@Sloth: Not really, it's just fun to point out. Since Rubicon said way back when that he'd fight ika to be NK'd before him or something.

@Riley: the last Day end link provided doesn't work, is it the same as the one in the start of Day 4 post?

 

I've been re-reading the game. My current thoughts are: Sloth and Monochrome are still town. I'm reviewing MathBlade's posts for motive because I know I've been falling into the trap of confirmation bias with my town-reads, but the main thing that jumps out to me is the incredible conviction she seems to have in what she's saying. Citrus pointed this out too.

I think it's between Atum and Snowvon. On the one hand, I don't think Dermon would have written #520 about a partner - but, I can practically feel the intentional WIFOM dripping off that post. It's more likely an attempt to make a townie look suspicious. On the other hand, it's very weird the way Atum mentions Dermon so much (and negatively!) early on.

Snowvon is my first guess. The quick vote-unvote Dermon does on him is really, really bad in retrospect. His reaction to this modkill is also the only one that jumps out to me as bad, because he's the only one who isn't adjusting reads and reanalyzing everyone else in terms of the new information.

Gosh, you think? This is just bad acting, I'm sorry. Like if I read the last 3 pages without reference to the rest of the game, I would lynch Snowvon for his reaction to the flip and be done with it.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I think I've been really fucking up by letting Snowvon get away with doing absolutely nothing in the way of scumhunting this game. It's particularly bad for me because when I was going to be a mentor before the game started I wrote an essay about how the best way to scumhunt is to force other people to scumhunt, because it's hard for scum to fake it convincingly, and I haven't been doing that because I thought Snowvon was playing like he does on IRC... but this isn't IRC and everyone else from IRC is scumhunting.

One other thing: Dermon's top three scum-reads in 397 are ika (town), TerRaine (town), and Snowvon (???). fontisian says that newbie scum always put one scum buddy in lists like these, and it's usually true. On the other hand she might have mentored them to avoid this mistake if it's Dermon/Atum.

Also, whichever of you it is, sorry about the modkill - that's shitty luck. If it's any consolation, unless he'd been replaced by a really strong player we probably would have lynched him sooner or later anyway.

 

You've been townreading me this entire time based on my IRC play? Why haven't you ever mentioned that before? It can't hurt to give your read a bit more context. And I'm sorry, but I don't actually buy that you let me bounce along the thread for this long because of IRC. Sloth has been yelling at me for almost eighty pages and you're just now thinking "hmm, everyone else from IRC is scumhunting except Snow, I should probably push him some more?" Please.

You said if Citrus flipped town I could do whatever I want. And I do still think you're scum, so. It's not complete bullshit.

Also great job at trying to get people riled up at my shitty play without actually voting for me. Where were you when Sloth wanted to lynch me on Day 1?

 

Nah, I mostly town-read you for sounding sincere in reaction to ika and Sloth's pressure early on. IRC meta is basically why I didn't freak out at your lack of scumhunting. The problem is, everyone left in the game has sounded super sincere at one point. (Atum sounded sincerely irritated at Titus, for example.) And you don't sound sincere today.

You don't need my permission, Snowvon.

 

Sorry, Day Ends at this time!

 

Atum: Why do you think TerRaine was shot?

---------- Post automerged at 12:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 AM ----------

This paragraph is pretty bad too - you're worried about and trying to explain your own interactions with dead scum.

---------- Post automerged at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------

Quick copy-paste from my notes to explain - unaligned pairs:

Sloth/Atum - wagons, 'I usually disagree with your reads and your reasoning', discrediting
Sloth/Snowvon - condescension post early on,
Atum/MathBlade - compromise lynch, "Why Mathblade? Looking back the negligible contributions seem pretty normal for him as town, even in WiFom." (unlikely defense) and attacks today
Sloth/MathBlade - buddying in 453 doesn't look scum-scum, also for the number of scum incident - the way she cleared him after looked unaligned (#484)
Snowvon/MathBlade - #466

With Monochrome as probably town, this leaves two possibilities, mbond98 is scum (with anyone) or the team is Snowvon/Atum.

I asked those two to explain their reads on each other and put a ???? at mbond98 in the hopes he would show up.

 

Still not seeing yellow.

? There is no team anymore. Two wolves total, and one of them (mbond) is dead.

 

Notes from earlier, explaining the questions.

---------- Post automerged at 01:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 AM ----------

Vote: Snowvon

Not against an Atum lynch if someone wants to hit him first.

 

...so i wrote a clear response to Sloth's questions to me but it's literally almost 2000 words. fucking hell let me try to make it actually readable

---------- Post automerged at 01:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------

...but i wrote all of those words for a reason. ohmygod

---------- Post automerged at 01:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 AM ----------

re: #1284
When I wrote this post, my reads were kind of a hot mess of jumbled impressions of 60 pgs of STUFF. So, my objectives for that post (and the rest of the Day, really) was to be an active participant in the game, to offer a fresh perspective and pressure anyone that seemed to be skating. I had a null read on Atum as of that post (and had skimmed several of his posts tbh - what bugged me about him at the time is in my first real paragraph in #1312) but was surprised how many people had him at the top of their town lists when I found him p MOR/2 be a sk8r boi. As I stated in that post, I expected more from Citrus based on IRC meta and thought he was kinda scummy, as I'd experienced him there as way less emotional and him having really strong analysis but wanted forum meta confirmation from other people.

It was important to me to start with a vote since people not voting til day-end had seemed to be a problem. I felt a little weird voting mbond since it's not like I could ask him to defend Dervon's stances, but Dervon had both not been pressured much and was scummy to me, and was where my vote would've been if not for the replacement, so I just kinda tossed it there.

Uh, as for the Snowvon line - (1) there'd been a few posts that pinged me as town from him D1 so i didn't care as much about pressuring him as i did some other people (2) i couldn't remember anything specific i actually wanted to ask him except what his actual reads were since he'd not been super clear on it during D2 that i could remember (3) Rubicon was in the process of grilling him (4) I have it in my notes that I thought that the Lyrium kill was either trying to incriminate Snowvon or was b/c Snowvon was scum (I also have a note about Citrus w/r/t that kill) but I don't actually remember why I thought that!

---------- Post automerged at 01:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 AM ----------

re: why i voted Atum when i did

I remember being a bit taken aback after my 1st post that both you and MB seemed to be finding Atum scummier all of a sudden - I was actually expecting there to be resistance to me calling him out, and I didn't much like your reasoning in #1283 against him. I proceeded to get super paranoid that you were scum since I was surprised you hadn't been nightkilled over Titus, but I found your response to me in #1300 genuine as hell and extremely reassuring to me that you were town after I read back through your Atum stances.

Around then Titus was somewhat encouraging me to push Rubicon, which isn't to say that she told me what to say at all, but it's what made me think about his play specifically enough for that string of questions - (err, this isn't totally chronological but it's on subject - his responses later just seemed to indicate poor reading comprehension on my end, and Titus encouraging me to keep pushing felt confirmation biasy which made me all waffleywaffles.)

Uh, and then I got bored of having my vote not actually functioning as a pressure vote, and so I decided to sheep you onto Atum because he was lurking, I wanted to un-null him, I had the 2 things from #1312 that I wanted addressed and no one had responded to me re:Citrus. My "let's wagonhop" was b/c I hadn't actually totally read Atum's posts and what I'd seen was, well, a lot of null

---------- Post automerged at 01:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 AM ----------

re: engaging w Atum and #1374
By #1364 I had changed my mind on what I thought about Atum posting that case after Night had fallen - I thought that the lack of awareness about day and night phases lined up with his Day 2 play - it made sense for a VT to be less clear about the distinction between day, twilight and night.

Atum responded to the other part of my argument in #1368 and his phrasing seemed self-assured to me ("look again") and he did account for what I'd thought was a misrep-y/mudslingy stance on ika. In-between there in #1369 and a little before that, I'm trying to get Rubicon to give me some perspective on Citrus.

It's in #1374 that it hit me that, oh my god, we have 16 hours til deadline and I hadn't really felt the time pressure and there is still so little I understand about this thread and my reads all suck and I need to be putting a vote on someone and I'm sick need to sleep but wish I didn't so I had time to read the fucking thread. "If anyone's around and their head isn't exploding and willing to discuss this subject w/ me then <333" <-- this is w/r/t Citrus, but is indicative that i was stressed as fuck and just wanted someone to give me a hug and help me get reads. As is "i really fuckin need to reread Day 2 and look @ everyone's ika stances" and my question about MB buddying me. I was "fine with" Atum and basically had him back as null - I spoke of moving my vote since I wanted to go read back and vote someone who I actually thought was scum.

---------- Post automerged at 01:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------

re: #1379
#1379 was what came out of my D2 reread and the conversation I was having with Titus in my QT - she thought Citrus was town and Rubicon was scum, which stressed me out due to the NK WIFOM and due to me having respect for her reads/play, which just exacerbated my attitude about the game in general. Citrus and Rubicon going at each other was what felt like the main event of D3 and it was freaking me out that I hadn't sorted it, esp. with so many people saying that one of them was probscum. I started to feel better about Citrus's play after that reread, but then as I was falling asleep, went to go meta Rubicon since he'd asked for that and meta is how I'm most comfortable trying to read people. I kinda had it in my head that one of them seeming town made the other scummier which isn't necessarily true? But what I did read about Rubicon made me go back to leaning town on him

---------- Post automerged at 01:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 AM ----------

re: #1389 and the citrus vote
So I'd woken up an hour after my class started, was groggy and freaking out about that, and then while I'm getting out of bed/etc., Citrus being scum comes to mind. So I go to class and then sign on here as soon as reasonably possible, catch up in thread really quick, and then make that post because holy shit, I meant to wake up EARLY so i had time to read/think, not overlseep til a couple of hours before deadline. I at that point wasn't really sure who I wanted to lynch - I wished I'd had more time to question mbond and Citrus and tons of fucking other people since I'm not used to forum mafia at this pace.

I was freaked out by MB making a serious suggestion of no lynch and I think in my emotional state that scared me off of wanting an Atum wagon. I think I also felt weird lynching Atum when I hadn't read his posts enough to actually know if I thought he was scum since I didn't have time, and it had read to me like you thought Snowvon/other people were scummier and were just voting Atum for pressure reasons - so I felt bad locking us into an Atum wagon when it seemed like even the people voting him weren't really sold on it other than MB, and nobody that I remembered seemed interested in an Atum lynch (apparently TerRaine was, but I didn't get that til after the flip.) That post coming at the time when it did was literally because that's what time it was when I was first able to access a computer.

I started writing down what lynches were viable and which weren't, based on what I remembered off the top of my head of people's suspicions, and I found MB's claim that the only possible lynch was Atum to be out of place, since FMPOV she was the only one that actually wanted to when I thought about it. I think my viable compromise lynch list had Rubicon and as more universally scumread than Atum (I had mbond89 and Snowvon as viable lynches that had no votes on them), and I found it weird that MB didn't go for Rubicon who was even more viable and who I thought was her top scumread at the time. So I panicked a little and was racking my brain for who I, deep down, really thought was scum. And the weird gut read from when I first woke up kept sticking with me. I actually seriously considered trying to get mbond lynched because I thought it was pragmatic since I didn't want him anywhere near lylo and I thought his predecessor was p scum. I was still hella waffling b/c I had some reasons to think Citrus was town and wished I had more time to work through shit, but in the end, I ended up voting Citrus. (Also, since MB had just posted and was presumably still around, I felt like the wagons were essentially equivalent in # of votes.)

If I recall correctly, I planned on being online off and on basically until deadline, and so I partly switched wagons for reaction test reasons - I would've gotten back on Atum if needed, but it bothered me that just because Atum had 2 votes on him we were suddenly forced to be lynching him at deadline, I guess?

---------- Post automerged at 01:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 AM ----------

regretting the lynch
People freaking out at me over my sudden vote and Citrus's end of day posts made me start stressing the fuck out again and I don't know, once MB hammered it just felt wrong and I really didn't want to be wrong because then I felt that all the lost sleep and not paying attention in class and everything else I had put into the game at that point was for nothing and that I should've just let my slot be modkilled since I'd just fucked the town over by trying to play. So I keymashed. #1438 was out of frustration - thanks for saying I'm a competent player w/r/t that, not sure I agree (and I definitely wouldn't have agreed with someone saying that to me at the time.)

---------- Post automerged at 01:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 AM ----------

so yeah
can we move the fuck on and realize that there's not really a scum motivation for me having done that and drawing a fuckton of attention to myself when i'm now confirmably not Atum's partner? i don't deny that it's erratic as it was a really emotional decision, but yeah, i'd like to bring my focus to catching the last scum and away from writing essays about how bad i am at mafia

sorry that i did not rly succeed @ making that shorter

on the bright side mbond actually was scum and that makes me feel good about myself

---------- Post automerged at 03:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 AM ----------

Uhhh. So I actually just iso'd Dermon and felt like reading into connections wasn't really helping me (what'd be more useful is seeing how other people treat his slot, I'd actually think), but that's not really my strong point in general so I'm going to finish up the questions I'd been in the process of. It's prob not Rubicon/Dermon though - Rubi calling him townish and then re-evaluating near the end of D1 seems genuine to me, plus the continual questions / supertownread / voting+unvoting thing...just isn't my first choice lynch choice here.

Speaking of which, hi Rubicon.

This quote was when you were addressing ika back on Day 2. Uh, when you explictly tell someone it's a pressure wagon, don't you end up weakening its effect? I'm not sure I'm getting you.

In #958, you say that the Lyrium kill makes a newbie-newbie team unlikely. Now that Dermon's flipped, do you have any thoughts on this?

Err, sounds weird/not genuine to me that both these statements are in the same post. Try to explain?

+ Wait, why Atum as #2? Elaborate.

---------- Post automerged at 03:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 AM ----------

I have a couple of posts noted for Sloth but I have no idea what I even wanted to bring up. I do remember Sloth questioning people's Dermon scumreads throughout the game. But yeah I think Sloth is more than likely just town.

Atum, how do you get from MathBlade as #2 town in 1235 to MathBlade as your #2 choice for scum in #1461? Why was Snowvon below mbond? (lol @ me being on there twice btw)

---------- Post automerged at 03:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 AM ----------

snooooooowvon.

Why didn't you ever slap a vote on Rubicon or Citrus on D2?

^ Considering you think he's scum, why do you think he's been doing this?

idgi re the titus thing

Were you actually expecting him to get shot if he was town? Lol

 

WARNING: I'm about to write a long ass post. I inherited the Titus gene. Explaining the frame job and my read wall is going to take a significant amount of words so I ask you to not TLDR it. It may take about 15-20 minutes to make sure the formatting from Word to here is good. It will be about 2800 words when broken up into 3 more manageable chunks.

@Delphine: Mine says 2053 in word and I read every word.

---------- Post automerged at 08:50 ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 ----------

The frame job.
In order to put this into context let’s take a look at the lynches so far.

Maiden – Day one lynches always are sucky and almost always town but in this case the lynch was started by ika. Pretty much screwed by the day 1 somewhat active yet inactivity randomizer gods. Note Sloth hammers it. It looks like at first very good town play to get the lynch, but not if he's scum. Then it's a hammer to force the mislynch.

Ika – Says he’s willing to go to the lynch for what he believes but crumbles under pressure which is pretty scummy in the way he did it. His entire play was memes and antagonistic so it was smart for town to do it in a newbie game but again easy lynch. Sloth sheeps it.

Citrus – This is where it gets interesting. Votes be dropping like flies in various directions but the Rubicon/Citrus war takes focus. Rubicon/Citrus/Atum were the likely suspects as no one else really gathered momentum. Rubicon sticks with his guns albeit incorrect which is a town move. Then when I suggest compromise lynch and the whole Delphine switch vote issue happens, Sloth immediately follows to Citrus. He doesn’t even try to convince Delphine or ask why or anything. Very uncharacteristic of Sloth as he usually pokes and prods the hell out of people before a lynch. He just tags along on the other votes and says it’s worth investigating after the fact. He has now also primed people to realize why the hell wasn’t Atum lynched??! It’s setting up another easy town lynch and if he can lead this one he can try to ride it for townie cred.

The night kills:
Lyrium - https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=722332&postcount=806 Lyrium in her last post gives a scum player a middle finger, she dies….I think Sloth and Dermon lucked out that she was the seer or thought that Lyrium would likely check Sloth so they killed her pre-emptively. (Off tpic Veronica Mars/Kristen Bell awesome..Love the attitude Allison Scagliotti though is hotter *sigh*)

Titus – I think this one was done as a get rid of one of the best player move. No one had Sloth believably suggested at this point and Titus is a brilliant wild card, one Sloth can’t control. There would be very limited windows in which to kill her and the flame war that erupted between myself gave him the cover to do that. This wasn’t so much a strategic move based off of her reads but a strategic move to get rid of someone who might reveal him end game.

Terraine – https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=721245&postcount=343 She was a less active player yes, but she had random ramblings of potential Sloth in her beginning play. Since Sloth/the scum knew that their buddy would likely be modkilled he has to play as if he will be the only one at endgame. This shifts things dramatically. Combining this with his effort to find replacements which I haven’t seen him do in other games, Terraine seemed like a good bet to go with.

Current day:
This brings us to day four where no one is suspecting Sloth and he’s going on his Atum train even after a mod reveal and even though he has said he’s suspected Snow since day one. If you’ve really suspected him since day one wouldn’t that make him the stronger suspect. Sure Atum isn’t exactly helping town but this is completely weird when put into context.


PART TWO OF REALLY LONG ASS POSTS UPCOMING WITH RESPONSES TO SLOTH'S QUESTIONS. I DIDN'T SEE ANY OTHERS.

---------- Post automerged at 08:52 ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 ----------

First the simple one -- Yes when I ask you questions I want them answered. I generally don't ask rhetorical questions in mafia only real life...Don't know why you had time to write all these questions but then dodge mine but I don't waste my breath. You posted that I have bullshit arguments but yet you continually ask me for them, the frame job for example, and about why the lynch came fast you complimented it. It doesn’t make sense you say I have horrible arguments and then sheep/compliment them.

And yes...I was pissed at Riley. Because of a couple of reasons. The first is what he put in my QT. I don't have anything other than that without breaking the rules on the modconf thing. Bastardized mod IMO is a piece of shit for newbie games and I believe Riley did that so the appropriate response to bastard mod gaming in a newbie environment should be those three letters or some other flavor there of. The second is two players outright insult me in the thread which is illegal and I point it out and he does NOTHING. This is supposed to be a newbie thread and instead what I see is a bastardized mod game with people getting so involved they insult each other all in the name of "winning". This isn't for a million dollars or a new car or rent for a month...It's for "bragging rights" that will last approximately 1.2 seconds (give or take a few days). I may say something is a derp but I do not and will not ever say someone's personality will cause them to lose or someone is too "dense" to play the game correctly. When players are this vicious it can be pretty hard to keep newbies invested into the game and playing. There's a fine line and I think this game has crossed it numerous times. So after all this, pissed is a pretty fair assessment wouldn't you say? I was trying to keep my anger in and I just couldn't any more. But I'm trying to move on for the sake of the game so I'm asking, just please drop the Riley pissed and move on. Yes I was pissed. This was clear from context and almost everyone else saw it. You are the genius at recognizing context being the psychologist. So why didn’t you?



SPACE FOR LIKELY MERGE

---------- Post automerged at 08:56 ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 ----------

Please see below for the readwall. Sloth, Rubicon, and Atum in that order are my picks for lynch with needing a pretty damn good reason not to lynch Sloth needed to move to one of the other two.

1 being towny town 6 being scummy scum I am 1 well because duh I am town.

Person: Monochrome Believed Alignment: Town, 2 Post justification:

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724242#post724242 Timing of first post in comparison with the people replaced makes her unlikely to be scum.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724295#post724295 Genuinely questions people everyone thought as town. Sample here is Sloth.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724390#post724390 Another sample of treating everyone equally and pushing everyone.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724301#post724301 Attempts to understand my logic and sees where I’m coming from even though disagreeing. Also asks for Dermon read which she should by all means take that townie credit for.
General Thoughts: Almost mathematically impossible for her to be scum.



Person: Sloth Believed Alignment: 6.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=721245&postcount=343 If Terraine was right she deserves cookies
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=721012&postcount=223 Why is Sloth curious about why a newbie went after Rubicon? The newbie has no meta to build from. Why is he NOT curious about any of the other votes. This curiousness makes me wonder about Sloth’s alignment here and since we know the wolf had a prechat with Dermon this seems all the more damning after reroll.


https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724418#post724418 Sloth when I've seen him normally is a rules junkie and likes everything in order. Precision instead of chaos. Why did he let this go? Normally I'd expect at least a stronger reaction from someone more orderly. Also if he's being mentored by Fonti, a claim that seems to get more validity, I can't see where Fonti would have recommended a play of breaking the rules. If the mentor knew what Atum was going to do then Atum's mentor would have had to be a pretty shitty mentor to condone or agree with having him post late.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724406#post724406 Posting this doesn't seem like a skim when using posts from the entire game. It also seems like a damning argument for any scum now that we know none of them were interacting with Dermon. Why did he pick a null interaction? Was it because he wasn't interacting with Dermon? This "skim" comes out of left field. At the same time this seems like a lot of effort for scum to do. This post is a post that can be made to seem either town or scum depending on arguments.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=725405&postcount=1530 This seems really fucking weird of Sloth. He asks for a few minutes to change his analysis of Terraine dead and this implies he already had most of this written. Has he not heard of a refresh button? If he already had most of this written why did he not get one nice neat orderly post with all of the days thoughts. This also implies he had this written already and needed to tweak it. Like he had a manufactured argument made up. And if his argument was already made up why did he not refresh the thread and read it through? It's like he skips over all of day 4 and goes "hugs...awesome...Let's get in on some of this hugginess" instead of making his argument make sense with the thread. It also could be used to try to distance himself from mbond by asking what the hell is going on with him.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=725407&postcount=1532 This looks like a "let's cast everyone as scum" play. This makes me severely doubt his Atum claims. If he's so confident that Atum is scum why is he not voting for Atum? He didn't have this confidence in the prior days and still voted for him. Furthermore, he has been piggying off of my reasoning and then using it quite often while saying my reads are bullshit. Which one is it Sloth? You can't very well say you see nothing useful and then come back and use my Delphine argument pressure someone. You yourself even admitted it's worth looking into. I think the other reason is that too many people have you down as town I think everyone does but you knew I was going to have to reread that thread when mbond came down. Almost no one else would question you as scum right now except maybe Atum and that could be another reason you have him as your top lynch candidate.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724816#post724816 Why did he take my last minute unless explanation given out of context? Furthermore if he believed this why didn't he push me harder? This almost seems like the buddying that I'm being accused of but instead HE's doing it. His entire scum argument for me feels like it is a premeditated defense of why he isn't buddying and why I am (which is well truthful) but why the hell did he not call me out on it? The truth of the matter is I think he was being a nice scum and letting me play for once and Titus's argument of if you don't change your personality you are going to get lynched day one seems a hell of a lot more valid now. Too bad my personality isn't something I can change because it's well...my personality :/ General thoughts: Why did he not readjust after mbond died? Same question for snowvon earlier. A scum being shown that was not in your potential scum before should at least change your arguments if not the person, but Sloth goes along the same vein. I'm not sure if this is just because I was so wrong before that I'm questioning a bit too much or that it is because Sloth is actually scum. He does seem the most likely though considering the amount of skill required with these night kills. Like everyone else claimed before about Titus, I doubt Fonti or Door or whoever his mentor is would tell him who to kill. I could buy a discussion but there could be a batshit long argument made about how each kill makes sense for Sloth but that would make an uber long post even longer when I think I'm already in danger of TLDR.


https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=721232&postcount=333 Anyone joking to anyone else about not answering questions about themselves deserves scrutiny IMO…No real push here though.



Person: Rubicon Believed Alignment: 4.5


https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=720995&postcount=216 Townie argument. Right after reroll and prechat Dermon comes in with a Rubicon vote. Either way probably planned with scum partner to possibly get flashwagon on a potential weapon. When Rubicon hasn’t yet suspected the duo, they keep him around, like they keep me around, this post is almost damning for a Sloth is scum.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=724449&postcount=1343 Still not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing here but the fact he wants to help out newbies this much is a good sign.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=724432&postcount=1336 Posts a genuine belief in Citrus scum and runs with it but was wrong so that's negative points but what really shines here is the willingness to lynch mbond. No one else was even bringing up mbond. Why offer up your scum partner when it is extremely damning to you in the long run.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=724346&postcount=1306 While this is a Sloth post this makes a good argument for why Rubicon is town now. If Sloth thought Rubicon was lying, why didn't he pressure him more? Was it because Sloth KNOWS Rubicon is town. His pressure reads as noted earlier seem extremely off. (Another example is if he thought Snowvon was coasting that is a lot harder to go for why is he going for the easy lynch in Atum?) Softball questions This is another reason he is at a three is because these really are more towards getting Atum to be able to demonstrate he's town rather than scumhunting. Would really like to see some of your traditional scumhunting Rubicon.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=725471&postcount=1542 The lynching sooner or later argument, I find kind of bullshit. We were on mislynch and lose if mbond was town and modkilled. No one had him there and we may have never lynched him due to one tracking Atum. He has been defending Atum all game, what made him change his mind? I don't see justification and between that and the softball questions this looks pretty weird General thoughts: On the side of town is this: I went a little overboard on the whole reexamine Titus thing and the Atum/Rubicon scum team made a lot of sense when there were two scums out. However with the other scum being mbond having Rubicon as a partner doesn't add up with some of the posts but they could have been placed intentionally thinking the current wouldn't hold or taking town cred for bussing. On the side of scum is some of the logic and arguments he's making reek of self awareness and the whole Citrus is scum thing is still on my mind.


Person: Snowvon Believed Alignment: 3 Post justification:


https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=721103&postcount=270 Another townie that’s still around that Dermon had a day one vote on….Let me know if you notice the pattern.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=725382&postcount=1517 To go from Atum scum to suddenly flip to Rubicon with Maybe. Maybe seems pretty fishy to me. If there's justification I'd buy it but there really isn't. You had a great PBPA almost hoping that someone would buy into Atum but when no one was voting then you do Rubicon and then post mbond flip you don't reevaluate? I don't know if you believe this vote, it's a pressure vote or what but something is up here.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=724489&postcount=1355 I like the laid back nature you add to the game but seriously…The flirting and probable tag changes is a bit overboard and seem like distraction and they keep changing to involve rainbows and other stuff. Don't get me wrong rainbows in real life are friggin awesome but spam like this makes it harder to find when you are being genuine and when you aren't.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=725384&postcount=1519 Calling out Sloth being missing is a good play when he hadn't posted he'd be offline, just that he was feeling burnt out. For Sloth to not explain that when he came back I like this callout.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=724800&postcount=1432 This is a pretty good town argument…He didn't cater one way or the other for mbond lynch but did mention a minimum post requirement. If he was scum why would he risk the mod killing mbond? Could see a lynch and townie cred but risking a modkill seems like a bold gambit.
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=725475&postcount=1543 Props on righteous townie?? anger.

General thoughts: Potential town derp but there's a lot that needs to be explained here that on the surface looks like some scum tells.



Person: Atum Believed Alignment: 3.5 Post justification:

Unfortunately due to his lack of town play I really can't find anything to defend him that well except that this looks like a scum frame job the more I look at this. I wish I had protown posts to back up this point but Atum almost staunchly refuses to do anything protown. Based on how the lynches are going I almost think that Atum was being set up and I almost lost us the game makes me feel horrible. That being said I am thinking about being okay to lynch him because 1) not helping town and 2) my entire argument for him being town is WIFOM and gut and neither of which justify not lynching someone who is a detriment to town.







NEEDING LOTS OF SPACE TO PUT MY VOTE AT THE END TO MAKE IT VISIBLE TO SCROLLERS/SKIMMERS.












VOTE SLOTH



---------- Post automerged at 09:38 ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 ----------

P.S. Saw you Sloth

 

@Rubicon

I brought up the bit about Dermon's scumreads myself, but I also brought up something important: There's only 2 wolves in this game. Having your scummate be your read is all well and good if it's more than one, but do you really think they would with only 2?
Also, what do you make of my theory that if Burkion was scum, his partner would have to be extremely experienced to not give himself away instantly? Burkion can be changed for dermon/mbond in this setting due to the first's little contribution and the second's zero contributions, and while Snow has been...falling apart at D1, that was back when Dermon was active, so not a result of it.
Plus he's technically gotten better as the game went on, rather than unravel further.

It's great that you want to lynch Atum now, but I want to hear, in as much detail as possible, why you had him as Town yesterDay. I don't think you ever gave a good case for it.

I'm confused. We know Dermon was scum, we know there's only 2 wolves. Why are you doing unaligned pairs?

--
@Snowvon

...Weird thing to say.
Where did you try to tell me again? As far as I understood it, we all saw Dermon/bond as nullest of the null except Delphine. Show me where you told me?

--
@Delphine

First of all, I want to promise you I read every word of this post. The reasons I'm saying this is because I kinda feel bad you went through the trouble of writing it. XD
With mbond as scum, the chances of you being his partner are 1% at most. You're basically Townfirmed (yes, now it makes sense, Math.)
Given that both your slots were AWOL for a lot of the game, I don't see how you could have been without there not being NKs at all. Unless they were a lot more active in QTs, which makes no sense.
Technically, maybe Dermon called the shots the first few Days, and then you took over after he left...but that's incredibly convenient and a huge stretch, especially when I have other suspects.

Can you do a rainwall? Who's your preferred lynch today?

--
@Mathblade
I'll address these one by one.

I suppose you're right? You're acting as if I was tunneling Maiden and then killed her.
I was pushing Snow the entire Day and no one would listen to me. I had to hammer otherwise there would be no lynch.

This is the third time you've used that word regarding me. I don't think it means what you think it means. /Princess Bride
Sheeping is following a lead/reasoning/vote for no reason, simply to look Town. (What Delphine with the Atum vote could have been seen as sheeping.)
I stated clearly my intentions on ika D1, and how I'd need to see what happens and how he develops D2. I gave my case why I thought he was a fair lynch then, I stated why he seemed scum clearly and for everyone to see. Me thinking ika was scum doesn't make me any scummier than any of the others that voted for him, convinced he was.
Even now, I'm annoyed at the mislynch, but I don't regret it since ika was a terrible player that just yelled and tantrumed what was supposed to be a newbie game. /shrug

Didn't you read my explanation to Delphine?
Atum was not a serious vote, it was a pressure vote - it was only going to stay there until he responded to my questions. I explained that from the start with the redacted post, and it was obvious back then why I did it. Don't ignore evidence compiled against your theory just because you want to be right, Math.
Meaning that yes, I found him scummy, but I had bigger targets at the time. After the flip and my going back through his posts starting D1, he's much bigger a suspect.

First of all, you're trying to say if I were scum, I'd kill Lyrium not because she's a threat, not because I saw something, figured out she's the seer, or because she's a Town player...but because she gave flipped me off with a gif. Meaning you think I'm a 14-year-old girl. Ok.

On Titus...honestly, the fact she got NK'd when she did is one of the better reasons I could think of for me not being scum, Math.
As scum, I'd keep her alive. If I wanted to kill a strong player, I'd have killed Rubicon. Killing her because of what she might do makes no sense.
Plus your sister is not a wildcard, Math. The reason why any scum that has played with her before would keep her alive has already been stated in past post: All you'd have to do is feed into her tunnel vision and she'd never glance your way. Because that's how she plays, that's why she's predictable, and that why any scum that knew her would know it's smarter to simply manipulate her.

On Terraine, you seem to be forgetting how she retracted that without zero pressure to do so and explaining very clearly why she did. She thought I was very strong Town yesterDay and even told Delphine what she thought I'd be like as Scum. Why would I hit her, and not say, anyone else? Even Delphine, if 'the scum knew their buddy would get modkilled.'

Also, this isn't proof or anything, but I'm honestly annoyed with you for that 'oh Sloth is trying to find replacements which is suspicious' bit, because it means you're either not reading, or you're blatantly lying so you look right.
Who brought Maiden into the game B&T?
Who got TerRaine interested?
Who convinced Burkion to step in into the middle of WIFOM so we could keep playing?
Was it me? I think it was. Where are you getting that I never look for new people and replacements?
Also, in case you forgot, we were looking for replacements for Burkion, aka Delphine, aka Monochrome, aka NIGH-CONF!TOWN.

...No. Of course not. The stronger suspect is the one I find the most evidence towards. Did you read my post? Was ANY of it made up? You're not making sense.

The reason why I asked that is because you were upset, flinging accusations with no apparent basis, and I had to leave anyway, so I didn't have time to address them. I asked because once you took a nap and calmed down, I assumed you'd be thinking more clearly and realize you weren't making sense. I was being nice.
Also I could write all those questions because I saw them. Once I posted I saw what you had written in (you ninja'd me), and I was already late, so I just added that bit (hence, automerge).

I'm going to need you to clarify what you mean by the lynch coming fast. Do you mean Citrus being hammered with 40 minutes? I didn't compliment you on that, I demanded to know why you did it.
Your ridiculous arguments are things like "mbond/delphine are Townfirmed" the circles you went around with the "hypo thing" the mess with the wolf and insisting there were 3 at first. A lot of your reasoning for my being scum (no that's not an attack, I'm showing you EXACTLY why it makes no sense. You're welcome to counter.)
The only ones I've complimented were the ones I thought had merit.

Also, fourth time you say sheep. When have I ever sheeped you? I want examples. And I want you to ask yourself this: Why would I ever sheep you?

This whole section is ranting and has nothing to do with me. Also, you're basically asking me why I couldn't read your mind based on one line? And you're trying to say that means I'm scum? I'm not sure on that last one, but given this is a case against me, I'm sort of assuming.

If you want my honest opinion, I'm beginning to think your emotions are clouding your ability to think. Of course, you're welcome to call that bullshit for now, but I promise you it's what I truly think and I promise you I'll tell you the same post-game.

What you're saying here is that you've basically made up your mind witout a single solid argument.

First, what other votes? The only other votes where on ika and were clearly RVS.
Second, I asked because Rubicon voted which any newbie would find strange, but Citrus sheeped him immediately, which is more suspicious. I wanted to see his logic for it, listing him as null for the time being. I'm not sure why that'd damning. In fact, reading this, I wasn't the only one that asked him, Citrus did as well, and I was actually ninja'd on the response by wolf!Dermon.
Third, if there was pregame chat, why would I need to press him on this agian? Not sure what you're getting at here.
Also, you're acting like I focused on him when I was asking everyone questions at the time. Which is, you know, a thing I do.

Again you're not reading my posts. I brought this up, and I publicly asked Riley about it (and in my QT). He let it go.
Also, are you trying to say Fonti's my mentor? I'm mentorless. I think fonti's Atum's mentor.

Skimming meant that I read through their posts and only stopped if I saw them mention one another. That's it. This is not an argument for why I'm scum, it's just...a commentary, I guess.
What do you mean null arguments?

Here's a breakdown of what was going on last night:

1 - I had most of it written because I wrote it during the Night. How do you not know this? I always write my first initial read during the Night phase, I've been doing so since Avatar (you can check the QT if you don't believe me). When I made that post I had literally only just sat down and been told Ter was dead. I needed to tweak it because I had to remove the TerRaine analysis and adjust some stuff to take into account her death (the points I make on Rubicon, for example). You realize you're seriously implying I wrote all of that in the 13 minutes it took me to post it, right?

2 - I mentioned I had RL things going on this weekend. The reason I came in yesterday was because Ter texted me and told me she was dead and I was being asked about in the thread. I was leaving soon, did not have time to read through and only saw the last post about a hug, so I hugged. That's literally all there is to it.

3 - I do generally read the thread and try to add changes to my analysis and post it, but I honestly had no time today aside from adding the Ter death changes. I tried to skim but gave up halfway through your first post and just posted. How was I supposed to know there'd be a Modkill in the middle of the day?
It was only afterwards that I saw the Ninja'd post saying Dermon was modkilled, wolf, and at that point I sat back down and read everything as quickly as I could.

If you don't believe RL, fine, but if you think I'd make up my friend getting his Master's to look innocent, I don't know what I think of you. I do know I'll want an apology about it post-game.

That was analysis of every scum move I could spot, yes. After the mislynched, I needed to gather info and see where the scum shows more.
Again, why does that make you doubt anything I brought up on Atum? Was ANY of it made up?
I didn't vote because I add the vote last, and this time specifically, I wanted reactions to my thoughts before placing the vote. With Dermon's modkill, it no longer matters, as I feel somewhat more certain of where the lynch should fall, at least enough that I don't need the reactions.

I get insulted every time you try to pretend I'm sheeping you, after all the work I put on my reads and my analysis. Where do you see sheeping? Where am I blindly following you?
On Atum? You mean the part where I brought up my suspicions yesterDay, built up on them and then did an in-depth analysis Today that not even remotely similar to your argument?
On Delphine? You mean the part where I pointed out her errors since, again, yesterDay without your help? Some points you brought up before me, but that just means I agreed. Most of my points you didn't even say, or if you did, you did it after me.
Where is the sheeping?
Because I've already told you where the bullshit is.
I've also told you where the good arguments are - I didn't say everything you thought was bad. This is why I think you're letting you anger/hurt get the best of you.
(Hell, earlier the Day, you confessed to be sheeping me. Which is it?)

Also, where do you see Atum questioning me? Following that logic, where do you see me pushing the lynch of someone that doubts me? That'd be ridiculous and easy to see as scummy.

...I think this is the wrong link? This is me asking why you didn't wait more to hammer Citrus when you said you'd leave it till the last minute. I get you didn't mean the LITERAL last minute, but 40 minutes is still a lot of time. I figured like, 10, 5. (Like I did with Maiden.)

--
Ok, Final thoughts:

...I don't understand how you could think this, not have a single strong argument, and yet put me as your highest scumread.
The fact that you moved me from your strongest Town read to suddenly obv!scum should tell you something to.
The weirdest thing is what you said: "Overall lots of townie play here but there's that lingering doubt that doesn't want to shut up since mbond's death." When I can't see a single reason why that should have affected your view on me.
With the info we got from the modkill, it IS smart to go back and revisit what you thought, but aside from that I'm not seeing what you're getting at.

Anyway, I've given you time to calm down after you were upset, I've waited for your argument, and after all that, you bring this.
This is not an argument, Math. This is easily dismantled assortment of half-theories, blatant lies and assumptions (did I ever actually call your theories bullshit?). I pointed out why above. I've dismantled it.
If you think I haven't done it successfully, you can reply to any of it, and I'll read it.

The only thing you may have had a point on, is my rush yesterday.
But I've explained why that was and what was going on RL at the time. All I can do is promise is the truth, and point out we do not lie about RL.

You need to step back, read this, and reassess. Stop just wanting to be right about this and see what's not fitting.

But yeah, I addressed this because you wanted me to. I won't again, unless you bring something solid to the table.

It's time to scumhunt.

 

Vote Count:

Sloth(1) – MathBlade
Rubicon (1) – SnowVon

With 7 alive its 4 to lynch.

Day 4 Ends at this time.

 

Uhm yeah you did call my theories bullshit, very subtly.
From https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=725407&postcount=1532
"reasoning that no one can wrap their heads around"

And what isn't so concerning isn't that you've tried to defend yourself. Hell I think some people may buy your argument. But there's two problems with you defending yourself that you didn't explain.

1) If you believe no one can wrap your head around my reasoning why are you scared of my logic? There's more than enough here for your Atum fake setup so why be concerned at all? Why defend yourself?

2) It's also against what you considered good town play in your first game to defend yourself. During the first game I played with you an argument was made that needs to be answered: Why are YOU so important to stick around? You've made your reads and your Atum confession. There are no power roles. We have mislynches to prevent the scum. I know I'm not any more important than any other townie which is why I tried to explain myself as best as I could. I'm no Sloth but this is how all the lynches/night kills get explained. You yourself mentioned you'd be doing that analysis but stopped cold in your tracks. The only other person with enough skill to pull this off is Rubicon but his posts don't make sense with the NKs. Atum just simply is too easy a lynch for the amount of information given.

If anyone besides Sloth wishes to see this discussion continued further between Sloth and I, I will break it down individually, I just don't see a point in letting scum pretend to be town with less than 5 hours on the lynch clock.

Honestly, you just expect me to believe you don't like...And who is WE? ANYTHING can be lied about in mafia. If I shouldn't be townfirming you for posting statuses on other players the last thing I should do is excuse scummy play because "RL" otherwise

Ohhhhhh you mean all the people who suspected me died and I had very little posting but just enough to tread water...But I had RL stuff...

This was after scumhunting and reassessing. I'm believing that you are scum after reevaluating. This is honestly the only move scum has when detailed into a corner like this. You seem to be scared that people would run away with my argument that your play is getting sloppy. Instead of tunneling Atum you are trying to make everyone seem scum with less than 5 hours left on the clock. Bravo.


You know you can't vote for me after I put you up there because it's OMGUSing but you can't risk being lynched. I can because if I die in a lynch or in an NK people wil come after you for the scum that you are. And on the off chance you don't kill me, I can keep trying to persuade town in what I see. I have the luxury of sweet sweet death possibility. I won't even defend myself from it because having a big ass defense is the WRONG play for a townie with this many mislynches left.

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Why_me_%3D_Fry_me
The first bit describes why an Atum lynch looks ohhh sooo good on the surface. The last sentence is the one I’m concerned with for you. WHY ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR SURVIVAL? You have better play to know how to do that. Is this a mistake because I noticed you were online?

And I maybe be horrible at convincing the others. You know what, this could be I'm hurt and I messed up play. But I'd rather make the mistake now then fix it and go after Rubicon the next day, because the longer I wait to call you out on your scummy shit, the less likely it is to be believed because you've been labelled town by everyone here. This is a game and I have a feeling I will enjoy this move whether it is a mistake or not.

 

NK Analysis

Terraine was the target.

I’ve been trying to figure out why…since it doesn’t make sense.

Aside from the question of why Mathblade or I weren’t hit (we’ve both been strong Town-read players most of the game), there was no reason I could see to target her: She wasn’t saying anything that was too different from the rest, and while she was a strong player, given the recent mislynches she’d have been on the hot-seat today – even I wanted her to explain her lack of vote (though she gave a fair response) and analyzed her posts all over. Citrus even left basically saying she should be the lynch, and she left saying she might not be around toDay, making her perfect.

Her suspects were Atum and Snow. And that’s about it as far as info goes.

Obviously, both of them are scumpects, and they’re more or less newbies, so it might have been a fear kill, but here’s what I noticed:

Let’s go back to Citrus’s #1460. What could the scum gain by lynching TerRaine when they did?

Like I said, Citrus basically left telling us who toDay’s lynch should be. And then that lynch is NK’d which, again, makes no sense and it loses scum a sure ML.
All we know for sure as a result is that Citrus was wrong.

What does Ter’s lynch accomplish? It throws everything Citrus said here into question.
If he was wrong about this, what else was he wrong about? Maybe everything.

Maybe he was wrong about Rubicon. Maybe he was wrong about Atum. Maybe they’re both Town.

I think scum shot TerRaine because she was the one Citrus advocated as lynch the most and she was Town. In killing her, it gives the idea that maybe he was wrong about everything.

It has been the most solid and clear reason I’ve been able to come up with for her death, given how things were looking for her. If anyone can think of another one, I’m all ears.

--
Going back on that, here’s another thing Citrus said:

N1 NK: Lyrium (seer)
N2 NK: Titus
N3 NK: Terraine

Both the N1 & N2 NKs were strong players – one was the Seer, maybe a coincidence, maybe not – and TerRaine was the third, a newbie on the hotseat, and a clear break from the other two (except for them being women, but I assume that’s a coincidence).
Going by Citrus’ quote, it’s possible the scum purposefully broke their flow of experienced players to throw us off their scent.

Now, here’s what caught my attention when revisiting my reads on her death:

It’s possible I may have been right with that last sentence. This COULD be a form of buddying – and the underlined sentence gives me pause. Everyone that he’s defended is making it to the endgame.
What if he’s defending them and making sure they make it, so that when it’s down to only 3 players, they don’t vote on him? “Oh he got us through and knew we were Town, he’s not scum.”
Killing Ter could have been to break that flow after Citrus brought up to inspect the NKs.
Also, this:

She was starting to turn around on her read of him.

Why TerRaine when Snowvon and Mathblade were also pressing him? That makes us go back to Citrus’ insistence to lynch her first.

I want thoughts on this, as I can’t decide if it’s far-fetched.

Either way, it doesn’t change my mind that the scum is in Atum/Rubicon.

--

(For those wondering, I looked at Lyrium/Titus’ interactions with Rubicon/Atum/ Snow…
Lyrium had a waffley Townread on Rubi (he addressed this yesterday, too), seemed (meaning I’m not sure) mostly null on Atum, and a very undecided read on Snow.
Titus, as we all know, was in tunnel vision more for Ter, but also was extremely focused on Rubicon, thought Atum Town (due to similarities), and thought Snow ‘likely’ town.
I’m not seeing much of a connection. Let me know if anyone does. )

---------- Post automerged at 02:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------

Readwall to come.

 

Delphine: Pressure is just one strategy, sometimes I switch approaches and talk to a person reasonably which can be just as interesting. In ika's case I know he doesn't like it when people just talk at him as town.

The other kills have been really silly, so between that and PoE it probably is a newbie scum team.

The "come in here and show us how town you are" was sarcasm, taunting really.

Sloth: Has Snowvon's play gotten better? Give me examples. The assumption that mbond98's partner would have cracked from loneliness is just an assumption. So is the assumption the partner would have stepped up their game like some people have said. Different people respond in different ways.

This wouldn't surprise me, no. I don't think it was particularly risky. I think the whole point of "one scum in three" is that you're putting a buddy in your scum-reads as distancing / so it doesn't look like you're avoiding them but since it's just one name in three you don't have to do anything with it.

The main question to me is whether Dermon knew to avoid this.

Also Snowvon already asked me about the unaligned pairs and I answered. Read the context and the lines before and after that section. Between this and your next response to Snow, you're being a little thick - stuff is going over your head.

---------- Post automerged at 12:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------

I think the simplest and most obvious explanation for the night kills is the scum following Lyrium's school of thought that killing strong players is cowardly and anti-fun. The only kill that doesn't fit is Titus, but that looked like a half-assed attempt at framing to me. Really after the TerRaine kill I'm basically assuming the NKs are random because wtf was that.

 

@Sloth: There is one thing I will apologize for. I do think your friend got his masters. That's not the part of RL I was complaining about and I'm sorry it came off like that. It's the rushing of the posts/mistakes that could be blamed on RL. The fact you asked for time no one rushed you and your posts don't include the thread's contents. It wasn't that I thought you wrote that in 13 minutes...It's the opposite I thought you wrote it well in advance to protect yourself.

 

Accurate vote count:

Snowvon (1) - Rubicon (1548)
Rubicon (1) - Snowvon (1517)
Sloth (1) - MathBlade (1550)

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

--

I'm gone in an hour because Riley keeps scheduling day end for Sunday afternoon, so if we could converge on a wagon that would be great.

 

just woke up; heading out the door.

Rubicon, plz answer w/r/t Atum.

To what extent are you still convinced of MB and Sloth-town?

 

Atum is just my back-up scum if Snowvon flips town and/or Dermon was being clever with his interactions. I don't think he's very scummy or anything.

MathBlade is town esp. for this new push on Sloth which doesn't make much sense to me if she's scum. (Why abandon the push on Atum?) And she should have expected the modkill and been ready for it...

I don't think Sloth is scum either, constant paranoia aside.

---------- Post automerged at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ----------

also -

Like randomly saying he hopes Dermon isn't the Seer because he doesn't think Dermon would be good at it. It's a weird connection to have early on. On the other hand Snowvon said he would daykill Dermon for "lulz" around the same time.

 

I find this interesting because you justify my townieness and rightfully so, but why did you not justify Sloth's? Can you expand more on this please?

---------- Post automerged at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:14 ----------

@Anyone W/R/T is read write talk? Guessing here?