Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by The Waco Kid, Dec 19, 2016.
Would really appreciate input from you two.
vote count 3.3
Vote Count 3.3
tom (3): Miner11121, Fontisian, Koalas
Koalas (1): tom
Abstaining: Jarizok, Newcomb
Approx 8 hours, 20 mins left in day
I'm at the cinema right now, I'll post tonight.
Everyone is town.
Game over we all win.
Did you read that 20 post stretch starting when I got serious about cobalt?
You think we're buddies?
---------- Post automerged at 11:59 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------
<Seinfeld voice> What's the deal with Koalas this game?
Shotgun thoughts, no re-read:
- fonti said yesterDay that I was clearing Kalas too easy off agreeing with me, today she says he'd have killed not-Von. Mislynch tom, "oops I guess it was Kalas after all," win?
- The runup to lynching Cobalt yesterDay is really, really interesting. Like, I'd kinda forgotten how things shifted around and it really was Von's case that kinda sealed it. You can see BOTH fonti and Koalas leaning Jarizok over Cobalt before that.
- In every game I've played that I've been in where Kalas was town, scum pushed him. Like, I distinctly remember WH5 and WH7 being mafia and going "okay so we're definitely mislynching Kalas at some point." And this game it's like... I think his tone's pretty good, but he's kinda low-impact. And that post Cobalt had pointing that out - "hey where's Kalas go, anyone see that he last the fewest posts?" Ehhh that doesn't reeeeeeeally scream w/w to me. But where's the push against him, if he's town? Cobalt+whoever, they've just left Juicy Mislynch Target town!Kalas alone yesterDay and toDay?
Ugh this isn't really helping. I can see both sides.
I think I should focus on how Cobalt was lynched. Because, like. Cobalt threw in the towel, this is known. His partner was doing... what?
Okay so we have our three suspects. (I'm just...clearing Jari and Miner here. Miner's just town, and Jari is not with Cobalt(.
Fonti was trying to push the lynch off Cobalt but not strongly anywhere else.
Kalas was unwilling to vote Cobalt and wanted to lynch Jarizok.
tom wanted to lynch Cobalt and was actively trying to link him to Jarizok.
This is before Von made his Cobalt case, which in my mind is what sealed it. Although AFTER Cobalt made his AtE and peaced. So Cobalt was done participating, at this point it was just all on the partner to do whatever.
It's. Does scum!Koalas put the work in to kind of softly push at a connection he knows is wrong? It's this weird in-between area where he's not really trying to save Cobalt but as a partner this would /feel/ like he's over exposing himself even with this, I think. It's... kinda IIoA-y, overall.
God damn I have a hard time seeing this coming from scum!fonti.
Like... okay it's subtle, but the fact that those were two separate posts that she automerged 2 minutes apart.
If she were trying to seal the lynch onto Not-her partner-Cobalt, why does it occur to her to mention him like that 2 minutes later and leave the door open, potentially? If she wanted to seal the lynch but still give /herself/ the option to bus in the next few hours, why is this an appeal to /Von/?
It just... ugh it doesn't make sense.
Okay so at this point Von makes his case, I'd think from the partner's PoV that that kinda seals it.
Like, tom, I really don't want to punish you for playing transparently and high effort and shit but this just looks so bad from my PoV.
You can't say in the same game that you're great at partner interactions, argue with me about Q/Bill Door because you'd easily be able to fake that kind of nuance, and then make posts like this and then later go, "yeah but come on I'm not aligned with Cobalt, look at our interactions."
Okay now this is a really, really interesting interaction:
Talking about Cobalt
Responding to fonti
Responding to tom
Okay so it's like.
Run through what was happening in both worlds.
Fonti's really really really softly defending her partner but townreading tom for the case, which just... she has to know that's going to look /terrible/. Would she really play it this way, as mafia? Like, to shield tom a little and agree with his point, to a point, but then still settle on meta-townreading her partner? With this much pressure on him? Ehhhhhh that just does not seem likely to me.
Scum!fonti runs her partners over a cliff if they're not pulling their weight. Which, she kinda does /later/ to Cobalt, but at this point Cobalt's already made his peace-out post, doesn't scum!fonti just go BUS BUS BUS BUS /right then/? Or does she think he'll come back? That she can save him? Maybe Cobalt's said in scumchat that he'll give it another try, and fonti's just ever so slightly giving herself the chance to hard push for someone else if Cobalt makes a good post?
But no, this just... does not seem like a play scum!fonti makes here.
Yeah tom this is exactly what I'm talking about.
You don't get to say crap like this and then spend 2,000 words talking about how unaligned with Cobalt you are.
Make a case on Koalas.
This makes so much more sense as town!Koalas frustration with the lynch not being great in his eyes - and if scum, why would he even call this a policy lynch? Snowvon made a pretty good case, in this world town!tom made a pretty good case, doesn't scum!Koalas call this something else? Is that really the way he defends his partner? Seems unlikely.
In either world where one of them is scum here, what exactly do they get out of this interaction? Whichever one is hypothetically a partner here knows they're about to look kinda bad off Cobalt's flip, so does this really work as a pocket attempt on the other? Like... "well I was thinking the same thing as this other guy, who's town, so..."
It just seems super casual for a bus. It's not even really a bus, it doesn't do anything for them. What's the scum agenda, here?
How... how does that come from scum!fonti who's about to hammer her partner. How does it. Tell me.
What does this even mean?
As he's made very, very, very clear.
So after all that, I mean.
I'd like people to weigh in on the interactions I'm quoting. I can feel myself gripping it too tight maybe.
---------- Post automerged at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------
Maybe we just kill tom/Koalas.
God I just DO NOT want to lose to fonti again. I don't. I really really don't.
Yes I'm good at interactions.
But I'm really more pointing to what cobalt was doing while I was dunking him.
I know you said me dunking cobalt is revisionist history, but that's what it felt like at the time.
Like, I started making a case because poe and by the end of it he was outed imo.
Not my fault it took von restating my points to seal the lynch.
I don't have a case on anyone.
I realize thats terrible. But I'm not gonna present anything I don't believe in right now.
If I'm not clear right now, I literally never will be.
Wish I had a reads legacy to leave.
But, like, shit guys.
Somebody fooled me.
How is Koalas fooling you?
---------- Post automerged at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------
The way tom and fonti are approaching this Day is a really interesting contrast.
I'm not sure what to make of it, and I probably won't be until post game, but it's definitely a Thing.
tom bud, deadline's in like 4 hours.
You say everyone's town. But surely some are more confirmed than others? Like...
vote someone. Even if you don't really believe in it, even if it's because they're just "less town" instead of being "more scum".
Because it might help later.
Also Newcomb, the only part of your long post that I can respond to at all credibly (because most of it was based on you trying to see it from the player's POV, which is not something i can do with pretty much anyone because I don't know how people think when they play. I barely know how I think when I play.) is the part with Koalas not being pushed this game.
And I think that's a pretty important point, because if town!Koalas is always mislynch bait then there's no reason for him not to be mislynch bait for scum in this game.
But there's also the point that he could be the mislynch in F4 instead of now. Like, he's always had a low postcount this game, and he hasn't really said much, so he will always be in the POE.
---------- Post automerged at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------
Like Newcomb, if this were F4 with you, font, Koalas, and one of me or Jarizok (assuming we lynch tom and you don't die in the night), who would you wind up voting for?
Because I think he's town.
Listen. I've told you what happened there at the beginning of day 2.
I gave yall my full thought process.
If you think a different narrative is more likely, one presumably including the phrase "scum theater", then...
I made a herculean effort to try to prove I'm town last night/this morning.
With no scumreads, that's all I've got.
If you're unconvinced, just fucking lynch me. Because I will never make a townier post than the last big automerge before I went to sleep.
If you guys waffle this, I'm a be pissed.
At a certain point, I just default to who is most likely to have completely fooled me.
Which would be fonti/newcomb I suppose.
No offense to the rest of you, but that's just the way it is.
But no. That's not what I want to be doing.
I will vote anyone who isn't me at this point, because what the fuck do I know.
Someone vote. I'll sheep.
---------- Post automerged at 14:06 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------
---------- Post automerged at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:06 ----------
Might just post golden girls gifs the rest of the day.
I'm out of things to say.
Someone please accuse me of lolcatting.
---------- Post automerged at 14:08 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------
---------- Post automerged at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------
I'm town. You're most likely town. Jarizok isn't scum with Cobalt. This is outside Newcombs scum range (with Cobalt as a partner). Fonti is better then tom.
Tom makes a decent defense case but lacks any follow up. It doesn't make sense for him to do x as scum. Ok sure. But if it doesn't make sense for anyone to do x then I find it more likely it's y, if that makes any sense.
Koalas reread / interactions with Cobalt:
#65 first mention of Cobalt, completely null/
I vote Cobalt in #66;
#71 Shade on me. Defense of Cobalt?
#88 On rereading this, it feels completely off. Forced neutral interaction with/mention of Cobalt with a pretend game solvey question thrown on the end.
#193 I can see this coming from either alignmen, but scum motivation: Giving people some tells gives them something to focus on when they try to read you. It's easier to fake towniness if you know what townies are going to be looking for. Also on the surface it of course gives of towniness, it counter-instinctual to give your enemies your weaknesses.
#294 Again some casual mention of Cobalt. Koalas is pretending to keep an eye on Cobalt but he never pushes it because he's actually fine with noone looking too hard? Notice how he redirects the conversation immediately after mentioning Cobalt.
Koalas seems pretty eager for the BD mislynch.
#374 I think you guys have been underselling Koalas as a player to me. He's setting up shade on Tom here, knowing BD is gonna flip town. Also, he apparently spotted the Q seertells and decided to kill Von which none of you seem to seriously consider him to be capable of. I don't know peoples metas like you guys do but going over everything like this leads me to believe Koalas could win here. Town is ready to lynch Tom/Font in that order, Newcomb is the first night kill, town loses? He's been fairly absent because things have been going well for him. He showed up to promote my lynch over Cobalt but he did it in such a way that he didn't seem invested in keeping Cobalt alive. We know better if you look at his posts without content though.
Pro Cobalt posts: #667 #746
Anti-Jarizok posts: #671 #674 #679 #696(Also Miner) #710 (#713 more shade on Miner) #749
#760 is Koalas giving up on his partner.
#792 Koalas shows that he knows people wouldn't expect him to kill Snowvon by pretending he would've made a different one.
#794 Koalas feels exposed by #792 and shows his defensive mindset in this reaction to Miner calling him out on an empty post.
#797 "OR THE SCUM TEAM IS GAMBLING" Koalas knows he needs to pull some real crazy stuff to win this game after Cobalt got lynched. What he did set town up to lynch Tom>Fonti which is probably his only real shot at winning.
#799 Koalas says that Von wasn't as strong and active D2 as he was D1 in conversation with Tom. This strikes me as odd because I just read Newcomb's post saying that Snowvon sealed the deal on the Cobalt lynch for him. Of course, Koalas doesn't know he should feel that here because he DIDN'T want Cobalt to get lynched.
#801 Lines are drawn: "Lynch Tom or Fonti please." If he can get us to lynch both he wins. This was premeditated. This is why he killed Snowvon.
#803 "Fonti and Cobalt" Koalas straight up scumslips here. He can't not have seen that after he posted it, but fixing it in a merge will just call attention to it so he doesn't do that. Miner notices it, #805 weak.
#812 "Woe is me, poor little townie trying to solve the game"
#814 Vote speaks for itself. I think Koalas is hoping real hard for an early hammer here. "Fingers crossed it's game" Come on guys, does any towny ever feel the need to voice the obvious like this?
#823 Selserving doubtcasting of Tom.
Please guys, can we lynch Koalas tonight? We can make up our mind between Tom or Fonti tomorrow if necessary.
---------- Post automerged at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:18 ----------
I get it.
I know its not me and still can't tell you who it is.
I get that its hard.
Sorry I'm not better. Or townier. Or whatever helps us win here.
---------- Post automerged at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------
Vote Koalas please Tom. Do it for me if you can't think of a convinving case of your own. You should know by not that I'm town and I at least believe in the Koalas lynch.
---------- Post automerged at 23:24 ---------- Previous post was at 23:24 ----------
Lol ninja'd, thanks.
Should've taught me better...
Koalas, what do you mean when you say fonti is better than tom? Does this mean fonti is a better player, or fonti is a better lynch?
Newcomb if you would please answer my question thx.
:facepalm You're lucky you're town.
New that post you weren't sure of was dealing with Cobalt and Jarizok. They both tapped out near the end of the day, Cobalt earlier then Jarizok. I was just frustrated that everyone was pissed off at Cobalt over it but shrugging their shoulders at Jarizok.
Lol Koalas, they were shrugging their shoulders at me? They were friggin pissed at me.
Separate names with a comma.