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Complete Dagger and Rose by Perspicacity - M (Harry/Fleur - Complete)

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by Vates, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. Xanatos

    Xanatos Professor

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    Definate 5/5, one of the few fanfics made that really grabs and holds your attention.
     
  2. back2front

    back2front Guest

    great story, hope u write a sequel.
     
  3. JWH

    JWH Unspeakable

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    Lulz. Though I second the "moar plz" motion.

    Great story, Pers. I haven't re-read it in a while, but I remember enough to give it 5 stars. Even the rape scene didn't bother me so much :D .
     
  4. Bikiluf

    Bikiluf Seventh Year

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    This story screams for a sequel. It just looks like it's incomplete, we still don't know what happenend to Harry, Fleur and Voldemort. I mean if we don't have any info on what's left to say than what kind of open ending is that? It's pretty damn open if you catch my drift. So open in fact that it needs another couple of chapters to clarify a bunch of stuff. Like what happened to the adoring fan from the first task and wether Harry will actually complete his training or die. I don't know if it's because I lack the ability to read between the lines but I really hate open endings. Can't really say this fic is complete but it's a great story anyway.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  5. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Read it. Loved it. Though I have to wonder Pers, whatever happened to the little boy who only had his pride?
     
  6. sincostan

    sincostan High Inquisitor

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    I can't get over the present tense in the first chapters. Will come back to it when I do. =(

    It's starting to hook me. Technical quality of the writing is 3.5; there's no excuse for present tense. The English is a little worn in some places. Is Pers a non-native speaker?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  7. Anya

    Anya Harley Quinn DLP Supporter

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    It wasn't bad, but definitely not my kind of story. I'm going to give it a 4/5.
     
  8. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    My only problem with it was that I liked it better before the DLP-inspired changes that Perspicacity made to it in the WBA (particularly with the rape thing).
     
  9. Shadowglen

    Shadowglen First Year

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    I do not like this story.

    The first thing that bothers me is the writing style. While the technicals are excellent, it is told using the present tense and trying to read something written in the present is akin to nails on a chalkboard for the eyes.
    <o></o>
    Secondly, the characterizations are a big turn off. Things start off ok but barely even a third the way into the first chapter, where Harry begins his apprenticeship, it starts to go downhill. Dumbledore seems excessively harsh and judgmental, blatantly criticizing Harry for his course selection. His immediate quizzing and expectation of answers is more reminiscent of the cannon Snape than Albus Dumbledore. Even if I agree with the sentiments expressed, they were not presented in a way that makes the character believable. Ron's jealousy is well documented in cannon and parodied in fanfiction, but I find this fic's manifestation, as with many others, is so over the top to be outside the character model. Hermione is far too pushy, Sirius far too serious, and Harry is just plain bipolar. Too many characters spend too much time speechless and not enough act like qualified witches and wizards, let alone the cream of the crop that would naturally associate with such esteemed figures as we are led to believe the Headmaster is.

    Thirdly, the scene changes, meaning scenes without Harry in them, are too vague and run together. Mystery and suspense are excellent additions to a fic that few can muster correctly. This fic is not one of those few. A scene with mysterious villains should make the reader wonder who they are and what they are up to, not simply asking themselves "What the fuck?" I also find it hard to believe that said bad guys could get wind of the substance of a secret conversation between Harry and Dumbledore and not figure out that it was Harry and Dumbledore. They used each other's names often enough.

    All in all, this story is at best a 3/5, but I would have to say a 2/5 is more appropriate.

    Edited Twice: Removal of strange symbols and smileys that I did not put in the post. Strange...
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  10. sincostan

    sincostan High Inquisitor

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    The random hating on Ginny and Molly with Dumbledore's rumination is weird. The romance itself is iffy, though congrats on writing it into the plot. It's a good story, but that doesn't make up for the present tense. I'm surprised everyone's going on about it so.

    How does Dumbledore fuck up so badly with Moody knowing he's a fake?
     
  11. psihary

    psihary Groundskeeper

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    I second that. You should have kept the original scene because it did serve its purpose and send the right message.
     
  12. sincostan

    sincostan High Inquisitor

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    What was it before?
     
  13. Nuhuh

    Nuhuh Dastardly Shadow Admin Retired Staff

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    The rape scene is obviously controversial. I read the whole story much after everyone else had on DLP and missed the discussions on it. From what I could tell, they (the discussions) were long and painful.

    Might be best to rate the story for what is linked here, before thread gets derailed.

    Otherwise there is always the thread in Work by Author to re-take-up that argument.

    Edit: Here is the thread link for all those who will be asking "but what rape thing?" etc., or want to take up the for/against Fleur assault argument: Work By Author thread of Dagger and Rose
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  14. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity Destroyer of Worlds ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    sincostan: This may be the first time I've been accused of this. You have company in detesting present tense narrative--Vash and Shezza each read a chapter and pronounced the novel unreadable. (Vash had other reasons to hate it too, if I recall).

    As I said when I started posting to WbA, there's nothing inherently wrong with present tense for a story. Several noteworthy novels have been written in present tense: Atwood's Cat's Eye, Palahniuk's Fight Club, Charlie Stross's Accelerando, to name a few. I won't get into pros and cons of the form here, since it's been discussed in the thread nuhuh linked.

    The Weasley "bashing" scene while Dumbledore watched the third task was a heavy-handed reveal of what had been hinted at throughout. I probably would do the scene differently if I were to write it today. It was shockingly blunt.

    Shadowglen: Ron was under Crouch's Imperius throughout the story; a scene was added to the first chapter to make this explicit. Dumbledore was intentionally written differently from his canon self in this AU. His affable demeanor was an act, something telegraphed from the beginning with his ruminations on manipulating Harry into apprenticeship.
     
  15. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The present tense grates at first, but I think you just acclimatise to it after a bit and then stop noticing it. Like jbern's Jungle.
     
  16. sincostan

    sincostan High Inquisitor

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    That's true, my nagging feeling just went away when reading Bungle and Fight Club. I think I mean "justification" rather than "excuse."

    In Fight Club we have an unreliable narrator with the emphasis being placed on his point of view. This is heavily tied into the plot.

    Bungle, with its in medias res right in the first chapter, makes you feel like you're in the action. It's got a swashbuckling feel throughout the whole story. Harry fights and fucks and fights some more.

    I didn't get that reason with D&R and found it detracted as a result. I will read through the wba to see how the story evolved and the kind of feedback you got.

    By the way, even though I didn't like the writing so much, I think it's excellent in your other stories, and anyways this one had quite a few other positives to balance it out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  17. Shadowglen

    Shadowglen First Year

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    I suppose I could explain further, but first I must admit that I did not get farther than chapter 3.
    <o></o>
    Ron being under an imperious would clear up not just his actions but the scene beforehand where he is with Percy. I found that scene to be a bothersome non sequitur and thus put it out mind after briefly wondering as to its point. See my earlier comment about mysterious villains.
    <o></o>
    That said, I still hold my objections to the change in Dumbledore’s personality. Your plot point does make sense, but I find that it happened too suddenly. At the same time I believe that Harry would have not accepted it so meekly. He is not meeting Dumbledore for the first time like he was Snape at the beginning of first year. He has a history with the Headmaster that would leave him to be hurt more by his actions than that of someone who has always been antagonistic. I had some hope when, at first, you described Harry as being defensive, but such hope died over the next chapter. I would have expected Harry to become angered and forceful as he did at the beginning of cannon fifth year. I realize that in your story the Headmaster probably sent Harry to the Dursley’s to mold him into a meek and moldable persona, but it must have failed, otherwise Harry would not have been able to break free eventually. I find the dichotomy unbalancing and detrimental to this fic’s storyline. I hope this helps you to understand my position.
    <o></o>
    Additionally, I would like to point out that JBern’s story “Bungle in the Jungle” is indeed written in the present. However said story is also written in the second person perspective, which lends it a different feel in which the present tense makes sense and adds to the story, rather than distracting and ultimately detracting from it.

    EDIT: What the hell is with these goddamned smiley's? Is it an adverse consequence of copying and pasting from MS Word?
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
  18. jjack1003

    jjack1003 Second Year

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    i read this story some time last year, and I was really hoping that the author would write a sequel, harry/fleur is definitely my favorite pairing, but unfortunately there arent many of those around.
    definitely a 4.5/5
     
  19. XxEnvyxX

    XxEnvyxX Groundskeeper

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    I've read this story and I really liked it.
    At first it was a bit strange,
    but it soon became a nice flowing story.
    I'm hoping the author will write a sequel at one point or another.
    4.5/5
     
  20. Freelancer

    Freelancer Fourth Year

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    I think Pers already start that, but he said he will only start posting them in WBA after he finished the whole story.
     
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