Idea, post HBP (or post OotP if you feel like rehashing ancient history) the muggles see that things are spinning out of control so they move to seize the only advantage they can, Harry Potter. How? They draft him into the army/navy/para/SAS/whatever...

Why? Post HBP, the Prime Minister hears of DD's death and does not trust the Ministry because of their proven track record of denial and cover-up. He's been briefed about Potter being the "Boy-Who-Lived" and "Chosen One" so he decides to take advantage of his muggle summer accomodations. At least this way the prophesied savior will get some training and support from the "good guys" now that DD can't do it anymore.

Post OotP, could go similarly or could go differently. One of the most underused (IMO) elements of the setting is the Royal Family. Given the 150+ year culture dfference from modern Britain. Is it even logical to assume that the Queen knows nothing? Perhaps as Rotaryfile and Canoncansodoff explore, the Queen is a witch and has kept at least a cusory watch at what's going on. Seeing that DD won't train him, she sends someone out to pick him up and take him to Basic.

Yes, this could easily become a gun-bunny!Harry fic, but I envision it more as a "Harry get's some real training of the 'make me buff in just 8 weeks' variety" story. Once out of training "Lieutenant Potter" gets command of a small spec ops squad of muggleborns turned soldiers. Now with minions and real training Harry turns the war around, picking up horcruxes and kicking DE ass.

 

And they all shoot stunners or reductors out of their AR's? I don't know, when ever I see one of these stories I get that 'Harry Potter-more muggle then wizard' feeling. If they don't turn the muggle technology magical, the plot fails, but if they do then it seems cheap and too easy, which also fails.

The one thing I like of the challenge is part of your final line: "Now with minions and real training Harry turns the war around". This immediately adds a positive aspect to the story as any 'Harry with minions and plausible training' makes me smile, but can't keep away the small problem of ... what the hell do you do with the rest of the plot besides going cliche with 'never ending clips' and 'reducter enhanced bullets with super!full-metal jackets'? Harry goes bad ass with hundreds of muggle-tech using muggle-borns. How is that different from Harry goes bad ass with hundreds of muggle-tech using muggles(who he commands such loyalty from that they don't leave him even if he tells them about magic).

If someone can pull this off, major kudos for it's an incredibly hard challenge.

 

Oh hell no! I am pretty sure I mentioned that while it couldgo gun bunny, that wasn't what I was thinking.

I was thinking more along the lines of wizard or squib ex-pat's of the wizarding world (discriminated against muggleborns and dark family squibs who have nothing to go back to). For them, military service is a good idea so we might see a few more of them there. The Army doesn't require much in the way of education, nor a job history, nor do they ask too many questions... It's the perfect place for a wizard trying to get back into the muggle world to acquire a steady job and employment history.

Now we have Harry and a team of wizards fighting Volde instead of just half trained school children. Plus military superiors means better planning and a well defended base to retreat to. Basically let's have a legitimate reason for all those perfectly planned out details that cliche indy!Harry's suddenly acquire.

 

True dat, but where else can this story go but gun bunny!Harry? He's dealing with squibs or muggle-borns who threw away what their wand represented years before and don't know nearly anything but Hogwarts grade magic .... just like Harry. You still have the problems of -one to one- wizard > muggle. Unless Harry's got some major government backing, I don't think most things you can do with military support would be allowed. They are still in their own country fighting countrymen after all.

Maybe, Caitiff, try and flesh out some ground points about how technology will be superior to magic in your challenge and what squibs with guns and a few poorly trained wizards with guns are going to do against Death Eaters who are better then most fully trained aurors. Maybe reconnaissance and planting explosives in key Death Eater houses, but besides that...

 

I could see it avoiding Gun Bunny!Harry pretty easily, actually. Think about it; say the Queen is a witch, as suggested by the explanation for the challenge. She could have him drafted, but not in the muggle sense; instead, he could be drafted by the "Wizarding Army," whom would promptly teach him spells and dueling technique, as opposed to how to properly kill your enemy dead with an AK-47.

 

This sounds a lot like Rorschach's Blot's Old Soldiers Never Die

I haven't read it in a long time, but from what I recall a lot of the elements you want are already in that fic.

My first reaction was: The navy? WTF would the navy have to do with it? But I was wrong. The Royal Marines (along with others) were deployed in Northern Ireland during The Troubles. They can be employed in a domestic situation.

I doubt that any intelligence or military organisation would have a reason to shanghai Harry into service. Why would they take him over Michael Corner, or anyone else? The secret of the prophecy is not only well kept, it's also very open to interpretation. Can you imagine what a modern intelligence agency would make of that rubbish in the harsh light of day?

And why would they recruit some 16yo snot nosed brat into a potential war when they've got many adult muggle borns and squibs to choose from? Why would they even want to put wizards behind the barrel of a gun? Magic won't help you shoot straighter... or maybe it could (my imagination isn't warmed up) but that'd definitely be outside anything we've seen in canon.

That said, I do still like the idea. I've been thinking of something vaguely similar for a while.

Isn't having a fresh-out-of-training officer parachuting into the command of a magical, muggleborn, spec ops squad about to deploy into a war a bit much? That's a whole lot of drama and conflict right there. An untried young officer who has to earn the respect and leadership of his older, experienced men whilst carrying out desperate and essential missions for Queen and country. A good writer could really work with that.

As long as the plot holes and jarring contrivances aren't just skipped because the author didn't even think of them, then your idea could be very good.

Yak.

 

Please read what he wanted us to write about

Now where in the army/navy/para/SAS/etc do you find people to 'promptly teach him spells and dueling technique?' That's why I want to know how flexible he is allowing this challenge to be. As of now, though, he's fighting with squibs from dark families and supressed muggle-borns. That isn't a world class 'wizarding army'.

 

Yes, yes, I have, in fact, read it; I just happened to note the fact that The-Caitliff mentioned the Queen conceivably being a witch, and ran with it, giving as basic of an explanation of how they could instead train Harry to be a sort of Wizard-soldier, instead of just a soldier.

I suppose I did kind of ignore the fact that the challenge asks for him to be in the Muggle army, though; that's something that would have to be changed for it to avoid being Gun Bunny!Harry, unfortunately.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, even in the Muggle armies, despite his training with firearms, Harry could naturally just prefer Magic, or maybe close combat weapons such as, say, knives. Just because you're trained to do something, doesn't mean you have to automatically fall in love with it.

 

You fail.

Why knives? Or swords? Or spears? Or any other fucking medieval weapon?

Magic > Guns > Bladed Weapons


You could possibly, if you insist on writing this challenge, have it that Harry was in the cadets when he was pre-Hogwarts. Every army regiment has its own cadet branch, as does the navy and the air force. Therefore you have reasonable cause for him to be recruited into the army proper. Perhaps he signed a form, or the Dursley's did, saying that he would join up for a minimum period once he was of legal age and out of full time education. The army has kept track of him, now he's 16 and they have no records of him attending schools since he was 11, thus they go knock on his door and inform him he has a legal obligation to join up. He see's the chance to get in shape before Dumbledore comes and rescues him and go from there.

So you would basically have him get however many weeks worth of basic training before Dumbledore shows up, provides proof that Harry is attending an exclusive private school in Northern Scotland, and therefore is not required to be in the military yet. Then you go on and do the indi!Harry thing, basic training having got him into good shape, and also having given him a basic head up on the fact that he knows didly squat about how to fight people and kill people.

 

Have we really seen that Magic > Guns?

I've just realised that this must have come up in DLP before, and indeed it has. Thank god for thread searches.

The poll showed roughly a 2:1 split on opinion in favour of a wizard winning vs a muggle with a gun (in a "fair" fight). But that is obvioulsy nowhere near a conclusive outcome that magic will always trump firearms. I haven't read the whole thread, but it should be required reading for anyone who writes fic on the subject.

Because this hypothetical fic has a foot in both worlds, magic and muggle, any potential authors should also go through this thread comparing and contrasting the two.

Yak.

Just to re-iterate.
Wizard with Wand vs Muggle with Gun
Wizarding and Muggle Worlds Compared

 

It is possible to create a feasible train of logic that would allow this story.

We know that the muggle world knows about the existence of the magical one (HBP, Fudge speaking to the prime minister). It is likely that this would be shared between one or two higher members of government, or even that the ministry of magic have links with the muggle government to help cover up any problems that might arise if some wizards got drunk and caused trouble etc.

This would lead the possibility that the armed forces or intelligence services have worked to get their hands on a wizard based squad, maybe due to muggleborns or squibs being approached. They hear about the mysterious saviour of the wizarding world and plan to approach him since their lives apparently hang in his balance.

This way Harry would get training (in battle magic rather than guns) and it would allow for the scenario proposed by the-caitiff.

 

Yak, magic is greater than a gun because with magic you can summon the gun from a position too far away for the person to accurately aim.

We see in GoF that you don't need to see, or have line of sight to, an object you summon. Rather, if you concentrate on it, it comes. So you flick your wand, think a word, and the gun comes to you before they even have a chance to draw it/chamber a round/cock it/whatever.

Or alternatively, you can simply conjure a thick rock wall between yourself and the gunman/gunmen, wait until they need to reload and banish the rock wall straight at them, or animate the bushes nearby, or animate the grass, or conjure a few large spiders, etc etc etc.

Magic will always triumph, because even the first years at Hogwarts can cast potentially lethal spells. A 14 year old can cast a spell that could potentially blast a mans head/leg/arm off. With one word they can make their wand a flame thrower. Again, a 14 year old can cast a severing charm. I don't know how powerful a charm it is, but you could theoretically over power it and do more damage. Hell, you can get your 13 year olds to send over powered cheering charms at the enemy and make then hysterical. Its hard to aim when you're laughing your head off.

And to note, the people who voted for muggle in that poll, are the idiots who think a Government could nuke wizards. Given that wizards live in and amongst muggles, can easily pass themselves off as muggles if need be, whereas to access somewhere like Diagon Alley you actually need to have magic, it would be impossible for muggles to eradicate wizards.

 

Mordecai, don't automatically assume that my point was to say that Knives are superior to guns and magic, because that is far from the truth. The entire point of that edit was to say that, even if he was drafted into the SAS/Navy/Etc., there are still ways to avoid having a Gun Bunny!Harry.

Hell, he could still make the decision to only use magic, but work with all the intensive physical - and, potentially mental - training he'd gone through, dodge spells almost without thought, casting simple spells with originally unintended effects (for example, the severing charm you mentioned).

 

you know what's better than knives and guns?

magic.

 

The way I could see this working, is for some reason, Harry at the age of 18 gets drafted to the military. I don't know about British military/army though so I don't know if they would do that to someone that young, but that would be amusing.
Would stop the hunt for evil Harry is working on if he gets drafted though, but someone would just take his place for the military so it would not work.

 

I know he's been banned and everything, but could someone confirm that he is just restating exactly what I said, and I didn't imagine posting in this thread?

Fucking retard.

Herr Smily, whilst I can't see the British military doing a draft, I can clear up the age thing for you. Age 16 you can join the military. Thats why I suggested the contract signed by the Dursley's whilst Harry attended some regiments cadet branch.

 

I feel I should point out that there's a reason why the Wizard vs. Muggles thread is locked.

If people don't want to see the evidence that is in canon, then they won't.

 

Yeah that idea would be better.
The only issue with that is, I know someone else would go in Harrys place since whoever has to go can use magic to make them look like Harry.

 

Well, if it occured over the summer, its possible that canon!Harry wouldn't think to try and contact someone, isn't it. Its also possible that rather than making him a moping emo cunt, Sirius' death acted as a catalyst, and then the opportunity to do basic training came along. Magic is still the be all and end all in combat, but having some fitness training won't hurt him, and neither will living in a highly disciplined area.

It is basically on the very beginning of a fic, which would probably turn into a fairly standard indi!Harry fic, but you've avoided the cliches at the start, so you can hopefully just introduce a few decent plot bunnies during the remainder of the fic, and it would remain (if not totally original) reasonably readable.

 

True, The cannon!Harry would be insane enough to think the army is a good idea and in fact join.
Once Harry is in the army you can just make it too hard to get him free so he would be stuck there even if the wizards tried to free him.
Huzzah an indi!Harry plot that doesn't fail!