@Titus:

How exactly can I do that? I mean, I just asked Proph to because he basically confirmed the last, but I don't think so...

Does the commute now work against investigation or not?


@Citrus:

I don't get it. Does this run under the assumption that Titus is scum or in general?

@Riley:
can you answer #1438 now:

 

Commute works against ALL actions. It always has. That is why I wasn't jailed. See the mafiascum wiki. It is processed as an immunity in the Order of Night Actions.

Blab, I know the question seems odd. Yet I can't see why town!Maiden would not give you rolecop.

 

Not at this time. I hosted a game with Proph before where abilities moved around. In MYLO/LYLO the double vote ability was negated in our setup. I can see a parallel here where the double vote is disabled once LYLO would be reached. However, since this is a hidden setup, it makes sense that there's a hard number so we can't meta how many scum there are left in the game on the basis of whether Titus still has double vote or not, assuming she's town.

AKA leaning towards it being a 3 scum game now

---------- Post automerged at 09:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

(in general)

 

5 mafia. If there are no SK, I suppose it's possible. ...fantastic.
Have there been instances when losing the two-vote didn't mean LyLo? (also what's the difference between MyLo and LyLo?)

@Titus

I asked her to hold off on choosing till Day's End, remember? The reason I did was because I wanted to read Blab more. The only scenario I had were Blab could still be Scum was with Lee as a scummate.
If Lee was Town, I'm just gonna go with Blab Town unless I see something that makes me think otherwise.
Maiden didn't get a chance to give him anything because Lee hammered.

--

Ugh. I have no clue where to take it from here.

But, I don't think Riley is scum. Given his description on his abilities, I believe he's an Auditor. Does anyone doubt that and can offer a reason why?
Following on that, it makes no sense for him to be Scum. The Auditor is basically a weak cop role, and the Scum already had a permanent Watcher in Zeit. Why would Proph give them two?

If nothing else, he's my third priority: Ird > Moridin. If they both flip Town, then I'll look into Riley.

...Change that to Ird or Moridin. If Lee wasn't defending a fellow-scummate, either is a choice to me right now. Sigh. Thoughts?

--

Also, the fact that Citrus and Titus are quickly taking charge and backing each other up makes me nervous. It is nigh-impossible for both of them to be scum, I think...but one of them being scum and the other mostly following along is a possibility.

2 scum in the jailchat from the start of the game (i.e. Scum!Citrus) seems extremely unlikely, and that's my biggest reason to clear him. Titus has been fairly Town for most of the game, but now my paranoia is flaring.

If one of the two is scum, Titus is likely the one.

Thoughts on this, Blab, Ird, Riley?

Citrus, is there a chance in your mind Titus could be scum?

Titus, same question on Citrus.

 

@Citrus+Titus:
Are you sure that Zennith had gold left over?



Because if you are (and please doublecheck this if I missed something):
(I am going to assume no town roleblocker for now, because of sheer unlikeliness with a town jailkeeper)


a) Zennith forgot to set will => very, very unlikely given that he was conf!town jail-keeper and we had talked about this regarding Riley
b) Zennith didn't give you his gold => in Titus' words "abysmal"
c) Scum have a way to interfere with last-will-gold
d) One of you is lying

let's disregard a) and b)

but if c)
then scum powers (let's lump all not!town powers together, i.e. regard all not!town as scum):
1) Zeitgeist power: Wiretrapper (whether watcher, trapper or something else is irrelevant)
2) + sending messages (claimed by Citrus and Titus)
3) + daykilling
4) + interfering with last-will-gold (see c) (post-ika)

5) + (unless somebody claims town roleblocker) Riley claims roleblocker. (post-ika)

additionally ika flipped as "Goon", and I don't think he would have flipped as goon if he had a day!vig ability. (Plus he tried to hammer himself before the daykill, remember?) So even if we attribute the sending messages to ika we have 3)+4)+5) left for the remaining scum, which is still OP and 3 powers for probably less than 3 scum.

So I conclude: if c)
c1) Riley is lying



So I conclude: If we disregard a)+b): One out of Riley+Citrus+Titus is lying.

(Basically this reasoning boils down to: scum can't have both a roleblocker and a way to interfere with gold because then we have too many powers for scum.)


@Everyone:
If you are a town roleblocker claim now.
also if you got gold from zennith.

 

Blab, It was in the jailchat. Zennith had gold. The construct about jailing Citrus and Maiden was designed to keep them both alive.

Sloth, I have never disbelieved Riley as an auditor. I've just believed him as a scum auditor. A scum auditor does wonders for finding a PR.

Watcher is far from a weak cop. Instead, it is useful for determining who suspects the scumteam. It's also useful since the scum likely have a gold interference mechanic.

Auditor helps determine who threats are in the game. For instance, a player has no gold, who cares if they are a PR. This likely interacts with their gold theft mechanic somehow.

What use does a town auditor have? It's not a cop, unless Prophy made this breakable by the amount of gold and I highly doubt that.

There is also the possibility Riley is not an auditor. Has he ever given verifiable results? No. Why? Perhaps he is no auditor at all, but he is the source of the fucked up gold mechanic.

I am 100% certain. I figured Zennith would split his gold between me and Citrus given the fact he townread us. When I got no gold, I wanted an explanation from Citrus.

I do think ika could have flipped goon with a dayvig ability. First, it fits with behavioral analysis. Why would ika take a dive if the dayvig wasn't him? Second, I've played a goon with a dayvig. It flips goon with a dayvig. ika was never called "Messenger Goon". Of course, ika might have been no messenger at all, but merely wifomed that part.

It's entirely plausible Prophy just called Goon with a dayvig "Goon", with the vague "Weatherman" that Fonti was.

As for Ird or Moridin, I'm fine with either at the moment, but I really want Riley dead first as I don't see any way he's town.

Blab has confirmed not the roleblocker. So that leaves Ird or Moridin.

---------- Post automerged at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------

Oh yeah, the only thing our Auditor told us is a) proven false or b) scum lied.

Fonti has 3 gold accounted for (me, Lucky, Zennith). Riley says 4. There's a missing gold, but of course Riley has a million hedges, none of which are possible by the order of operations.

Either a) scum lied and withheld to frame Riley or B) Riley is no auditor.

 

where did you get the idea of 5 mafia?

I have never played with double-vote, but:
"Mislynch and loose" is for example 4 town vs. 2 scum. Mislynch town and scum kills town it's 2 vs. 2 the next day, a loss. If no-lynch, there is Lylo the next day.
"Lynch or loose" is for example 3 town vs. 2 scum. Lynch scum or loose.

I have a hard time imagining either as scum, but less trouble imagining either as third party (as I already said (to Mathblade, I think)).
Regarding Titus, reread Zeitgeist's post for me and tell me if you can imagine Zeit and Titus on the same team.

 

I received a message the day Ika died, so I'm almost positive he had that power

Zennith for sure had gold, or he lied the entire game. And I'm pretty sure he set a last will as wills were discussed at one point (I even set one then even though I have no gold in case there are 2 deaths or something weird)

---------- Post automerged at 01:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 AM ----------

I've been tossing the idea around of scum Titus, but it's from more recent activity rather than early game activity, and the early game stuff looks very good for Titus town

 

Citrus, your behavior seems odd. You are suspecting me based on the same vague doubtcasting that has been going on.

If you are expecting three scum, why are you not talking in terms of winning the game by lynching Riley?

I like four scum, so I am not as concerned.

Yet, this is flashing me back to positioning Citrus.


Sloth, can you do a meta dive an compare this to Dresden Citrus?

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Sloth, Citrus could be scum. It's unlikely but nothing has made sense these past few days. He's my second best townread. You now take first Sloth.

A Citrus/Sloth final would be very bad for me.

---------- Post automerged at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------

Citrus's derp hammerish (was not actual hammer)was advantageous for scum.

---------- Post automerged at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 PM ----------

Flavor ways, Citrus could be another jailed goon if it is 4 players. Flavorwise, Warden guards prisoners and ppl assume prisoner = guilty.

I will look into Citrus scum tomorrow, but I don't like it as a gut feeling. I will put up both cases. I want to get it right and not confbias.

---------- Post automerged at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 PM ----------

I will also make a Riley towncase bc sudden missing gold again.

 

Because you were super sure on mathblade. You literally asked for a quick hammer in jailchat.

I still don't understand that and revealing my role as far as I revealed it in jailchat

---------- Post automerged at 03:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 AM ----------

And lucky's a **** for hammering himself within the first third of the day

 

I assume it falls under 14 on the night actions list. Which means that anyone has a chance to use their gold before I check. As far as I can tell, Fonti had 3 gold right before the night ended.

Also, I was given gold in the night and again, I was role-blocked even though Titus is so damned insistent that I'm just lying or didn't use my power.

My question is, if Citrus is in Jail permanently, does that mean that he can't ever be NK'ed? If so, why are you so scared to reveal your role then?

---------- Post automerged at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 AM ----------

Or am I misunderstanding the Jail mechanic now?

 

Riley, why did you persist in saying 4 gold and having this talk of missing gold? As for the jail mechanic, I will check on that question but my gut memory sas Citrus was theoretically NK able.

Citrus, why are you getting visibly upset by my questioning of my read on you?

I was supersure because I saw Mathblade was being a fake. She admitted that post lynch. Do I regret that lynch? No, as there is no way anyone can trust a faker that can't explain how and when they faked.

As for outing you, you being a vt type role was obvious. There is no other reason you would be so confused about vts gaining 3 gold as the sample pm is upfront.

Good morning. Time for some casework.

Unvote

 

I didn't say 4 gold. I said three.

---------- Post automerged at 09:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------

My apologies, I thought you were referencing something else. Yes Fonti had 4 gold

---------- Post automerged at 09:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 AM ----------

As for why I was so sure there's a missing gold somewhere is because my ability is last on the Night Actions list. Meaning that if you, Zennith and Lee all claimed one gold I wanted to know where the last one went. That was the reasoning.

Also confirmed that Citrus is as of now, immune to NK's while in Jail. If he's correct and is permanently jailed than he should have no reason whatsoever to be wary about NK's and should definitely claim.

Who else is in Jail?

 

Riley, do you feel it is plausible that Fonti gave gold to Citrus? I want you to answer before I say why.

 

Of course it's plausible, I'm not fonti I don't know who she gave gold too.

 

No one. My jail was temporary. Zennith cannot jail being dead.

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If Citrus is scum, that would explain both missing gold phenomenon without a scum goldstealer. It also explains why Riley would b blocked, because Citrus is an obvious audit choice. If he has gold, that is a problem.

 

Well at this point I can't check him. Doesn't the Jail also roleblock as well? If so than he wouldn't need to block my ability if he is a Roleblocker.

 

When hauled off to jail, yes. However ika obviously wasn't blocked bc he could send messages.

Citrus's rolefish at the start was really fucking bad.

Riley, you need 4 scum to be town, who is Citrus's scummate? Rank your answers please.

---------- Post automerged at 07:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 AM ----------

The gamestate suggests that our early game reads have been spot on and derp has been leading ever since. It is also pretty clear, my early reads were derpish due to people gambiting far too much. Gambiting is my great weakness. If town doesn't gambit, scum have a hard time hiding from me

---------- Post automerged at 07:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 AM ----------

Riley, show me your worst accused slip outside of this game please.

 

I don't NEED 4 scum to be town. I am town. You can take that or leave it.

As for reads, I'm pretty sure I've already mentioned who I think is scum. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've been giving the same reads for the past two Days now. Making me repeat myself at this point is stupid and irritating. I haven't changed my desire to lynch you and Citrus. I've even offered to the rest of the players to lynch me first or second as long as you're included.

Slip as in, I was scum and messed up or slip as in I was town and said something that everyone jumped on as Scummy? Regardless of which you asked for, you're now playing Meta which you distinctly said you don't like to do, therefore if you're really going to go this route, you can look yourself. Just like every other player does.

 

Ugh...Riley, I am trying to see you as town. Why are you being such an ass to me. Yes, I don't like meta but I am coming around to the fact I could have been wrong.

You do need 4 scum. I cannot see why town would roleblock an auditor and then not claim it. Only one act per player per night. Hence 4 scum. Suppose I am town, who is Citrus's scumbuddy.

I do hate meta. It usually is wifom, but I need to see the behavior of making alleged scumslips that were false in order to see if it's possible you just slip. I am writing up 3 cases, can you please not be an ass and help me?