Sloth, there is no "Piercing". Spirits Protection works against everything but Assassinations. Assassinations, if matched correctly, kill everything and everybody.

 

doo doo doo~

 

Vaatu Dark Spirits are given to each dead Infiltrator. Each Infiltrator can only use it once per game.

 

Thank the heavens, or else we'd never get a chance to win.

---------- Post automerged at 21:49 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------

Man, this discussion sucks all sort of balls.

 

Nemrut, if you look closely I began tunneling Fontisian early on.

I also attacked Schrodinger in three posts. So my instinct is good, its the confidence and making a succinct case that needs work. I'm in my second game, I'll get better eventually.

I read your last scum game, the one you linked.

If a stealth scum was hiding behind the facade of town-ness, how would you pressure them?

Ask me a question. In fact, ask everyone alive three questions.

Lexicat,

I'm hoping against hope that you are town but at this point you don't have enough content at all which is surprising. Knowing your epic logic and deduction skills, lead a town victory please.

Where is the game at in terms of mylo\lylo type situations? What does town need to do to win? You mentioned scorched earth, yesterday. What will that look like from here on out?

Why did you town!firm Schrodinger at one point even though his posts have been ridiculous?

---------- Post automerged at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 PM ----------

Sloth,

I find it interesting that yesterDay your main post was basically a wall post that you had prepared in advance. Can you provide analysis of everything that's happened since?

What do you make of the scums's night actions so far? Do you see anything strange about the OllieK\Zircon NK?

You were tutored by Fontisian, can you reveal any insight?

Best case scenario for town next day\worst case scenario?

What is the town's goal for today?

I looked over the rules and you're right GoH grants me the power to go one on one with a Fire Infiltrator and take them out if it was down to me and one scum left in the game.

What is the optimal way to utilize this?

You shared many of my reservations about Prophylaxis early on, can you follow up and tell me what has changed or what you think now?

Please don't be scum.

---------- Post automerged at 11:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------

Prophylaxis, can you please:

1. Scum hunt. Pick a suspicious target and apply pressure. I want to see how you do it when its endgame as you pointed out.

2. Pick a question addressed to each of the players before and answer it. I want to see which you pick and how you answer it.

 

why do you do this I swear to god I want to kill you each time.

 

Bleh.
Sorry for the delay. Some less-than-desirable things have happened to my co-writer and I wanted to spend the day with her, drinking like hell.
Mildly tipsy, so excuse the rambling:
Pierce/Vaatu/Whichever you wanna use, just glad to have an answer.

@Lyrium
I’m going to work under the assumption that the GoH is not NK immune unless Zeit says otherwise.

The best reason I’ve been able to come up with is that they want to stir up suspicion in order to get you mislynched…and I really don’t think whatever they might gain from doing so would outweigh the danger of your two votes on their ability to lead the game their way, along with your 1-to-1 advantage against them – this is worrying, as the other reason I’ve been able to come up with is, obviously, that you’re scum yourself.
If someone has a third option, I’m all ears.

I suppose we could lynch you off once we’re down to 5-or-so players, just in case, but we’d really need more solid to resort to something like that, especially since you’re the last player than can overthrow scum, what with the Governor and the Earthbender both dead.

Btw, those questions remind me very eerily of the last game we played together.
The answers are fairly obvious too.

The worst scum can do? Hm. Actually get a role right would be one thing.
(Sheldon: BAZINGA!)
Seriously, if you’re Town and they get us to mislynch you, that’d be bad.
If you’re scum and they get us NOT to lynch you, that’d be equally bad.

But let’s ignore that. They’re not going to risk assassination after the disaster it’s been for them, so one of the worst things they could do is Claim to be Zuko once we’re down to 4 and convincing us.
Good thing Mai didn’t die D1.

--

@Lexi
Can you go over what about Lyrium’s recent post has allowed you to relax a bit? Not seeing it myself. If anything, her fire and rapid questions have gone down considerably since getting the GoH and that’s worrying. I’m saying worrying at lot.

Lyrium asked the same so here’s the basics of what I’ve been saying:

D1: This was, by far, the most activity he had in the game. He spend most of it basically playing leader and leading the Bill Door Train. His explanations for bill door were good but had a lot of half-accuracies and assumptions which I pointed out when I broke it down. He said my arguments had holes he could point out but never did. There’s NOTHING more suspicious to me than saying I’m wrong and then not explaining, clearly and sensibly, why that is. Even if it’s to point out how stupid I am, you need to explain this crap.
On Fonti, he was quick to very fervently town-firm her, and we’ve all talked about how that was strange and didn’t make sense. It reeked of buddying between the two. I pointed out that one of the few Town possibilities I could see was of them being Katara and Aang, which is obviously not true. Anything else is just scum.
On Titus, she was Town and quick to back him up, for reasons she too never really explained. Titus seems to be really brilliant at picking up player’s loyalties, and absolutely horrible at explaining anything. She also called Fonti from the start…However, she called me scum too, and I’m simply not, so maybe she was also wrong on Prophy. Then again, she never really played with me before and didn’t know what to expect, whereas she played with Prophy.
Lyrium, Ika, Schrodinger…their relationships with him basically blended.
Me, he townfirmed me too. Never explained why, aside from conviction.

D2: He was a non-entity here. Claimed being rattled by the Fonti reveal, and then just didn’t post till Ika basically turned the game on its head.
Plus this weird exchange:
"I'm pretty tilted at my misread of font, and font being scum changes my worldview so much that I'll need to re-evaluate the entire gamestate."
"You got complacent. Don't do it again."
Mentioned this before. Feels like fonti’s trying to townfirm him to us in this.

D3: His posts… Only 2 relevant ones.
In #528, his interaction analysis was interesting and not an analysis. It was IoA. There was no actual scumhunting. We have today’s lynch, but we’re trying to decide tomorrow’s, and he’s not helping that much.
In #536, he’s asking us to basically pretend he doesn’t have common sense. How does wanting Fonti to be Town make what he did believable? We’re also told to just ‘cept that he never tries to interpret hints. Weird.
Even so, I looked at it from a Town!Prophy perspective and it doesn’t really fit. These are not the moves of a veteran town player. They’re the moves of a newbie.
Generally just seems to be in the background now, trying to distance himself.

All in all, Nemrut is my biggest scumread, since he’s gone for all the scum pitfalls to the point he might as well be a case study, but if no one votes for him, I can see myself voting for Proph at this point.


And that’ll probably be the case, given that you find Nemrut to be Town. Can you give us any indication why? After you explain why you felt the same way for Schrodinger, I mean.

Also I’m almost afraid to ask, but why am I Town to you?
Fonti cited masochism. Prophy conviction.
You’re the most angrily logical player I know (props btw), so I assume you have something stronger.

--

And back to Lyrium (freakin’ franken posting. Yes, been trying to write this for a whileeee.)

To be fair, it wasn’t intended to be my main post, the day just got cut on me.
Sure. Does the above, as well as my post on Nemrut apply? I can give more if you want something specific, but that’s sort of my analysis.

OllieK wasn’t that strange in that he was the safe target. If Bill Door was Town, then he’d have protected the obvious targets. Plus I’m willing to believe there was some game spirit in that NK, since Zircon was doing his AWOL thing again. Well, that, and if he was replaced for someone competent, it hurt their chances. Might as well get rid of him before that happens.

The actual interesting thing that happened N1 is that they apparently already felt comfortable enough on Titus and Ika to try a rather daring double-assassination. Indicates someone picked up on their code. And since it was gibberish to me, it had to be someone that knew them a lot. Prophy claims he didn’t get it…if we’re willing to grant that maybe he didn’t, I’d want to know who else could understand that code.

Their next targets were Citrus and Caligula. Why try assassination for Caligula? I have no clue what made them thing Guru in him, with enough confidence to shoot themselves in the foot again, to risk freakin’ MAI. He was in that line where you thought ‘either really noob or scum’, so he shouldn’t have been a threat…meaning he was probably onto something. His targets were lexi and myself.
(Response, Lexi?)
Citrus is somewhat easy, he was grilling Schrodinger. Not sure if there was more to it than that.

People keep saying that XD (not in this game, last game they said that too).
I’ll repeat: Tutor is a very loose term. Fonti gave me the basics along with some advice. The rest was my own choices with no influences, learning by doing. I’m not making that up: You were given access to my QT at the end of Dresden. It’s all there.
That’s how I work. It’s probably why my play is still rough compared to yours.
However, like I mentioned something did catch my attention at the end of D1, which I was going to post in D2:

^This is what I removed from that post.

Went over the first above.
Right now we’re trying to figure out tomorrow’s target.

Well first of all, make sure it’s in the right hands. Townfirming you is as much priority as lynching.

Also above. Let me know if you want more.

Same. Go back to feisty Lyrium. Tell me to ‘not be fuckin’scum.’
Pleases remind me too much of your scum persona, and that’s not doing you favors.

Possible strategy:
Mass Claim once down to 4 players, assuming the game is still going then. A lot of it would ride on Zuko being alive still, and having a way to prove it’s him, as stated above.
I want everyone to tell me the pros and cons of this idea, and if they have suggestions to make it work, go right ahead.

Sorry for any typos, I’m not as good at sentence structure when drinking.
(Wine is a good thing.)

 

You're making one, big, incorrect assumption, Sloth. See if you can figure it out.

 

I did it in Witch Hunt - it basically sealed the fate of font!scum that game (had I actually pushed for the lynch)

I'll make one for Nemrut in the morning, too tired to do anything else than just respond (as well as pull up the stuff that felt weird + case Nemrut)

I play a PoE style of game.

When I play, I try to hunt town, and narrow down the pool of possible scum.

I'm not wishy washy - I like to approach Day 1 with at least a couple of solid townreads and a couple of scumreads.

I thought fontisian was town back on Day 1, mostly because I wanted her to be town, but also because I thought I could read fontisian really well based on Witch Hunt and hadn't noticed any problems with her. I pulled the gambit, and I interpreted the voting for me as a sign of townie shock.

Put yourself in that mindset, and stop misleading yourself with the "can't be convinced of another person's alignment". When I get townreads, I assume they're town until evidence proves they're not, later in the game. I just hastily cleared font.

I initially townread you because of your conviction regarding your first content post (it looked like you really believed that Titus was scum). You also tried to defang my case on Bill Door's RVS posts, when scum!Sloth could very easily could have barned the wagon.

In addition, high-effort newbies tend to be town - newb scum like to hide under cheeriness, fluff, and the noob card. Your posts are nothing like that.

fontisian also buddied up to you, which makes me doubt you're scum (scum usually don't buddy up w/their buddies). If you need more reasons I can go through your posts but that's what I have from my notes.

...

Why can't I be a veteran player with an overblown ego trying to solve the game on Day 1?

You're trying to interpret mental shortcuts I take as scummy. Why is turning assumptions into facts indicative of a scum mindset?

We lynch Schrodinger. Last scum soups everyone for the win. (Irony, that.)

Let me get back to you on that - I had a couple of plans at work today but I'm too tired to explain them right now.

I'm pretty convinced that the last scum is Nemrut, and I will case him tomorrow. He's a classic example of "fly on the wall" scum that hopes to lurk to endgame.

..

Can you explain more to this question? Like usually, if someone is townie then I'm usually not pressuring them (as in the case with fontisian, here!)

I will answer this more thoroughly in the moring but we are in lylo, and this part of the game should be treated as such.

They're just basically suicide bombing - causing virtual "mislynches" in which the scum kills a couple of people with soup and get revealed. It's analogous to "you cause a mislynch, you'll be bussed the next Day".

I have no idea about the Ollie NK and I'm going to dismiss it as WIFOM. Probably wanted to avoid a stronger player replacing in.

----

I'll get to Sloth's PBPAish thing in the morning.

---------- Post automerged at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 PM ----------

Capitalized Day - mafia days.

lowercase days - IRL days.

---------- Post automerged at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------

Lyrium, please do this:

 

Man, I sure wish Ika was here to end the day like an idiot, this shit just doesn't end.

 

Prophylaxis, I have already done that which is why I asked Nemrut and Lexicat those particular questions.

Sloth, Ika got angry and made a huge mistake for town. I also slipped up on day one because of anger and scum took advantage of that. My rantings can fill up my QT and entertain Zeit.

I'm trying to focus now on clearing the smoke and pinning down the last piece of scum garbage.

And trying to read my meta or game play from Dresden mafia is shit because I was a dumbfuck scum who wanted town to win. I will never be scum again, it's too stressful and survival itself is not a goal that motivates me. Having a cause or a sweet role does.

People who don't have a million better things to do could read my meta from the Survivor games. For a summary its: antagonize the enemy or the unknown, team work when you've got it narrowed down.

A part of me wishes the Bill Door was the first scum, lucky hit and all because if people don't talk then I have to start getting violent and we are trying to cut down on the crazy instead of encouraging it.

Also, just what the fuck happened to you that getting bitched at inspires you? And make sure your posts in the future are the right font color or I'll pull out your spine and beat you to do death with it.

Finally, I thought about mass claiming and the number of scenarios where it doesn't work are many. Will discuss in a bit.

Schrodinger, I had such warm fuzzy feelings for you from the Survivor game. Now just disgust.

 

Every time we're on a team together, we just seem to lose, don't we?

 

Guys, I need more feedback. Someone other than me needs to be analyzing Prophy’s points (and Lyrium’s) so that I can compare notes with an outsider’s perspective and see if I’m full of crap.

Also, where’s Nemrut. He’s been quiet since my rebuttal at the wee morning hours of yesterday and there’s less than 10 hours left in the Day.


@Prophy

Look, I’m trying not to harp on this, I really am, but you’re not making it easy.
How can you PoE in D1? Titus said the exact same thing to explain why I was scum, and it made zero sense then too.
But I could ignore that, you’re more experienced and maybe you can do something like that with very little info and before half the players have even interacted in the game and given you data, fine.
Except how the hell is wanting her to be town valid reasoning to townfirm her? Much less your BIGGEST reason? Want has nothing to do with analysis.
I’m trying to put myself in that mindset, but it makes no sense to me. Anyone feel free to correct me. Anyone always feel free to correct me.

Finally, an explanation for my Townie status.
…Ok, I can buy that, though piece of advice, never use the standard newb attitude as a measuring stick for my actions. I always do my own thing.

I’ll let this nice, oddly British gentleman take this one:

Because this is Mafia. There’s no such thing as a veteran with an ego. They’re all twitchy and overtly paranoid.
(This one’s a joke. (Every good joke has a root in truth.))

If I’m to be completely honest, I’m not sure you’re scum, and have a gut feel telling me you aren’t. But that gut feel clashes with logic, and that’s never a battle it’s going to win.
Still, I’m really hesitant to lynch you before Nemrut, who more and more just seems like the obvious target. Occam’s Razor dilemma.

--

@Lyrium

Ugh. I know. For the record, this is the very reason I insisted not to engage confirmed scum.
It makes us stupid. Make no mistake, Fonti went out winning an important scum victory. We’d have a much clearer picture of the third Scum if not for her and ika’s trigger-happy move.

Well 1: I said you being nice was too much like the scum!you. Not a single clue where you got ‘inspiration’ out of that. XD
2: I just plain like strong-willed women. It’s fun to clash with them and wrestle for dominance. Either that or watch them get more and more pissed as anything they do washes over me and I continue to smile politely. I am the king of the mindfuck.
(3: Will do.)

You never did give any feedback to my reasoning for you not to have been NK’d.

--

At this point, I feel we might need a confirmed Town that everyone can agree on.
And I’ve figured out a way to townfirm myself pretty firmly without revealing my role, until at least Tomorrow, and by then the game will likely be on its last legs anyway, so I’m ok being Assassinated then.
Does anybody feel they need that in order to remove all doubt of my alignment, or are you all comfortable in the knowledge of me being Town?

--

Waiting on Prophy’s analysis of Nemrut and my…PBPA? (I wouldn’t call it that either, but close enough). Lyrium’s Mass Claim analysis, and anything Lexicat will have to say whenever she posts, hopefully in response to the questions posed to her.

 

Sloth, you're lucky I'm in a good mood and willing to skim your walls.

The bad news is this: I don't explain townreads. Explaining townreads in an anti-town practice. I've been over this in a previous DLP game (you weren't in it), so it's not like I'm just making this up to placate you. I assure you that something in Lyrium's posting has made me relax on her and focus more on Proph and Nermut. In addition, your posting is just town. Not explaining for many of the same reasons. Same with Nermut.

Anyway, Let's talk about "who do we lynch today". If Lyrium is scum, and we lynch incorrrectly, the game is over. However, if lyrium is TOWN and we lynch incorrrectly, her Joo Dee vote will actually keep us alive. This means we have an extra day to lynch scum, assuming Lyrium is town (hint: she is).

Which MEANS, we do the following plan: We lynch Proph today, spirits protect Lyrium tonight, we lynch Schrodinger tomorrow and win the game. If somehow, that DOES NOT win us the game, I think we end up in a 3 person lylo, which we SHOULD WIN as long as Zuko is alive, which obviosuly we can't count on, but there we go.

Thoughts? concerns? am I counting wrong? this setup is complex as fuck.

---------- Post automerged at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

BTW, we only have like 7 and a half hours until deadline. So if we're gonna make this big play, we gotta make it now.

---------- Post automerged at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 PM ----------

infact,
Lynch Vote: Proph

Let's do this.

 

Lexicat! Excitement.

I'm so obviously town that its scary.

Sloth, to answer your points about the NK:

Ok, so let's start out with the possibilities of why I wasn't NKed:

1. I was the most ob!Town player Day 1 as in most town read me clearly. Therefore, if Bill Door was a mislynch then he most likely would protect me. It seems more and more likely that he was a mislynch esp. since Prophylaxis slipped with that.

2. Day 2 ended early but both Caligula and Citrus had pretty much pointed to scum other than me. Again, scum wouldn't risk an obvious protected target.

3. Scum find my scum read (Prophylaxis ) hilarious and want to keep me alive as it takes the heat off the real scum.

4. Scum find my scum read accurate and think that killing me might cause town to focus in on it.

5. Scum read my role and decided to got after bigger threats since on Day 1 I did some "Last words RP" which I should have refrained from. Zeit deleted it but Fontisian and some others did see it.

Now that they have their protection piercing kill though, the game has changed up a bit.

Will keep going.

 

Lyrium, talk to me. Let's fucking win this game. Put the game on our back and just lynch Proph. If we don't lynch Schrodinger today, I significantly doubt you will die tonight and we can't lose this game as long as you're alive tomorrow.

 

Sloth, onto the mass claiming:

Based on what Titus said only three roles were confirmable: The Governor (dead), Cabbage Man (spoke so he's alive right now), and Iroh (can only speak once in the game, don't know if he's alive or dead).

The only publicly confirmed Town roles to have died are Titus(Governor), Ika (Toph).

That leaves: Aang, Katara, Pathik, Jet, Sokka, and Zuko.

With four players remaining optimal mass claim situation would be Cabbage and Iroh making their noise. Aang and Katara...what to say about how many ways this can have been fucked?

However, how to confirm which of the remaining are alive or dead? Do you see? The scum could luck out and claim a role that is dead (Caligula or Citrus) but which wasn't revealed. Iroh may also be dead.

Imagine how close town was to losing last game because Citrus claimed Dresden. I mean it was Titus that made that victory by sticking to her gut.

How would I confirm my role? How would I believe your role claim? If there are three players left, then it may make more sense but with soup in the game its such a big risk.

After all all we have to do is take a misstep, lynch the wrong person after role claiming and the scum fucking soups us to death.

There should be a one or two time soup max in a mafia game. This game has some built in pro scum mechanics and yes its way to complex.

So far you and me are the only ones who have been scum hunting or posting enough content (also did you pick on Prophylaxis "town hunting" like what the fuck is that?). Look at the content of my posts and read my mindset, its pro-town even if a little wild.

Lexicat I feel better about after the last post but I won't town!firm her until the very end.

Lexicat, scum can talk during the day together. That is what I asked about in QT. As Fontisian said they have some sort of scum chat or something. Does that in any way change your plan?

Finally, with Ika's sacrifice in that he basically committed suicide to make sure we get the one scum in the hand...I'm a little unsure of the plan to lynch Prophylaxis first. Unless more reasons?

I'd like to put Schrodinger on the noose and watch him hang.

Sloth, if we can town!firm each other to some extent then we can make it to end game. If you're town then we'll be the last man and woman standing. If you're scum then town wins. I'm town so there's no other possibility.

Also tell me what you think of Lexicat's idea.

 

Hmmmm.... I wonder. Dead people wouldn't be able to post but...

Mod: Can dead infiltators see what the live infiltrators are posting? i.e: Could a scumbag who is alive tell a dead scum when to use their piercing, even if they can't post themselves?

---------- Post automerged at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

Lyrium, I PROMISE you. The best plan today is to lynch Proph.

 

Lexicat, some Vaatu bs that means that even with the spirits protection a dead infiltrator can pierce kill me or something retarded like that.

"{Dark Spirits} At the start of Night, a dead Infiltrator may summon Dark Spirits under the jurisdiction of Vaatu, the Spirit of Chaos, and send them to assist the Living Infiltrators, allowing their Kills to pierce the Spirit World’s Protection for that Night. After summoning Dark Spirits, the deceased Infiltrator may not vote any further in Spirits chat (but are still allowed to post in it). Living players are not informed of Dark Spirits being summoned."

---------- Post automerged at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

I mean majority of Spirits are town but one dead scum can basically overcome all of them? How does that work? Boo.

 

I know, Lyrium, but I bet you ANYTHING, that since a) all the inflitrators can use their ability once and b) Schrodinger conirmed hiimself as scum, that Fonti probably used her piercing last night.

Do you agree? See that logic?

---------- Post automerged at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------

Lyrium, seriously, I know I'm not wrong. I PROMISE you. I've spent like, hours thinking about this. I even had a fucking DREAM about it last night, no joke.

This is the right play. We win this game today when we lynch Proph.

---------- Post automerged at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

Sloth, I see you lurking around. Don't give me one of your silly walls. Just talk to me!