A problem for a lot of HP crossovers is that HP magic overpowers the native powers of the new universe. One solution to this is somehow limiting Harry's set of abilities. So, three questions:

1. How would you limit Harry's set of abilities when he is crossed over to another universe?

To me, the two most obvious ways to limit abilities are:

a) No wand

b) Age

2. What abilities would you have him keep?

With A (no wand) this limits Harry's abilities significantly while still potentially (depending on your Harry's backstory) giving him access to: legilimency, occlumency, flight, animagus transformation, potions. On top of this you can give him some small amount of wandless magic, though I find when people do this they rapidly get "wandless magic mission creep" where they allow more and more complex spells to be done wandlessly.

Another variation is to allow apparition without a wand (which seems to be possible but unusual), which if you like you could make more limited than wanded apparition. But in a lot of universes apparition would be pretty broken (looking at you, LotR).

With B (age) you can significantly limit the arsenal of magic Harry has access to. For example, post-GoF Harry has access to enough magic to make him special - the shield charm, some offensive spells, a decent amount of transfiguration - but at the same time is incapable of much of HP magic's most powerful feats, especially those concerning the mind and rapid travel (though he does know the incantation to the imperius, so could potentially get that to work in time).

3. What crossover universe works well with that set of abilities?

By "works well" I generally mean "The abilities are sufficient to make Harry special enough to make a meaningful contribution to the plotline of that universe, but not so special as to destroy conflict".

But "works well" can also mean "fits in with the visual themes of that universe". In many universes where magic is generally subtle, HP magic can feel a bit too overt.

I think His Dark Materials would work well with Harry limited to animagus (great interaction with daemons), legilimency maybe flight.

Post-GoF Harry (with wand) would work nicely in Game of Thrones. Another great GoT ability set would be just giving him legilimency and apparition (which are the only two magics we could theoretically expect Harry to be able to cast wandlessly at the end of DH, so maybe a post-DH Harry). Such an ability set would be a huge advantage, but at the same time Harry would have to be very careful as he would not have any directly combat-relevant abilities to keep him safe (beyond general wizarding resilience to harm).

Relevant previous thread on magical progression in crossovers.

 

In a lot of fantasy world you expand on the unseen canon magic. For example in one HP/LotR fic I read they made it that Sauron had a crude understanding of Harry's magic and could counter it. He could - if he knew where Harry was - make apparating very dangerous. I think the ring itself made Harry's magic difficult to work with as well in the story. Its been a while since i picked up the story.

 

As I mentioned in the Wand/No Wand thread, I see wizards without wands as basically cripples and not real wizards.

Furthermore, I am seeing absolutely no problems with HP wizards being dominant and OP. I think it's part of their charm that their magic is so 'broken'.

However, if having them limited is truly required, then I guess I'd go with the Age option. I'm thinking Harry between GoF and OotP would work perfectly for crossovers.

 

I only really see the problem of the HP magic overpowering other magics when either the author just does a bad job of translating the worlds, or for some reason the only conflict is martial. As Xandrel mentioned, it can be fun for the HP magic to overpower the native magics at times.

Game of Thrones has magical elements that can give a fully trained Harry pause, if written well, but full power Harry vs the Mountain isn't dramatic. I envision Harry apparating into Joffrey's throne room, pointing at him and shouting, "You are not worthy! Another king must Rule!" and apparating away after a cutting curse to the throat. Funny, but not engaging.

But what would a wizard do in Westeros? If he could kill anyone, who would he kill and why? Who would he let live and be screwed by it? It's a different level or tension, and one that would be much harder to write. Does Littlefinger trick him into transporting Sansa to the Vale and leaving her there? Why weren't all the kings during the middle ages in earth, wizards? The author could examine Harry's morality by running around Westeros. Does Bloodraven then Bran fuck with his surroundings and mind. Or the glass candle people (Quaith)? Harry wants to protect people, not to rule, so what is his motivation? Does he try to be King to 'improve' the world, or does he create a Diagon alley for himself, coming out every couple decades for some sex?

I understand the desire to have Harry's mortality actually be in question, and limiting his abilities through age or no wand could work very well and be interesting, but either can fail. If you truly have a wandless Harry, then he's basically a muggle. He's never shown an aptitude for wandless magic so you have to power boost him some way, which has a high probability of feeling contrived. It works fine in "The Black Prince" because of the great character interactions. But that story, IMO, would not suffer much if Harry had no magic until he found a wand. The age thing could be more interesting, because he would know about what a wand could do, but not really know how to do it. He would be treated as a child, and a potential pawn and object from anyone who found out of his abilities. He can be very dangerous, especially in a limited way (1x1) but if he doesn't know how to apparate, etc... he could fast become a leper or dead. The age thing also lets him interact on a different level with a different character set. A 13 - 15 year old Harry would be an adolescent and be treated as such by the adults, but as a peer or close peer by the children in the story. An adult Harry would be seen differently.

Tarue started by saying the problem with certain stories is the power imbalance. I think it's more likely that the aurhors are just bad. They don't really understand or want tension that would be cause by normalized power levels and just want super indy Harry.

 

Harry Potter in Star Wars tends to usually work, as Harry Potter magic is not more powerful than the force, but just a different application.

 

This, so much this.

 

You could change how it interacts with other systems of magic - for example, make it so that it "counts" as magic for settings like White Wolf, so that Countermagic could effect spells?

 

Taking away a wand is such a cheap, unimaginative way of tweaking power levels. If you understand both universes well enough, it's possible to use the world itself to limit what a wizard can and can't do.

For instance, on the Discworld there is an actual anthropomorphic being called Death who micromanages the passing of everything on the...uhhhhh...wait, can you call the Disc a planet? If I were writing an HP/Discworld crossover Avada Kedavra would most definitely not be a reliable instakill (seeing as it seems to work by banishing the soul directly from the body and into the afterlife). Especially since Death has been known to go on holiday, or hold out on taking away souls whose time is up. On the Disc magic is an extremely dangerous force that's akin to radioactivity; I conceivably could have the unsuspecting HP wizard blow themselves to kingdom come because their completely innocuous spell messes with the thaumaturgical field. And of course there is the overwhelming force of sheer narrativium.

...shit, I want to write an HP/Discworld crossover now.

 

I've always felt the complete opposite - that altering the rules of the worlds is cheating and inevitably leads to one or both of them feeling handicapped to favour the other. Plus, altering the canonical HP magic system is blasphemy.

When I read a crossover I want to see each universe represented faithfully. Harry Potter in the Dresdenverse should have full access to all his powers as they are in HP. And similarly Dresden in the HP universe should have access to all his powers as they are in the Dresden universe. If you don't do this then your crossover fails to answer the primary question asked by crossovers: "how would the existence of X change Y?"

Within those constraints, therefore, taking away a character's wand is probably the best way to maintain the rules of the world but limit a character's abilities.

 

Nothing in my example alters the rules of the worlds. The whole point is that all beings in a universe - including your newly introduced crossed-over individual(s) - have to obey its rules.

On the Disc [wizard] magic that is not carefully controlled will blow up in your face, and the faces of everything for miles around. There's a reason wizards don't fight each other anymore. I see no reason why an HP wizard should be exempt from the Disc's thaumaturgical effects, the same way the increased gravity would crush his bones if he was thrown into Jupiter or the noxious atmosphere would asphyxiate him if he took an unscheduled trip to Venus. The same way a Discworld wizard would be free to use magic without causing a minor nuclear disaster or attracting some sort of eldritch abomination if he was dropped into the HP world, because he no longer has to deal with shit like morphogenic fields or the Theory of Thaumic Imponderability.

(Also technically a Discworld wizard created E̶a̶r̶t̶h̶ Roundworld by splitting the thaum, which is like an atom, but also a unit of magical energy, and is made up of up, down, sideways, sex appeal and peppermint, though Roundworld doesn't even have any gods or narrativium so maybe we're missing the sex appeal, and you probably shouldn't think about it too much because it's not supposed to make any real sense)

You ain't on your homeworld anymore, you can't expect everything to work the exact same way for you. Especially when said world has explicit obstacles hindering you from doing what you normally can.

 

Potions!Harry is the only idea I can't support, because it's way too much of a stretch to believe that flobberworms and billywigs and such exist in his new universe. Unless he conveniently has boatloads of potions ingredients on his person all the time, in which case more power to him. As for less "available" magic, instead of cores just have your friendly neighborhood Cthulhu show up when you mess with the fabric of reality too much (in the Avatar universe, for instance, he could attract a powerful dark spirit).

I did have this paracosm when I was younger where Hermione had to translate spells into Quenya because Latin didn't exist in Middle Earth and so its words had no power there, though Point Me worked because I cheated and had English be equivalent to Westron. Eventually she recreated Avada Kedavra with the Black Speech. (I just wanted to geek out over languages okay)