hammer in a moderate sized game during RVS, it's more likely that he was worried about how his vote would be perceived. His experience says that deadline votes look more towny than regular votes, so he went with the deadline vote.

I think Titus changing her vote was done to show that she agrees with using Deadline votes over regular votes. It doesn't really bother me.

My mentality behind that post was that I wanted to look town by attacking something, without realizing that as something good for town, I really shouldn't have attacked it. My attack was also very superficial, ignoring the context of Mori's reads. I think Bill Door's head was in the same place when he attacked Titus.

Sloth is town, by the way.

What don't you like about his GoH vote for Ollie?

Which reasons precisely do you disagree with?

I'm a bit insulted that you think a Proph/me team would be this obvious.

Yo ika, join the Titus lynch.

...
This game doesn't have flips, Proph.

"Hi, I'm Nemrut and I don't give a shit about this game."

Oh, you're talking about that thing. The preemptive apology when no one's attacked him yet. Hmm.

Hey Nermut, give me some reads. Fake edit: Oh you did, but they're very nullish. Pressure someone.

Uh, no. Tell me why this isn't OK, Proph.

I'm ok with Lyrium. Her viewpoints fit with her limited experience. The loaded questions are ridiculous, but it's a newb ridiculous. I'm going to settle for watching her for now.

What do you mean by you "wanted" me to be town?

The latter. It's possibly that Titus would buddy a teammate as a wifom form of distancing, but I really doubt it.

"Much more" is a stretch. He tunneled Aekiel/Eric F for a while in that game. Why are determining Proph's scum meta from a single game?

No, I haven't, because I've never played a 48 hour game with you before. Your description of your scum meta does not match my experiences with you.

You're reaching again. Lyrium did not ask me for my opinion of Sloth.

I love how this addresses none of my points.

The fuck? How is asking you why you voted for someone an attempt to get you to lynch them?

You are way too sure of yourself.

1.That vote was not RVS. If you believed it to be RVS, after Proph had already claimed to break RVS, it should not have given you a favorable opinion of Proph.
2.It really didn't get the game talking at all. In fact, I was the only one who reacted to it.
3. When you lump voted Proph, his lump vote was still on Ollie, so don't claim that influenced your original decision.

How about, no? Sure I'm townreading Proph, but I am not willing to let go of my paranoia. He could be skilled scum, and I am going to watch him carefully until we're both dead.

Mmm, yeah, that would lose you your mislynch, wouldn't it? I'm as egotistical as you are, Titus dear. I'm just a bit better at hiding it.

Lay out the case for me, right here.

Titus: Here's the deal. From now on you will use quotes to back up your statements or I will not respond to them. You are wasting my time with accusations you're pulling out of your ass.

Proph: What part of the case against Titus isn't clear? I'm going to have to turn down your lump offer, but I'll offer the reverse if you join me on Titus.

Citrus: Thank you.

Everyone else: Titus is scum. Help me lynch her.

 

I just found out today I apparently got voluntold to replace into this. Um, my headstate is not good enough to read 13 pages of this right meow. I'll get back to you, friends.

 

Reread

Alright, let's do this.

*skips over Bill Door's posts*

*drums fingers*

Titus, can you explain where you detected aggression from font's posts? And can you explain why it's fake?

The only post I could interpret it was her problems with ika here:

...Which seems totally reasonable to me.

Town mentality - ika's anxious to get the ball rolling out of RVS.

fontisian, did you ever follow up on the "willing to 1v1 Titus" thing from ika?

Tempted to town read ika more after the "I'm confused", which reads natural, but we'll see.

Yeah, the note to self and "random questions" show a clear town mentality. Instead of backing off, ika wants to get involved in the discussion, and the "note to self" is a clear thought progression.

Unaligned pair - if Bill gets revealed as scum, ika is probably town.

She's curious about my reasoning, and acting as "town police". Slight townpoints.

Can't really explain it, but most of my read on fontisian's posts are based on tone. There's more of the natural curiousness.

Ugh, I'm frustrated at myself for being unable to explain it, but there's something there when I ISO the Witchhunt game that just isn't present here. Her tone is more akin to one of the Micro Mafia games, I feel.

fontisian's thought progression in this post is good - I *think* that's the closest I can come to explaining it.

Because I didn't know that I needed to place my lump vote first before voting for people.

I don't deadline vote normally - I always lynch vote. Most of the sites I play at don't have the luxury of deadline votes, so yeah.

Explain to me what posts gave you a slight townread on Bill Door.

This is why I think fontisian is town - I was shower thinking and thought pulling a flashy gambit (like lumping Ollie, who never posts at all) would make her do something. As scum, she would have questioned why I pulled a stunt like that, and I like the instinctive reaction.

Which of my six (rather short) posts gave you a "strong town lean"?

End of page 1 (using 100ppp), townreads: fontisian, ika. Scumreads: Bill Door. Questionable: Titus.

Hm.

Titus, can you provide a behavioral case as to why fontisian is scum?

Cut the connections to Bill Door. Just straight reads and reasoning, please.

What was the bolded?

--

Hm. fontisian's asking a question I'm desperate to know (Why didn't you vote Bill Door before my case) but Titus dodges it. Let's see what happens next.

ika just basically sheeps my case - his "reasoning" came from Bill Door's posts after I made it. Data point.

I swear reading Titus's posts gives me a headache.

Titus, if you're scumreading Bill Door, why did you tell this to Bill Door?

I do like how Citrus is hanging up on me about the questions, but he's been fairly cryptic so far.

Kind of want to say "distancing weeeee" on both of them, heh.

I like Sloth's conviction, as I've stated, on the Titus read. His points regarding me are a bit questionable (as in, if I was inclined to, I could break them down) but he's a townread for now.

Still want fontisian to answer me regarding this post.

Hm.

Titus, can I get a small reads list from you? I'm not sure where you stand on people, yet, other than fontisian and I.

And Titus still dodges the question!

A whole bunch of posts from town and scumreads - people who I've already sorted out.

Still want to hear from ika about this post. Actually, going to do the same thing with ika as I did to Titus:

ika, can you provide a behavioral case as to why I am scum?

Cut the connections to Titus, or anyone for that matter.. Just straight reasoning and analysis, please.

fontisian, what are your thoughts on Lyrium?

Titus, if your #194 is meant to be a case as to why fontisian is scum, tell me so so I can focus on it.

Why is Titus referencing her scum games so many times?

I'm inclined to agree with this.

Done with page two. Town: fontisian, Sloth, ika. Scum: Bill Door. Maybe scum: Citrus. Still questionable: Titus.

Not many people posted except {font, Titus, Sloth, ika}.

Page Three.

As I mentioned, this is full of fencesitting and noncommitalness.

I seem to recall you saying that ika was probably scum. Why this rapid reversal?

(This is why I want a easy reads list from you, since your posts are difficult to comprehend to me sometimes)

I like fontisian's anger in #232.

I understand Sloth's case but I don't want to lynch Titus before Bill Door.

Ugh man reading these triple triad of Titus posts makes me want to take a break.

Yeah, that's what's getting me about Nemrum. Feel free to ignore all the stuff I mentioned about this earlier in this post.

I don't remember you being visibly angry as scum, and when I think about it my mind flashes back to Tiny Hunt 3, where you disappeared as a wagon started building up on you.

Yeah, that's what I thought (being a newb). Ignore anything earlier here that asked for your thoughts on Lyrium.

You had a tone in this game that matched up with your Micro Mafia town games and I wanted you to be town so we can solve the game together.

Yes, thank you.

I think the problem is that Titus's posts give me an aneurysm. This explains it pretty well:

I'll go through with her posts when I feel better. Right now I feel bad spending an hour of the day on a reread.

And I'm done, yay.

Analysis and Certainty (copyright Az):

Prophylaxis - Obv. 10/10
fontisian - I can't really explain it in words but her tone this game matches very similarly to her town games. I don't really have much problems with her posts and she's good behaviorally. Very natural. 8/10
Sloth - Has a conviction that I don't think scum can fake. Has a few holes in his posts but he's believing what he's saying. 7/10
ika - I liked him on Page 1 but he has some weird stances in his posts, as I've covered. 6/10
Lyrium - Seems like a massive change up from the previous game, and I agree with font's thoughts on her. 2/10

Lurkers:

Lexicat 0/10
OllieK 0/10
Caligula 0/10
Schrodinger 0/10

(watch this be the scum team, natch!)

Scum:

Titus - I can't really read Titus because her posts often have bad logic and I can't figure out where her head it as at any given time. I'll look at her more closely if I have time. There are some glaring questions she hasn't answered well and she's buddying me hard, which gives me pause. Also she's talking too much about her scumgames. 2/10
Nemrut - Apologetic tell is pretty good. Fencesits in all of his posts. Lurking. 5/10
Citrus - All of his posts are cryptic, distant, and half hearted. Distancing weee with Bill. 7/10
Bill Door - already covered. 10/10

 

LURKER?

EXCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE ME?

 

Lexilove, if you're into playing this game right now, that's awesome. If you aren't then don't worry about it and just let Zeit know.

Bill's lack of response are confirming him as scum. The more Titus talks the more she seems suspicious.

Roles should be revealed on death, isn't that the normal way mafia games are run?

---------- Post automerged at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 PM ----------

Need to reread all this and will post questions.

Prophylaxis, considering four players haven't posted yet what are the odds that 3/3 scum have posted already?

 

Role + alignment aren't revealed on death.

I'd prefer not to speculate on this and scumhunt based on the people posting so far. If there are scum lurking in the lurkers pile we can analyze them as soon as they post content.

 

Oh nice. I was looking forward to playing with Lexi. She was a right bitch in Dresden and it was fun.
For the record, I've been asking Zeit questions since yesterday, including the one about flips, and have yet to receive an answer so he might be indisposed or something.
Anyway.


@Bill you haven’t addressed my question in #233



@Lyrium

Wait a tic.
It’s interesting you say that because I just went through your posts and you haven’t asked a question to me, aside from your little vague-as-all-get-out strong-statement question in your first post, which seemed like a throwaway, and which you laughed away after my response without follow-up. Why is that?
What are your reads on me?
You’ve been jumping over the place so much and referring to everyone as Scum (like freakin’ Oprah), I have no clue who are your top scumreads, aside from Prophy, presumably.

You never discussed this further.
For that matter, you didn’t answer my question to my post in #233. I have had the SAME suspicions as you about Prophy, yet I still see Titus as the stronger scum.
I want to know in detail.

I’m…going to assume these aren’t actual reasons. Correct me if you want.

Not relevant to game but why the quotation marks? XD



@Prophy
Hey Prophy. I saw your questions, I’ll be happy to address them, but you said you’re reading through the thread again, and I believe I answered them, so I’ll wait until you’re done. If you have further questions afterwards, let me know.

…Danger. I don’t know what to make of this.
Finish reading. See how you feel on Titus.

Your post was lacking in anything remotely close to substance.
It’s been more than 6 hours. Where’s your follow-up?

---------- Post automerged at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------

actual questions*, not reasons

 

This post is fake aggression because Fonti is trying to twist ika's desire to settle my alignment early. I don't want a repeat of the game from a year ago where I was the mayor and ika was the doctor, anon coms games. I lynched him. We always go toe to toe until we sort each other.

This isn't fake at all coming from ika. It doesn't make him town for doing it.

Saying you're willing to go after someone this early to get reads is appropriate. The only question to me is whether ika was faking or not. Fonti just seems to be willing to jump on anything that moves as scummy out of the gate and cause unnecessary division.

This is the shitty meta defense of Scum!Door. Yet, it doesn;t matter cuz it's a shitty defense of anyone town or scum.

1) Speech changes with behavior
2) It's not true



Fonti then follows it up with asking about Bill Door and Citrus generally. She wants to see if she can attack Citrus or whether she needs to start distancing from Bill Door.


Prophy then does his gambit of voting for a player to be his lump who provided no content. Easy thing to do to draw reactions. It's textbook to say what the fuck it makes no sense. Someone who doesn't know or trust Prophy naturally cuts off that gambit. Someone who knows Prophy as town gambits rarely and does so with a reason let's Prophy continue his gambit. So Fonti, being the expert on Prophy... doesn't trust his alignment to be clear in his gabmit... no Fonti wants control over this town and votes to Lynch Prophy. It's a total overreaction post. What the fuck was that MIGHT come from suspicious town. Yet, she doesn't have the same reaction to Prophy's naked ish vote on BillDoor.

--- I get back from lunch ---

I see this and it starts pinging me wrong. I get the case from Fonti and research the meta she provided. The meta case sucks.

Why would someone jump to meta for a defense when it isn't even true... scumbuddies... this is where my gut started pinging about Fonti and BillDoor being scumbuddies.


We have a few pages of setup confusion (I thought there were more roles than players but there aren't my bad there).

Then Fonti wants to know why I didn't change my vote solely on gut. I'm not a gut player. Seeing someone show similar sentiments to me causes me to change my vote as it signifies I am on the right path. Fonti posts this type of posting to a) create division between myself and Prophy and b) Stir up Paranoia. I am at 158 for those of you playing along at home.

158 is consistent with Fonti's play generally. She never really takes a stance on anyone beyond me being scum, but that's obvious. I'm in a three v 1, they'd be insane to townread me. Yet, they can't kill the crazy chick b/c they know I'd be right. So they panick and ignore each other. Fonti also has no read on Sloth. That shouldn't happen. Sloth has provided content.

Back to chronological order.

Fonti starts planting the conspiracy theory that I'm Bill Door's scummate in 168 and it spreads far too easily. At no point does it ever make sense that scum would hard bus each other day 1 with absolutely no benefit at all. People who should be thinking that Fonti is right about me being scummy should be thinking Bill Door is town. Yet, they can't because Bill Door is scum. Also, look at the people who started that ridiculous theory, Fonti and Sloth. Sloth is new to the behavioral analysis but Fonti should know better than this. Fonti knows that behavior that is totally illogical doesn't make an iota of sense unless you're missing something.

Fonti is totally buddying you Prophy. She's basically buddying you but fenceshitting on your alignment. She'll do stuff that says you're basically townie for it without the words. It shouldn't be the words. I should be able to give a transparent townread. Apparently that's just going to get me lynched if I show an iota of confidence early.

Oh by the way, I could just say Sorry!, not give a damn and go all Parker on the scum's asses but since obvtown Lyrium is totally thinking I'm scummy the more I try to push obvscum but I don't really give a shit. Scum will die, by my hand. Oh yeah and I can totally prove what I just said there. Just count how many times I professed to fuck up on the vote of honor. I'm so confident you and ika are town, I can fucking tell you that and yeah I'm concerned about a repeat of Parker.

I will figure it out how to convince you of the blatant shit that is going on. I may not today, but maybe if I just keep howling loud enough, scum will think I am mislynchable and keep my ass alive.

 

Thanks.

Will read through, and try to follow your conclusions, soon.

 

Roles will not be flipped on death.