Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by The Waco Kid, Dec 19, 2016.
I don't know what o/a is, but I don't think I'm particularly similar to wh7 here.
tom I fucking told you BD/Q weren't w/w. Those post numbers I quoted to Miner, like, did you actually read them. That conversation is literally never w/w it was too nuanced.
I thought Bill was >rand town when I hammered him but it's like. You either clear him right there for the rest of the game, or you kill him, and I wasn't /that/ sure. Bill, in the future, continually going "you guys are going to look dumb when I flip town" and "what happens to your reads when I flip town" does not, like, really make your town mindset super obvious.
My first thought on seeing Q's flip is that A) we're probably losing this game like 8/10 times, and B) I'm like 99% sure at least one of tom/fonti is a wolf here. You don't make that kill unless you're sure; Q is someone who could have probably been mislynched down the line, and I really don't think anyone else in this game has the stones to make that kill.
Having glanced at the posts after that I pretty strongly think they can't be w/w here though. If they are it's a pretty terrific performance.
Another random thought: I'm pretty much ride or die with Von here; if he's a wolf GG but I'm just clearing him. We're in probably the worst situation possible and at this point I'm going to just cut some corners and take more than a few "I'm fine losing the game if X" just close my eyes and accept it shots. The first one of these is that Von's just, town. I don't think he opens the day with those posts as a wolf here, ever, not after fonti and I made noise about lynching him as the day closed yesterday.
I strongly think that tom is just mafia here, for all the reasons I pointed out toDay. HOWEVER, I don't think this is a lock. Two things are preventing me from tunneling here: no wait three things actually:
1) The daychat thing, which I was going to just dumpster, but in light of Waco confirming it I do want to go read over those posts and see if I can get anything there. I'll do that at a later point but I feel it's pretty unlikely that anyone in this game would attempt to get towncred that way. Maaaaybe since Q started it and they jumped in on it, maybe. But I want to look there again at least.
2) The lack of resistance to anyone defending him. I know it's a bit weird of me to say this since I was the one who was calling for his head yesterDay, but it's skeeving me out a little that the gameflow is going against him this easily here. I read TH6 and tom getting outed in that game just felt... different. His posts were a lot more defensive, a lot more spikey and kind of, hm, sullen maybe. I'm not really seeing that here.
Although now that I'm thinking about it, the context in that game was overall wolves getting rekt, where here wolves are in an optimal spot, so. That might not be a great point.
3) I forgot what this was. Shit. Hang on. Damn it, it was something that occurred to me as I was thinking about reasons tom could be town. I'll come back to this.
I need to go look at Miner again; I think the way he followed me onto tom and the way he pressed that was kind of a weird outlier; I haven't played a ton with Miner, but that kind of surety is, well. A Thing. I'm not sure what I think about it. It didn't read /particularly/ like a bus of tom, so if it was it was a pretty good one. What I want to look at is if his mindset in holding back alignment thoughts then flourishing out his BD/Q read and then how fast he flipped on tom when I made my case kind of made sense in the context of genuinely liking that read, or, well, not.
Von, I'd kinda like to hear your thoughts on this one since you're pretty much clearing him.
I'm going to be a little sad if I incorrectly toneread Cobalt, but that definitely has to be a thing that's on the table now. I read a lot of BD/Q throwing shade at Cobalt yesterDay as potentially scum going after an easy target since Cobalt wasn't doing like, Traditionally Gamesolvy Things, but with the flips I need to re-evaluate. Plus what Von said about him potentially buddying me late was legit, and an obvious play from the MM7 handbook.
Yeah basically I'm not at all confident in our chances here. Besides myself, I think really only Von has the ability to clear himself out of the remaining players. Cobalt does but only under certain circumstances. Hm actually that's not a terrible idea I just had
Jarizok if I didn't know the setup I'd at least be considering that he's some kind of weird Neutral or something. He feels really disconnected from the game; aside from the early spat with Cobalt I don't see a lot of critical thought or analysis and way way more fluffy jokes and shit than I think is reasonable for a new player who's never rolled town and has limited information. So I'm not crazy about him.
Koalas I thought was super, super town for literally one post in the early game but that's a read that means pretty much... hm. Well, maybe something? But yeah. Hey Koalas now is the time to like, do shit. Because I've been scum with you and you're having about the impact on the game right now as you did in that game, so like.
fonti... I mean she could be mafia here, it's true. I'd really like to think after all this time I have some insight into how she thinks, and this feels way less dismissive and mudslingy than I have a sense that her scumgame is. Like, the way she grilled and then unvoted tom... that would be some truly excellent distancing, and while I wouldn't put it past her, it doesn't feel quite right. At the same time in the world where tom's town I just don't see anyone else who would make that Quiddity kill.
I think I'm still jamming to a tom/Jarizok world, but I'm, hm. Not exactly ready to shove my chips into the middle on it.
I still can't remember what the third thing is where tom could be town, that's annoying. Maybe it'll come to me later.
So yeah. Lock clear Von, strongly. One and only one between tom and fonti... 80%. That's what I'm starting with.
I'm not sure why scumfonti would back off me there.
Like, maybe. But unless it's exactly fonti-miner I think she just keeps going.
---------- Post automerged at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:47 ----------
And yeah, they weren't.
Maybe you're seeing nuance that I just... don't.
Perhaps I'm holding everyone to my standards of interacting with a buddy.
Like, I just got done modeling a full game of interaction with a partner based off v/v me/vaimes.
I could have faked that convo for sure.
I'm torn between "font is town for backing off tom" and "that's what she wants me to think."
I'll get to the miner thing in a bit.
---------- Post automerged at 23:59 ---------- Previous post was at 23:53 ----------
I always tell myself that reading tom's tone is never ever ever a good thing, but I can't help it, he just doesn't sound like mafia here.
Could be because it's tom/font and this is beautifully staged, but I'm having trouble seeing him respond to her this way as scum.
Go with it actually.
I normally tell you/people not to, but I am currently playing a way I'm not certain I can replicate as scum.
I mean, I will probably try at some point.
But it will be mediocre.
I was looking through Q's ISO to see if maybe he was killed for some other reason and wolves just got super lucky.
But eh. Q talked a lot about how directing the Seer is scummy, so that could have been it. Didn't help that a couple of us slipped that we weren't the Seer, oops. >_>
I wouldn't put it past Cobalt to kill Q for being the ~only one pressuring him, tbh.
If me, Von, font, and tom are all town, then who's the team? It feels like it should be pretty easy in that world.
And reaaaaally someone else made that kill? Really?
How do you think you're playing any differently than your usual town MO?
I know you used the word "transparent" but could you be more specific?
Yeah I was gonna say.
Maybe I'm giving wolves too much credit. Like I had "Von is VT or mafia" in my notes and you weren't the only one.
And like even without going back I know what post Q died off, it's maybe not that hard to see when you know he's town.
Problem is, I'm not even sure if you would make that kill, even if you did have the potential.
Full explanation of my miner waffleread:
I think miner looks townie.
Newcomb's "bounciness" thing put it better than I could.
But I also think he made some really alignment indicative posts.
Which is probably another town tell if I'm being honest, because with his playstyle I feel he'd avoid that.
Here is the post I wanted to look back at after flips...
And they've both flipped, so we don't even have to wait til day 4.
If bd/quid were w/v, miner was >rand wolf. For sure.
But since they were v/v, I don't think wolfminer ever makes this post.
So... congrats miner.
I set it up, and now I am NOT trying to mislynch you.
---------- Post automerged at 21:23 ---------- Previous post was at 21:13 ----------
I have left myself no room to backpedal.
I usually do bullshit like pushing reads for effect or jumping on wagons just because I like wagons.
I am accountable for every opinion I've had this game. No bullshitting.
This is basically unlike any game I've played as myself.
I have done it in alt games on westeros, and as Not_A_Gimmick. But never as tom.
And NAG failed miserably as scum when I replaced thug.
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If it is cobalt, just narrowing down who's not the cop and shoot in the people that would investigate you.
That's normally how I use roleblocks in open setups. Whoever would do the most damage to your team if they are the _____
OKAY I'M BACK AND LET ME LEARN YOU A THING BECAUSE I WAS LAZY FOR THE SECOND HALF OF DAY ONE BECAUSE REASONS BUT I'M HERE NOW AND Y'ALL ARE EITHER STUPID, DUMB, UGLY OR MAFIA IF YOU'RE VOTING ME RIGHT NOW AND HERE'S WHY.
Firstly lol for almost mislynching the seer D1. If that ain't me as fuck.
This is... actually not a bad reason because it looks that way. Von's the only one who's allowed to vote for me.
I admit I was lazy for the second half of day one but that has everything to do with me being rusty and committed in another game rather than being scum.
But wait, Von.
Okay what is this garbage?
When do I EVER do that in this scenario?
Firstly, if I WERE to do something like that I'd kill Jarizok because that would make more sense and Q was not in the remote slightest the only person pressuring me. Secondly, I NEVER do this here. I am not the lazy scumbitch who kills off their only vocal opposition in hopes that it'll just shut up any talk of me being scum. I kill someone else, blame it on them and give a damn good reason why, and then run train on them until they die and then go, oops! My reads are wrong this game.
I am not that bitch. You of all people should know this so if that's one of the reasons why you're voting me it's hot rancid garbage and you should be ashamed of yourself.
And, why is that exactly?
Look at all these carefully listed, well-explained reasons guys!!!!! So many reasons!!!
Where have I been pinging you and why? Provide specific examples so I can prove that you're either wrong or scum thinking that I'm somehow an easy target because boy do I have news for you.
I'm an easy vote here and Tom is being opportunistic as hell without actually giving a damn as to why.
Newcomb - can you give a few specific reasons why your vote came my way? Anything in particular that I've done that's questionable? Because:
This in particular is what makes me the easy target after flips. It's super noncommittal and lazy to say "well, BD and Q were throwing shade at Cobalt and they both flipped town so they were probably right, let's lynch him." The LAST thing that I know Newcomb to be is noncommittal and lazy, so I'm hoping his read develops to a point where he has his own reasons and motivation for voting me if that's what he plans to do this phase.
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This looks awfully opportunistic towards EoD1 considering that both Quiddity and Bill have flipped town.
I don't know that scum Jarizok takes that shot there, but it's worth looking into for me.
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That and the fact that Tom questioned Miner on his Jarizok clear just feels badwrong this phase.
Like I remember whom you'd kill as scum and why. It just felt like something that aligns with your personality.
Also lol, I forgot Jarizok was also sniping at you.
Will continue after a few rounds of Overwatch because my team summoned me.
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Also don't give me that. You know Scumbalt.
Cobalt focusing in on the "I'm not a little bitch" part instead of the "yeah I see how they could tell who the cop was" part is completely expected.
Which is exactly the sort of thing that has pinged me from him.
I have to make a case now, don't I?
Why should I have to reiterate what everyone has already said?
You're... hoping that I develop my read on you until I get to a place where I feel really good and solid about my vote on you?
No. That's not what I meant.
I'd hope that if you actually decided to vote for me you'd do so with good reason and not the crap you just served on a platter.
Why do you think I'm voting you, Cobalt?
You said I hadn't been gamesolvey and was buddying you. Both of which are true to a degree, but to cite it as because BD and Quiddity both flipped town is crap.
---------- Post automerged at 01:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 AM ----------
Because that is the EASY thing to do. It's the easy thing to think. In fact, after Bill went down it's no surprise at all that scum killed someone else who was vocal against me. Assuming my alignment based on those two flips is not enough.
Separate names with a comma.