To be fair, we didn't saw that in HP verse either; we saw all magic's from the perspective of the stupid and ignorant Harry.

 

We saw Voldemort's and Dumbledore's duel.

 

First, no problem.

Second, don't forget about silent casting. Which is faster; the mind or the body?

Third, true, but, presuming the HP wizard is going for a kill, instead of fighting for shits and giggles, he'll be using stuff like AK's.

Fourth, also true, so we'll be using Dresden as an example of a reasonable powerful wizard. An wizard with apparition (of which there are many) and the ability to use and AK (of which there are many) will take out most Dresden wizards. You don't need to be Voldemort, as long as your not a total fuck-up.

Fifth, I'm not sure on this one, as it's been awhile since I've read the books, but I think it's true. So what? Defend against their attack, apparate, and AK. The end. Sure the DV wizard can continue to hammer on you, but, from what we've seen HP spell either don't take energy, or take so little it doesn't matter. On the other hand, flipping a car made HD fall to the ground. There are also many other examples of wizards exhausting themselves. DV spells take energy, and a lot of it at that. In a battle of stamina, HP wizards take everything thrown at them, and cast an AK once their enemy can barely stand.

 

This seems to be the main problem in crossovers between the Potterverse and the Dresdenverse (or any other, really). On the one hand, you have a magic system that does not (parsimoniously evaluated) use 'energy' or 'mana' when casting a spell. There is no 'energy debt' that needs to be paid in HP for magic. Repetition and practice is the key to casting well, and more repepetition and practice is the key to mastering a spell. There is no magic field or reservoir that Harry Potter is ever described to draw upon. On the other hand is the Dresdenverse, where (speaking from the perspective of one who hasn't finished the series, so sorry for mistakes) performing magic does take a certain amount of 'energy/mana.' There is magic floating around or contained somewhere that Dresden uses to fuel his magic.

Either system works fine on its own. The problem is when you try to combine them, especially in combat situations, there are two immediate options that not only would be very easy to incorporate but would also make for a bad story.

1.) You could say that HP magic would of course triumph over Dresden magic, because Dresden magic is so primitive it needs energy/mana/whatever. Remember first year, when Harry remarked that smoke and loud noises were the mark of a bad wizard? That's the Dresdenverse.
2.) You could say Dresden magic would of course triumph over HP magic because Dresden magic is strong and powerful and would batter down HP magic. Dresden wizards put their souls into their magic, but HP ones just wave a small stick around and mouth off meaningless words. [I get a slight vibe of this sort from the Denarian series, when Shezza speaks of 'True' wizards versus merely 'Wand' wizards]

EDIT:

Just an idea I had; we know magic can be cast on language. And we know extremely potent curses (potent enough to play with events in a big enough way so that a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher never lasts more than a year) can be cast on abstract ideas such as a job (teaching a specific class). And language is just as abstract as a teaching position. So... It'd be awesome if a HP wizard put a curse on his full name, then, whenever any Dresden tries to work Thaumaturgy with it, that wizard would immediately explode. Or something.

Furthermore, while we have not seen many high-powered HP magic, the small bit we have seen is very impressive. Talking with the dead, the Taboo, the aforementioned curse that directed fate (and, when you consider the situation, must have been cast by Voldemort in a very short time period, as he was leaving the school after being rejected for the teaching position; I think Dumbledore would have put a stop to it if Voldemort had required a long time to get all these complicated ingredients and draw out a properly arcane-looking magic circle and recite a long dead-language chant).

 

Personally, I've always seen Dresden Magic to be more strong, but alot slower. In a one on one fight, the Dresden Wizard would get fucked up without some part of their opponents DNA.

But then, Dresden wizards would never really need to get close to the HP Wizards. It's insanely easy to get some of their shit (Both literal and metaphorical shit). Some Thaumaturgy and BOOM bye bye wizard. With the HP wizards medieval lifestyle, they probably leave their stuff all over the place. And don't get me started on public names.

Even after all that, I'd rather be a HP wizard. Their lives are alot easier. They have those small charms, for cleaning and stuff that the D-Wizards don't. And even though they choose not to, they could work with technology.

As for the idea, I think with a little finetuning it could be good. But I'd turn it into a three way war. With Harry Potter Wizards and Winter working together against Voldemort. Summer joins the White Council aiding them with the Red Court fight, and in return they help in their vendetta against Winter and via proxy, Harry Potter Wizards. Voldemort latches on to the White Court, bringing with him all his enemies and at the same time alot of magical allies. This forces them to join with the Red Court and Black court.

I think it'd make for some awesome large scale action scenes.

Also, I've only read the first 9 Dresden books, so if somethings screwed up there, tell me it's wrong. Don't say why though

 

Yeah, HP wizards probably leave stuff lying around...in homes, or something. Which have wards on them. Weird wards.

And to make up for the fact that DV wizards have Thaumaturgy, HP wizards can apparate.

So what, you say?

Well, how do I say this. DV wizards don't have wards against apparition. And HP wizards couldn't give less of a shit about Thresholds.

 

It's not as if Wizards refuse to walk anywhere that isn't warded as all hell. There are heaps of public places to get shit. Diagon Alley, Hogsmeade, Platform 9 3/4 etc.

And HP wizards need to know where the DV wizards are to apparate to them. And DV wizards have wards as well. And by the looks of it, theirs are alot more violent then HP ones. And just because they don't have wards against apparition, doesn't mean that their existing ones won't affect the apparators.

 

That's where your wrong. Apparition is like teleportation. It's not super-speed or and thing like that. One second your somewhere, the next your somewhere else. Which means, your suddenly inside your enemies house. Bypassing all wards that keep people out, meaning they'd only be affected by the ones that affect the people inside. Which sounds like a bad idea to have, considering that the DV wizard may well be in there as well. Why have wards to blow yourself up?

As for finding the DV wizard, use tracking spell. There are plenty of ways to find someone. If the HP wizard is particularly savvy, he can even use the internet to find them.

Also, why would you walk into your enemies base? If you did that, you'd need to go through all of his defenses. Why do that why you can bypass all of them (or at least, most of them)? That makes no sense to me.

How the hell would a DV wizard find Diagon Ally, Hogsmeade or Platform 9 3/4? Assuming they can even see those places.

To get into Diagon Alley, you need to go through the Leaky Cauldron. Why is a DV wizard in some random bar in London? But for the sake of this discussion, I'll use my Suspension of Disbelief, Extra Strength. Now what? If memory serves, you need to know a sequence of bricks to tap in order to get into Diagon. But, once again, I'll use my Suspencion of Disbelief, Ultra Strength (I need more then Extra Strength). Now what? How are you going to find something that will connect you to the person you're after, in a major wizarding shopping center? But I'll use my SOD again (by now, I'm using a version that's over 9000!!!!11!!).

Now how do you do this before a HP wizard uses a tracking spell, finds you, and say, AK's you?

Moving on.

Hogsmeade. It's in Scotland. Do we know where? But say a DV wizard knows. And say, despite the fact that it's a wizarding town, there are no wards. Once again, how do you find something to connect you to one person, before he or she finds and does horrible things to you (and then to your corpse)?

Platform 9 3/4. Why is a DV wizard in King's Cross? Why does he know to look between platforms 9 and 10? Can he even enter Platform 9 3/4? I mean, some muggle would have entered Platform 9 3/4, and learned about the wizarding world if any one can enter. But say they can. If just anyone can enter, there are probably some wizards there to erase memories. Why don't they obliviate him or her? I mean, most DV wizards dress like muggles. Why aren't they wipping his mind? I suppose Wardens don't dress like muggles, but they do weaar silver cloaks. Not exactly subtle. Why isn't anybody asking questions about this guy in silver?

 

Also, what's with the assumption that Thaumaturgy will go straight through concealment/defensive HP enchantments? Because Dresden magic is 'stronger?'

 

My invisible friends can beat up your invisible friends.

 

@Nefar: Because Thaumaturgy is like Apparating a spell directly into the Wizard's body, for example a Full Body Bind. Or causing extreme bad luck like falling roof shingles in Diagon Alley.

As for everyone going the 'lulz i apaarte an AKzz itt' route besides the limitations of Apaaration (seriously if you can ward against entrance from the Nevernever teleportation can't be that hard to stop) Avada Kedavra takes hate enough hate to rip the life form someone. Is Random Wand Wizard A going to hate True Wizard B enough to do this in their random match up? I think not.

 

Avada Kedavra doesn't take personal hatred to cast, otherwise Wormtail could never have killed Cedric... Actually, it's never said it needs hatred to cast. That's the Cruciatus curse...

 

Ok. You do know that the one thing we know absolutely about HP protection enchantments is that it is possible to stop instantaneous-effect magics like Apparation from occuring in an area.

So all the Aurors that were given authorization to use the Unforgivable Curses during Voldemort's first rise had an intimate hatred of every single Death Eater? How would that even work if DE's wear masks? Its much more likely that the 'hatred' needed for the Killing Curse is a sort of 'I really want this person dead' hatred, the kind that exists between opposite sides of a war.

And yes, Dresdenverse could certainly defend areas against Apparation/Portkeys. I believe, however, that it was understood combat in relatively neutral circumstances were being discussed when people made the Apparate-around-Dresdenverse-wizard comments.

Edit:

Really? Huh - I guess fanon has influenced me more than I thought.

 

Actually, we've only seen, like, what? Three Thaumaturgy spells. That Satellite brought down was probably one. The Heart Curse. And The Loup Garou thing. We have know idea how hard or easy it is to stop one. But that's not really important.

What is important is this. Harry Dresden himself has said that wizards can do all sorts of things with Thaumaturgy. So why don't Wizards kick everyone's ass in the DV? Because Thaumaturgy has one major weakness. It takes time and power. Yes, Shadowman made peoples hearts explode. When he had a lightning storm to back him up, a man and woman creating lust energy, and a ritual. Yes, Harry bound the Loup Garou. After how long exactly? I can't remember, but it took more time then it takes to cast an AK. We don't know what Eb did.

The point is, Thaumaturgy takes time. And power. The power part usually doesn't matter, as you can take as long as you want with Thaumaturgy. Even years. Feed it some power one day, and some more the next.

It's not really something that can be done on the fly.

Sure, if we give the DV wizard a week or a month, he'll take down a HP wizard. But I demand to know what the HP wizard was doing when he should be out killing the DV wizard.

Moving on.

I don't remember anyone warding people from entering through the Nevernever. Book and page number please. But even if they can, wards take time to put up (presumming they can even put up wards against Apparition, which if not sure if I buy). Sure, Harry's wards are strong, but he's been working on them for years. Also, how the hell does a DV wizard even know about apparition?

Once again, what was the HP wizard doing during these days (weeks, or even months) the DV wizard took to put up wardswhile he should be killing the DV wizards.

AK apparently doesn't take personal hate, if it even takes hate at all.

P.S. This True Wizard, Wand Wizard bullshit is beginning to get stupid.

 

Yes. They transfigure desks into pigs. That's about as 'true' as you can get. It is a fine way of distinguishing them in the story, but outside it becomes tiresome fast.

 

We've seen tons of thaumaturgy being done throughout the series: Dresden's seeking spells may not be the biggest ones, but they still use the same principles as things like the entropy curse. Adding in that the entropy curse had to seek out its target, and could be traced back as it crossed over some of Harry's wards says to me that it isn't 'like apparating a spell into a Wizard's body'.

 

Ah, the tracking spells. Forgot about them.

As for the Entropy curse, it was a ritual. It may count as Thaumaturgy, but, in that case, Harry took the spell, which was aimed at Inari, and shoved it onto that Black Court vampire. Which, I think, would count as defending against Thaumaturgy.

Edit: I looked it up, and I'm pretty sure its Thaumaturgy now. My point about defending against it stands.

 

That was merely redirecting it to another target, as he didn't have the power or the wards set up to completely negate it. If he didn't have a spare black court vampire to kill he would have simply used up a lot of energy forcing it through his body and back out into the open. Adding on to that, it took a tremendous force of will to do so and he was in complete and utter agony for the duration.

So yes, it is possible to defend against thaumaturgy, but it seems very difficult to do so and takes someone of Dresden's force of will to actually succeed in it.

Also, would the enthralment curse Justin DuMorne used on Harry count as thaumaturgy? It seems to follow the same principles as other curses, and I believe that Justin did have Harry's Name to be able to target him...

 

I think what Justin did to Elaine and tried to do to Harry was similar to what Molly did to her crack-whore friend and boytoy. And, while I don't know exactly what she did, I do have this.

http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/news/archives/2007/07/post_1.php

This is Canon by the way.

Back to Thaumaturgy. That still doesn't change the time requirement, or the fact that a DV wizard would be long dead by the time he could use a Thaumaturgy spell.

 

True, though if we assume that wards that block tracking spells in the Dresden world would block HP spells too, the Dresden wizard would have a clear advantage as all they would need would be the Name (not so easy to get) or a piece of the HP wizard to use in a thaumaturgic spell.