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Abandoned Control by Anonymous58 - M

Discussion in 'Dark Arts' started by Andro, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. turtle7

    turtle7 Backtraced

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    The less logic I use when living life, the more fun I have.

    Completely agree, lets collectively lower the cognitive function of the entire human population.

    Oh wait, I think the (insert race, category, organization, George Bush) have beat us to it.
     
  2. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

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    Clearly I'm not doing it for identification, I've already said it's a mannerism. Instead of venting on me go outside and shout at people who style their hair a way you don't like, wear different clothes to you or just don't conform to your perceptions of the norm.

    Dark-Stallion Dark-Stallion Dark-Stallion Dark-Stallion Dark-Stallion Dark-Stallion Dark-Stallion, gee that feels better. Honestly...


    I'm not emulating anyone. I'm sorry you find me to be an 'ass', perhaps we could both co-exist better if you were to ignore the few characters I leave at the end of a post. Or, better yet, you not judge someone on such a small, insignificant idiosyncrasy.


    Never been called 'Stallion' before; just realised my name is pretty fucking stupid, good thing that writing it so much apparently gets me off.

    I'm not really applying logic so much as pointing out a precedent set in canon. As I've said, I do actually like the fic somewhat, but I am being harsher than I would on a lesser fic because I can see that the author actually has talent. The mistakes I see are thus not caused by lack of ability, but from what I perceive as either laziness or not a well fleshed plan, so I am posting an honest review on what I feel is letting the fic down.

    If the author wants to have Harry being able to fire of the Unforgivables at the age of 12, then go for it; however I will criticise it as not being in conjunction with what we have seen in canon. If you disagree, fine; debate with me. I enjoy it.

    Dark-Stallion.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  3. Scrib

    Scrib The Chosen One

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    As much as dislike Stallions idosyncracrasy, I have to go with him here, thinking too much? Wut? So you shod just ignore something wrong with a story because it's inconvienient and affects your enjoyment? And not give any criticism at all on it at least to prevent it happening again?

    No, if something is wrong you fucking point it out, you don't just brush it under the fucking mat. I know quality fanfics are hard to find but that doesn't mean they should be railroaded into the library.

    I just realized I'm defending a guy who signs his name, I hate myself now.
     
  4. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Don't worry, I hate you as well.

    EDIT!

    - All-Powerful-Oz
    (The Magical Eggplant, the Lolrus, and harbringer of :awesome)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  5. Iztiak

    Iztiak Prisoner

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    As opposed to a guy who signs someone else's name?

    I think you meant "signs his posts". :p
     
  6. Sin Saiori

    Sin Saiori Death Eater

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    Alright then.

    The precedent set in canon was that some spells could be cast on a whim, some could only be cast with the right intent behind them, and others required a more thorough understanding and practice to use.

    I think the problem here is the lack of precedent set in canon. JKR was smart when she purposefully left the how as vague as possible and simply wrote the what/when/why. For example, when Shezza had Dumbledore explain the concept of horcruxes, that was the best written how in fanfiction history, but the fact remains that all the facts behind spellcasting remain purely fanon.

    Hopefully that's explanation enough for how I'm not brushing anything under the mat, I'm simply taking what the author is doing at face value.
     
  7. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

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    I disagree, we are given more insight into the Unforgivables than nearly any other curses in canon.

    "Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it—you could all get your wands out and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nosebleed." Barty Crouch Jnr as the faux-Moody in the Goblet of Fire.

    From this definition we can gather it's actually rather difficult to cast. Who do we actually see cast the Avada Kedavra in canon? Off the top of my head we have Voldemort, Snape, Crouch Jnr, Pettigrew, Bellatrix, Crabbe Jnr...

    Easily the weakest there is Crabbe Jnr, and from what I remember from DH he was coached personally by one of the Carrow's.

    On the Cruciatus, Bellatrix tells us in the Order of the Phoenix;

    "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain ... to enjoy it ... righteous anger won't hurt me for long ... I'll show you how it is done, shall I? I'll give you a lesson -"

    In canon Harry was the youngest caster of this at 15, but as we know he didn't do it properly. After him Crabbe would probably be the youngest, at either 17 or 18, but again this is after he was personally trained.

    This is probably the more likely than Avada Kedavra to succeed in the situation we have in the fic, Harry seems to genuinely want to inflict pain for pleasure.

    ""Crucio," I whispered almost lovingly, truly the most affectionate voice I'd ever dared use around my family."

    Again, though, I am doubtful that one would be able to cast it properly at twelve without prior instruction (even then it would still be as stretch).

    Harry's casting of the Avada Kedavra;

    "Avada Kedavra!" I snarled, gathering all of the black hate within my breast and shoving it into my wand.

    It is fuelled by anger. Bella says that you 'have to mean them', collectively defining all 3 of the Unforgivables; you have to want to cause absolute destruction, complete death. Anger will only get you so far.

    Add to this that he is twelve (I can't stress this enough) and that is why I am being anal retentive over this.

    Dark Stallion.

    PS: After getting the quotes the fact that Vernon has a 'gun cupboard' is also an anomaly. I doubt anyone in Surrey has even seen a real shotgun, never mind having one on apparent display in their living room.
     
  8. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Wat? Which rules are you even talking about? There are, as far as I am aware, no 'rules' regarding spells. We know what Bella tells us regarding the Cruciatus, which may be true, but beyond that ... what? And this is an AU on top of that, so it might be different altogether anyway.

    I read this as "I am making up rules" and then "Now I'm annoyed that magic doesn't fit my rules". Seriously?

    Yeah, except, it .... isn't his first try? The basis of the entire argument isn't even valid. The first time we know of, he uses it in the chamber against Riddle. And then, it isn't said if it works. The entire ending of the Chamber is left unclear, so far. We can only infer that Ginny died and Harry did not. How, what, where -- it's intentionally left unsaid by the author.

    If you can postulate the 'complexity' of the Killing Curse (which is an entirely arbitrary assumption -- Moody tells us it needs power, something which this Harry definitely has, not finesse or skill), I can postulate that he tried casting it after the chamber incident, so it works beautifully against Dumbledore in combat now.
     
  9. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    To be honest, I think it's impossible for him to cast those spells without consuming very large amounts of ice-cream and singing a showtune beforehand.
     
  10. The Fine Balance

    The Fine Balance Headmaster

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    Well, apparently magical theory had not been discussed Ad nauseam enough. Go figure.

    I like the story. It is quite interesting. And technically, his writing is quite good. What I severely dislike however is Harry's narrative voice. "black hate within my breast" - to quote a quick example. It's best at parts when he zooms back to describe some thing or the other; worst when he is talking about actions and movements (especially during battle scenes.) At those points I find it pretty much pretentious and way over the top. Still, it's excellence subsumes this one flaw, and for now I'd give it 4/5.

    Ps. I despise this genre in general, so there are a number of critiques you can lay on his conception of Harry. But, not really factoring that here. Basically, within the confines of its genre, it works really well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  11. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

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    It's a common figure of speech, not to be taken literally. Clearly you did.

    From what we gather from the description, his first attempt was successful.

    "I walked past the mutilated corpse of the serpent, past the shocked face of a teenaged Dark Lord, ducked my head under an arc of viridian lightning and patted the shoulder of my enraged younger self."

    In the HP-verse an indication of a spell working/failing is the spell-light. If it is present, it worked. If not, it didn't. We could argue semantics again, the semi-successful casting of the patronus producing a weak mist, but the description here is potent, suggesting a complete spell.

    You make a good point though, on perhaps that wasn't the first time he had cast it. I am under the assumption that it is, for to me it is even more ludicrous that an eleven or twelve year old would be idiotic enough to practice such spells in a school. Especially since Hogwarts would more than likely seem a paradise, considering this version of Harry is comming from an even more abusive background than canon; otherwise Voldemort would have danced around Hogwarts killing all the Muggleborns that way. This Harry is intelligent, if he is caught he gets expelled and sent back to the Dursley's, minus wand; he doesn't want that. But so long as he has this magical amulet to focus his magic, and this internal black fire of death, he should be fine, right?


    Postulate all you want. Moody also suggests a room full of 14 year olds wouldn't have enough power to kill him, yet this Harry at age 12 does. Mind you, at age 12 he is also able to freeze-bomb a millennia old mythical beast and is skilled enough at legilimency/occlumency to get the better of Moody (and perhaps Dumbledore, hiding what truely happened in teh chamber), so perhaps you're right...

    Again, I've shown in canon the youngest practitioner of the Avada Kedavra we 17 or 18 at the time (excluding Voldemort, age 16?), and that was after private tutelage. Do you really have no qualms about a twelve year old actively using the most elite dark spells and being so well versed in the mind arts?

    Dark-Stallion.

    Edit; Honestly, I didn't want to clog up this thread with debate. I'll refrain from posting here again unless I have more to add to my original review if new chapters are added. If you want to continue debating anything pm me with either your points or a thread where we can discuss properly without causing clutter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  12. The Fine Balance

    The Fine Balance Headmaster

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    Oh come on. If you are accepting all the other shitty cliches of the genre, why not this?
     
  13. mike.90

    mike.90 First Year

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    I tried to ignore this thread but for some reason, I have to say this:

    Dark-Stallion, please stop with the bitching. Seriously, are you a fuckin wizard? Have you been to Hogwarts or are you a fuckin Dark Lord? Oh yeah, that's right, your a fuckin fan fiction writer. If you don't like the damn story then write something better and less cliched.

    I am getting sick of the stupid quotes from the books. I thought most people in DLP agreed that JKR fucked up the books?

    Also, Canon Harry was pussy but this Harry isn't BWL and actually has some balls. Don't forget Tom Riddle killed his uncle at 17 but has been terrorizing people for ever.

    So STFU.

    I hope the author updates soon.
     
  14. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Yes, and now we're getting somewhere. You'll notice I wrote in my very first post that Harry is powerful -- perhaps a tad too much -- in regards to his age. But within that frame, in this story, I don't find it unlikely that Harry can successfully cast the Unforgivables.

    And as I said then, I don't mind either. When all is said and done, that kinda is the point of a Dark!Harry >_>


    Edit: Anon58, since I see you're about to reply: don't mind the sudden magical theory debate. It's kinda a ritual to have it popping up every now and then :D And usually, you can only lose in an argument about it anyway >_>
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  15. Anonymous58

    Anonymous58 Muggle

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    How did you know? That was an offscreen moment.

    Seriously though, thanks for all the reviews everyone! I'll confess, the story started as an idea that I couldn't get out of my head until I put fingers to keyboard and it's spiraled from there. I certainly hadn't expected it to be this well received - it's the first thing I've written other than academic papers and such.

    To address the magical theory issue, this story was written under the pretense that dark magic is based on emotions. These darker emotions (Hate, rage, avarice, etc) give focus to the intent of the spells. This is one of the reasons the Ministry outlaws them - anyone with enough anger, who is disillusioned enough or simply damaged enough can cast them with proper motivation and study. Granted this theory isn't for everyone nor should it be, but it's the theory I chose to base this story - especially in regards to Harry's magic.

    The early angst wasn't a popular section of the fic and if I'm honest I didn't care so much to write it. However, it helped to set up and give some degree of insight into this Harry's past. His emotions have triggered his magic for all of his life, and in return it has shifted to accomodate him and protect him. The 'fire' is his mind's representation of his magic, and how perverted it has become. More will be made clear in the story.

    Hopefully that's explained some of my thoughts going into the fic. In all honesty I didn't want to write a canon rehash, so Harry is more powerful than canon. I try to keep it reasonable where best I can, and I'm sure I've failed in that regard at points. Regardless, it's damned fun to write him kicking ass.

    The story certainly isn't for everyone, but if you can suspend your disbelief enough I hope it can be found enjoyable. Personally I've always enjoyed the dark/evil Harry genre, which is what sparked this fic.

    Now, I require a bit of space for a small rant.

    Tonks is a bitch to write! I don't know enough British colloquialisms! What was I thinking!?

    I've resorted to watching the BBC. This chapter may take a few more days.

    Figures I don't read this until after I've typed up my own spiel, doh. Oh well, I'll leave it there for posterity.
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    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  16. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Dún na ngall
    High Score:
    5,792
    Watch Doctor who.

    Despite it being about an alien time-lord, the main character is always spiffingly english.
     
  17. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    426
    Location:
    England
    That explains away any issues nicely.

    Understandable. However you are clearly a talanted writer, and it is well within your ability to write a more believable set-up. Prologue parts 2-4 were fantastic, it just seems to me you aren't doing yourself justice in the first few plot devices.

    I look forward to more installments. I would suggest that you consider using the Work by Author section before posting on FF.net. They would help to make sure no Americanisms slip through, and are certain to catch any spelling or grammar errors you happened to have missed.

    Dark-Stallion.
     
  18. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,689
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
  19. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,130
    Location:
    The other side of reality
    It's well-received because it's good. Seriously, man, I'm liking this.

    You don't need British colloquialisms to write Tonks, IMO. Just make her awesome and things come along a lot better.

    Seriously, though, I've got to say that I'm with Dark-Stallion on the magical theory debate, but since the author showed up, I'll dispense with that, say that it's too early to rate, but that I am looking forward to more. Keep it up, man. Go post an intro and shit - we're always looking for more quality authors.
     
  20. Sizdothyx

    Sizdothyx First Year

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    I can't add anything further to the whole 'magic debate' besides this: it's MAGIC. You do whatever shit you imagine with it, from cooking to bringing airplanes down, emotions or no emotions. And, as far as fake!Moody goes, he obviously meant that not even one out of 20-30 KIDS could cast the spell properly, because, hey, what do you know, they are just that.

    Other than that, I gotta agree with most of what the people above me said so far - very well written story, good premise, cliched or not, who cares, it works. I especially like the way Occlumency is portrayed by the author as some sort of Astral Projection as opposed to something pulled out of the X-mansion. I really look forward to reading more.

    Oh, let's not forget that the Bella in this one is probably the best one I've read in fanfiction so far. Amazing characterization.