Newspapers don't really check their facts in the real world so I find that to be quite accurate actually. Even if they do bother to check the facts they tend to present them in a way that fits the story they want to put out. As for no robes, I happen to like robes they are comfy. Plus, since when is fashion meant to be logical?

 

Some logical things I would think a competent Ministry of Magic might implement:

To prevent corruption in the highest offices, an actual oath of office (like an unbreakable vow)

Random dark magic checks of all ministry employees (like random drug testing for state/federal employees)

Separation between the legislative and judicial body of government (the Minister should not be involved or even notified of underage magical use)

Checks and balances on political power

Places or situations where underage wizards/witches would be able to use magic during the summer

Better use of magic to create larger magical cities (The small town of Hogsmead is the only magical town in the UK or Europe, but they can hide a 100,000 seat stadium?)

Competent teachers in all subjects at the pinnacle of magical learning

A proportional amount of teachers to students

More optional classes catering to specific careers as either classes available after 3rd year or optional during 7th year or as an 8th year at Hogwarts (Curse Breaking, Advanced DADA for Aurors, Math (accounting/estate management), Household Charms, Warding or Protection Charms, Magical Architecture and so on)

Testing for specific talents at a young age (Divination, Parseltongue, Metamorphmagus and so on)

Pre-Hogwarts magical culture/history/general magical knowledge schooling

A security officer (or more than one) at Hogwarts (Every American high school I’ve ever been to has at least one full time police officer on staff)

Uses of the Trace on paroled or suspected criminals so as to track them

Obligatory General Muggle Studies courses for 7th year Hogwarts students along with current optional classes (which would exempt the student from the 7th year obligation)

That’s all I can think of off the top of my head. I’m sure there are problems I haven’t considered with some of them.

 

Thing is, wizards have their own special, unique, societal brand of logic. Everything that we think only someone with a retarded-level IQ could come up with was made by their equivalent of Freud, Einstein, Locke, or Darwin. Just because we, being mostly nerds like Hermione with a heavy submersion in muggle logic, can't understand the logic of wizards, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

Frankly, we 'muggles' find it logical for people to take all the land, slaves, wealth, power, etc. possible in order for societies to thrive. But that is simply a consequence of how we fight, live, and grow. We need loads of land, loads of workers, and loads of money in order to supply food for an entire population.

Wizards, on the other hand, while forced to grow their crop as well, seeing as we all know magic can't conjure food, have spells that can speed things up tremendously. They can plow the land and implant seed with no manpower but one guy or girl with a wand working for a couple hours. They can make water from nothing. They can, most likely, use a spell or two to keep the weather over the land perfect. They also have fertilizer that is far better than our synthesized stuff.

And then, when all that's done, they can multiply the results with a growing charm to make something equal to one of Hagrid's pumpkins.

Hell, they don't even need farms. I bet families, with or without house elves, could make all the food they need by themselves with no help from anyone.

Even past the idea of food, war takes on a completely different meaning in a society where land and movement and enemy lines mean NOTHING. If you can have a whole battalion apparate behind a bunch of stupid enemies who are all lined up, you'll have one quick battle. In other words, having more lands is pointless, because it means nothing to war. Not even the most entrenched areas would be protected, because there is really nothing in canon that can stop wizards from apparating anywhere but a very specific location. Yea! The castle has fucking airtight security! ...But that doesn't mean a whole wave of enemies couldn't appear on your vast muggle-style lands and use fiend fire to set all your medieval peasants and slaves and shit up in flames before you even know about it.

That's the reason why we don't have wizards taking over large areas or even wanting to. Not only do they not need it, but having a lot of people in a very widespread area simply means that they'd have much more trouble defending it from enemies.


Now, in a world where there is as much independence (or at least possibility for independence) as shown above, why would the Government have any more power than the somewhat lax authority (until book 7) they hold in canon? When the most powerful weapon in the world of wizards is placed in the hands of eleven-year-olds, what makes the aurors that different from the regular Joe or Jane? Yeah, they're better trained to fight, but there are only a very small amount of them compared to the thousands of normal witches and wizards in the world. They have no way to control anyone unless they were given control.

In other words, the wizarding world only exists as it does because of the social contract. "You sheeple are scared of people using magic you don't understand? Fine, we'll make that illegal. But if we protect you like this, then we expect this in return." "Great! But some of us are rich, and we don't like being monitored." "Okay, just chalk up some money, and we'll leave your houses alone." "Oh, and fuck werewolves!" "True that, brah!"

With these three things in mind- food is abundant, land is useless, and power is only as centralized as the people allow- it's pretty easy to see why the Wizarding world is so different from our own. They're not just a different culture. They're practically a different species.

EDIT: And this isn't to say that they couldn't do things better. I'm just saying that the more general parts of wizarding life make sense when magic is taken into account. I agree with the person above for the most part. I just don't agree with all the 'muggle studies' bull shit from everyone. No wizards care about muggles. Why would they?

 

There are these things called wards,ever heard of them?

And how would Hogwarts be more secured with a guard, then with Albus Dumbledore as Headmaster?

 

1. Dumbledore doesn't do anything in canon to secure the school. In fact, most of the time that there is trouble at Hogwarts, he's nowhere to be found.

2. A security officer could do anything from catch students breaking curfew, to investigate magical assaults in the corridors or sabotaged potions.

3. A security officer would be obligated, as a professional to take complaints from students seriously (Snape's going to steal the stone, or I know where the chamber of secrets is, or that werewolf forgot his potion, or Hey Madeye, why did you enter Harry in the Triwizard tournament?)

 

I'f I'm getting him right, it's not about power, but about having someone with an external grant of authority.

 

I was talking about Dumbledore acting in a logical magical world,not cannon Dumbledore.

With his power and wisdom he should have kept the stone in his pocket maybe? Save Sirius himself? I dunno.

 

All teachers besides Trelawney and a couple of the DADA seem comptent enough. Dumbledore hired Trelawney to hear possible future prophecies [which is logical] and the DADA teachers are the best he could find. You think that in our supposedly logical world we have the absoulute best in all feilds as school teachers?

Also, there's about 20 students per classroom so I don't see a problem with the number of teachers.

...
...
Find me a real school that teaches to be a waiter or a flight attendent. School is to gain knowledge and to give you tools for the future, not to find you a job.

Again, that sounds absoulutley retarded. There's only 2 known people who know Parseltongue in the world [so it sounds pretty unlogical to look for it], Metamorphmagus for all we know is evident soon enough in babies. Testing for Divination skills is slightly less retarded, but just thinking of it makes me want to bash you in the head.

Why? None of the muggle-borns seemed to have any trouble adjusting and figuring stuff up after a few month.

For reasons mentioned, totally stupid.

There's a reason we don't do that in the real world. It's called human rights.

Why is that logical?

What's the logic in wearing something that doesn't protect you from the cold on top of real cloth?

 

@ The Heir: Hm, yeah, excellent post. I do agree with what you've said; a wizard's 'modern' abilities pretty much make everything that motivates the modern 'muggle' null and void. But what about back in the day when spells and whatnot were still being developed? I just can't see magical peoples ever putting up with non magicals--I think realistically, they would have exterminated muggles a long time ago.

As for the 'no centralized government unless we say so'... well, that was and is true for normal humans today. We are all born with more or less equal potential as far as strength and talents are concerned--at least in comparable fashion to what an entirely magical society would be like. I think maybe the methods some people use to govern or control other people might be a lot more extreme, but on the other hand... without the need for specialized workers (farmers, crafters, priests, etc), and thus no need for higher level organization, they might not even have to develop such a complex society that would require a governmental structure. Huh.

 

As a Journalism student I can definitively say that you're an idiot. I mean, I like what you say 95% of the time, but that's a stupid statement to make--especially since every professor I've ever had has said this to me: You have to check your facts. Granted, there are newspapers that bend the truth to fit their story, but that doesn't mean they are free to just say whatever the fuck they want with no repercussions.

 

I didn't mean that there weren't repercussions, but look at how many retractions are printed in newspapers, or statements given by people on the evening news to the effect of "We were wrong sorry." I mean people get fired over this stuff, but it still happens because people are put under pressure to get the story before other newspapers/shows beat you to it, and it has caused a lack of doing a proper check of information. Recently, things have gotten better due to people on the internet taking newspapers to task for some of the mistakes, but it comes down to pressure from producers to get the story first. There have been several cases of this in the past few years.

Then there are governments who control newspapers with an iron fist like in China which given the secluded nature of the wizarding world and the amount of control Fudge seems to wield over the most popular newspaper seems to be a highly likely possibility as well. If this is the case then facts don't need to be checked because they are just doing whatever the government says. Plus, what facts? In most cases in the Harry Potter world, it was the word of Harry and Dumbledore vs. the word of the Ministry of Magic and several rich citizens. A very old eccentric man and a young celebrity who hasn't even finished his schooling aren't exactly reliable sources when compared to the force they were facing.

But back to newspapers in general, their are also gossip rags that aren't held accountable for what they print, and the said thing is people actually believe some of that crap. I see newspapers in the wizarding world as a mix between an actual fact based newspaper and a gossip rag especially given the fact that Molly is the one reading it. Most of the time, the Daily Prophet didn't outright lie. It was more like they embellished or took photos well out of context which is definitely something common in the major newspapers. They love taking things out of context to fit whatever political agenda they may have. It is funny that they seem to always forget to report lots of things, and you end up having to read multiple newspapers covering the same story if you want a remotely decent idea of what both sides of an issue really are about.

 

Taure: Just out of curiosity, did you create the plans for that story before or after reading Codex Alera? Was it an influence? I can definitely see some parallels.

 

I think you are correct in that, before muggles became relatively insignificant, wizards tried to destroy them. If something is a threat, there is always a desire to destroy it and take away that threat. At one time, when spells were probably long, arduous, and only known within families, wizards fought against the muggles who could potentially extinct them. But I think that fight is over. It evolved- during the founder's time when there was the first Gryffindor/Slytherin battles- into the (in a cynical way) 'should muggles, being such a lesser species, even have a right to exist and ruin the gene pool?' fight we see in Harry Potter.

I think there is a huge difference in the social contract as muggles know it and the social contract as wizards know it:

In any specific muggle nation, only a minorty (small or large) has any real idea how to use a weapon efficiently. That's what makes government so important in our lives. If we didn't have the government, and the army more specifically, to protect us, none of the progress we see now would have ever been possible, for we would have had no chance to come together and create stuff. I could go into the fact that the vast majority of people are not very intelligent (and therefore don't have the creativity required to survive in a world without magic without governmental protection), but that would take too long.

In the wizarding world once Hogwarts was there (at least in Britain), almost every seventeen-year-olds, at the latest, could do everything that any adult could do. This means to apparate, use Petrificus Totalus and Protego, levitate, summon, banish, transfigure, make basic potions, etc.. They don't really need government until a dark wizard or a dark creature comes along, or a muggle-born shows the muggles about magic. They don't need utilities or transportation. The world is open to them, and, therefore, their society is a bit more lax.

EDIT: Taure, I'm reading through all your ideas, and I have to say that I am halfway between shouting and crying. I'm near shouting because the whole idea is completely epic (and could be made into a book of its own with only a few changes). I'm nearly crying because you are not planning to write this...

Fuck.

 

Remember in book 7, thats how Grindelwald felt.

 

Before. I read Codex Alera just before Christmas '08, this idea goes back to just before summer '08. It all really stemmed from me thinking "what would it be like if transfiguration could give you a younger body?". The rest just came from there really. The way in which it seems influenced by Codex Alera are the Roman themes I guess, but that's more traceable to my love of the T.V. series Rome, which gave me a love of Roman culture.

The other similarity to Alera is the existence of a few extremely powerful magic users who hold lots of political power. This was just the natural result of people of the Dumbledore/Voldemort calibre living forever.

 

There are no wards. Ever.

As for a plausible world. You can't have anything better than what you have when there are only 3,000 wizards and witches. Have you ever visited a town with 3,000 people or less?

In stories, the sheriff is always some power-tripping, bumbling asshole who controls the court which is run by his brother Earl and the mayor interacts with everyone.

In a dynamic, large world, the minister wouldn't give a shit about the Weasleys, he would not be consulting with the headmaster of a school and he wouldn't be so accessible or involved with the mundane that Fudge and Scrimgeour involve themselves with. Furthermore, on the school angle, the school wouldn't be important; "being Slytherin" or "A Gryff" wouldn't matter beyond the age of 17 or 18.

Yet, the entire world - even the one outside of Hogwarts - seems tied to a school that annually hosts 240 members of its population. The Dark Lord who could be mind-controlling Muggle world leaders, financing evil plots by Muggle gambling or achieving mildly satisfying rewards of a less gay nature than chasing after an inept wizard is hell-bent on scheming to take over a school.

It all stems from the government - tell me the size and scope of the government and I'll tell you how large the world is. If not that, then tell me places and settings. In HP, there is Diagon Alley, Hogsmeade and Hogwarts with a couple of hidden buildings. There is no world. Rivendell has more depth and more amenities than the entirety of Magical Britain.

It begs the question as to why anyone would want to save such a pathetic place. I'd learn magic - but fuck wasting an ounce of sweat to save 3000 people who turn on you. FFS, I would know all 3000 people and yet HP doesn't even know one Gryffindor outside of his year that isn't a Weasley or involved with Quidditch. That's fucking retarded.

 

Logical world with an unchanged magic system? Tom Riddle would be a Minister.

 

This.

I just pretend in my own little mind that jkr sucks at math (which I'm pretty sure she does) and there are many, many more people in magical britain than she says. I also like to think there are a large number of magical folk unaccounted for who live in and around muggles, and have cushy top floor offices in the city. You know Arthur's not the only one who tampers with muggle shit.

 

I just pretend that the number of Slytherins watching the Finals during PoA is accurate. That would mean a number of 800 students at Hogwarts.