I would like to point out that writing a continuation without copying any text from the original Authors work. While douchy is just writing fanfiction of fanfiction, which there really isn't anything wrong with. Copying someones text and passing it of as your own though, that is stealing and should be stomped down as soon as it shows up.

And that is the last I will post on this subject, my opinions of the subject make me look a bit like a douche I'm afraid.

 

That is only, if you consider writing fanfiction based on fanfiction "stealing", which I don't.

 

Doesn't matter to me whether you think it's stealing or not; it's still a dick thing to do. It doesn't have to fit under the category of stealing to be wrong. Just like how you don't have to break a law to be a douche.

 

Thats good and all, but my post had nothing to do with discussing fanfictions of fanfiction why was it moved?

 

At The new and improved OP topic.

At best it's a socially acceptable dick move.

 

Umm, why would you cheat on a test by copying someone else's answers, and then write "Disclaimer: answer copied from person next to me"? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of copying in the first place? Sorry for off-topic but I just had to ask

 

/r/HPfanfiction, I mean that's why this whole thing got started isn't it? I may be misunderstanding s1, but if he was referring to them - they found it socially acceptable at the time and started a forum around it.

And this being the internet, there's always going to be less conscientious objection for some people copying things for a host of reasons. In a certain group of people it's acceptable to torrent etc.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the DLP party line. If this happened to me I'd be pissed. I write so slowly that I'd very likely not be the 'authoritative version' and something like that would be a massive fuck you from whomever had (perhaps) enjoyed my story to begin with.

 

Halt. India I guess? There was pictures floating around with the children's parents climbing school walls etc to slip the kids the answers recently. [LINK]

But I was thinking more along the lines of the popularity of things like piracy of tv and movies etc.

 

Why is this even a topic or discussion? Of course you shouldn't steal someone's work without their permission!

 

So we're on the same page and not talking past each other, let's define a hypothetical scenario with the following conditions:
- Author A has written an unfinished fanfic. Let's call it "The Unfinished Fanfic" - TUF and it's up to Chapter 10.
- Author B has published a fic that is described to be a "continuation" of TUF from Chapter 10.
- Author B has only published their own, new work. They have not copied and pasted anything Author A wrote.
- Author B has referenced Author A in their summary and called the fic a continuation attempt.
- Author B has not in any way claimed the endorsement of Author A, or otherwise claimed it is an "official" continuation.
- Author B has even called the fanfic something slightly different. "TUF: The Continuation" (TUF:C) to avoid confusion.
- Author B has not asked Author A for permission

Is this a situation that you guys refer to as stealing, plagiarization or just generally being an immoral dick?

I really don't see any problem with it whatsoever, but from my understanding, a lot of previous posts seem to suggest people do have an issue.

Is it stealing? Not really. Unless Author B has gained unpublished copies of Author A's work, published it under their name and claimed ownership, he has not wrongfully deprived Author A of anything to their own benefit.

Is it plagiarism? As long as Author B is not claiming endorsement from Author A, not republishing writing that was not written by them and has even cited Author A in their summary, it cannot be plagiarism. Plagiarism is the act of passing off someone else's work as your own, which by definition, they have not done by citing the original author.

It is fanfiction of fanfiction. A derivative work that cites the original and then calls itself an unofficial, unendorsed work that is based on that original. Fundamentally, not at all conceptually different from all those OotP sequels that were written before HBP came out.

I completely reject Definitely Not Taure's contention that there is some fundamental difference in the canon-fanfiction and fanfiction-fanfiction relationship in this particular case.

Just as an OotP fanfiction sequel cannot claim to be written by JK Rowling, Author B's fanfic continuation cannot claim to be written by Author A. And just as the author of the OotP fanfiction sequel cannot claim credit for the first 4 HP books, Author B is not claiming credit for the first 10 chapters of TUF.

With the conditions defined above, it is clear to any reader that the only official storyline to TUF is what Author A publishes or endorses. If Author B's fanfic is ridiculously popular and completely eclipses Author A's own Chapters 11 onwards, TUF is still Author A's work and TUF:C is still Author B's work and the clear derivative. Hell, from a purely logistical point of view, a reader will need to read the citation/reference to TUF and read the first ten chapters of that prior to reading TUF:C. It is blatantly obvious which is the original and which is the fanfic and there is no really, no scope for confusion.

Now, is can there be a claim is that by Author B taking the ideas from Author A, he has wrongfully deprived Author A the chance to win popularity from being unique in his concept? I call this hypocrisy and an attitude that is actually damaging to the community. The entire fanfic community thrives off concepts inspiring similar concepts which may see improved executions or take different routes. It's also a competitive community where writing quality and executions are forced to be high because there are so many different stories with similar concepts. If I'm the first person to write a really unique crossover concept, I still cannot lay claim to owning that idea or demand exclusive control over it. In the case of the continuation, Author B is actually doing Author A a service by citing where their original concept came from.

Again, this is all dependent on those conditions above. It is a completely different story if Author B reposted any of Author A's work or claimed it as "the official continuation of TUF!". I'd even say it tilts over the line if they use the same story title, without making it clear to reader's that it is a distinct, separate work.

 

There is a logic problem here that I'm having difficulty with.

I've read a billion fanfics that start from a point in the HP universe developed by JKR and go from there. These people never asked JKR about using her work, and no one is trying to say that these people are thieves unless they attempt to sell their work.

I've read a few fanfics that start from a point in the HP fanon universe developed by a fanfiction author and go from there. Perhaps these people never asked the fanfiction author about using her/his work; are we now trying to say these people are thieves even if they never attempt to sell their work?

 

JKR is very kind and generous person. All it would take is filling in a complaint and fanfiction (and this community) would just go away. I don't know about you, but if I wrote one million words of a story, putting in my sweat in an effort to make it readable, and then someone would come and butcher my beloved characters and completely screw up grammar, I would hunt that person down and make sure he/she would put that story down and possibly be fined. I don't know, I just find it offensive that one person writes a story, and someone else continues that. Intellectual property is a thing.

 

That's a bold statement, and one that seems to ignore that IP/copyright law differs between countries. Maybe not the US, with all their patent trolls, but elsewhere there's something called fair use, under which falls not-for-profit fanfiction of rationality.

Besides, if you insist on calling fanfiction of fanfiction "theft", then that fanfic's writer is basically a thief crying "thief!".

If we allow fanfiction where the original author/copyright holder has not explicitly taken stance on fanfiction (i.e. Jim Butcher before 2010) and not consider authors of such fanfics to be "dicks", then I don't see how not asking a fanfic's author before writing a fanfic of said fanfic would make one "a dick".

 

Gabrinth FF.Net currently has.. 717K stories. Even if we assume that only a tenth of that number are unique authors that's still a ludicrous number to think someone could respond to. That's why we have blanket statements from authors saying 'this is okay' or 'this is not ok'.

 

Radmar. GRRM didn't/doesn't like/want fanfiction but people even on this site still make fanfiction of his work.