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DC Cinematic Universe(s) General Thread

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by Arthellion, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Fatality

    Fatality Order Member

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    I’m interested to hear this said, because everything I read across the the comic book subreddits yesterday suggested his comic book runs were at best divisive and at worst terrible. Common complaints seemed to be that in his Black Panther and Captain America series, he made the titular characters into side characters in their own comics. I definitely think Superman needs some time to shine on his own after his last two cinematic outings so I’m not exactly thrilled to hear that.

    I also read that this Coates guy called 9/11 responders “menaces of nature” in his book so honestly he can get fucked, why is WB hiring people like that?

    Race is also apparently a consistently common theme amongst his work, so black Superman would track with that. I’m not usually one to get up in arms about stuff like this, but I’d be a lot more chill with a potential Calvin Ellis movie if we’d actually had some good Clark Kent movies in recent history. Like go ahead if you want to do Miles Morales, we’ve seen plenty of Peter Parker at this point, but c’mon at least give the OG superhero a proper go before you trash him for a replacement character.

    I also feel like black Superman loses a little of the symbolism of the character, keeping in mind his origins. He was an Übermensch figure (both of the original Nietzschean variety and the racial Nazi Aryan kind) created by Jewish men in 1938, and he categorically rejected every facet of the ideology of the Nazi party. I think having positive white aspirational figures like that can be important for fighting racism, and if you look at the history of the Superman radio show and the work it did fighting the KKK there is evidence for that.

    Maybe there’s an interesting twist on that Übermensch figure that can be done with a black actor in the role, but I’m not sure I have that much faith in DC and Coate’s writing abilities. Plus looking at everything that happened on Jan 6th sure makes me feel like the world could use another “(Clark Kent) Superman fights the KKK.”

    I should add I think inclusion of POC into comic book movies is absolutely a good thing, and you don’t have to look further than the reception of Black Panther to see that. I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t use one of their existing black characters to achieve this goal though - like Khan said with Icon, or John Stewart/Green Lantern, Kaldur/Aquaboy, J’onn Jonzz/Martian Manhunter (kind of), John Henry Irons/Steel or Victor Stone/Cyborg.

    Oh wait, WB did already try Cyborg and they can’t use him again because he’s too controversial now and the actor hates them... because they were racist towards him apparently? Now that actor is tweeting about black Superman, seemingly as criticism? I’m sure this Superman reboot will go great with these guys running things. Not going to even touch the whole JJ “Rise of Skywalker” Abrams aspect of things. Other than to ask - wasn’t he also dealing with his own racism accusations recently about Finn’s downsized role in the SW sequel trilogy and pandering to the Chinese audience, or was that mostly focused on Disney and Ryan Johnson?

    Edit: Shinysavage - I believe that the black Superman casting was from the Hollywood Reporter. Substantiating evidence largely comes from the fact that it’s being called a reboot without Cavill attached, Coates’ writing history as mentioned being heavily centred on African American themes, and this quote from him: “I look forward to meaningfully adding to the legacy of America's most iconic mythic hero."
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  2. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    Into the Spide-Verse was first, at least for superheroes in the cinema.

    If I was to do it, I would have Mister Mxy as the villain. Not only he's more powerful than Superman or dozens of them, but he basically wants to be entertained giving an excuse to pretty much any cool actions scene that normally would need to have some short of setup.

    He could even lean on the fourth wall saying that he's making the whole thing for people back in the higher dimensions.

    I would have Henry Cavill MoS Superman or normal Superman and then bunch of Marvel actors as other, more troubled Supermen. Hugh Jackman as older and jaded Superman, similar to Kingdom Come, who started killing villains or at least stopped trying to not kill them when fighting. Michael B. Jordan as Calvin Ellis President Superman who is actually pretty racists to humans. Hayley Atwell as Laurel Kent female Superman from 1940s tried of all sexism that it includes. Tom Holland as Superboy Prime from real world who is actually Spider-Man fan though he has nothing against Superman, he would become Evil Superman that the rest would need to stop.
     
  3. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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  4. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    So I'm done with the the Snyder Cut. And it's definitely better than the OG. The extra worldbuilding and character backstory scenes really help to build stakes, make you care more about Aquaman, flash, and cyborg, and increase the threat factor of Steppenwolf.

    Is it a good movie though?

    Meh. Almost. Not quite. It drags quite a bit, and you can see why many of the extra scenes were cut from the original vision.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  5. Viewtiful

    Viewtiful Groundskeeper

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    Not sure how strict we're being on spoilers, but I'll err on the side of caution because I don't actually know what's different from the original cut.

    I never watched the original Justice, but I actually liked the Snyder Cut a little more than I expected. Steppenwolf is a pretty boring villain (though there's something actually sympathetic about him, with how desperate he seems for Darkseid's approval), the film thinks its hugely important with all of the dramatic music and too-long shots, and I think about 80% of the action was in slow motion, but there was more to like than a lot of other DC movies. It also completely wastes Amy Adams/Lois Lane, despite talking up how important she is multiple times.

    I liked Cyborg and Flash, the relationships both characters had with their characters felt genuinely compelling (though it mostly makes me think that solo movies for both of them would have been better introductions), and there's something undeniably entertaining about seeing Superman just absolutely body someone like he does to Steppenwolf at the end. I also liked the faith Bruce has in Clark. That dynamic feels completely divorced from Batman Vs. Superman, but that's an absolutely awful movie, so it's hard to care.

    I was expecting a complete trainwreck, but it was mostly just kind of dull. Like a 5/10, which isn't bad by DC standards.
     
  6. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Wife and I loved it.

    was it a perfect movie? No

    was it DCs marvel? No.

    but it was a good movie with more character development and excellent action.

    I’d put the quality at Man of Steel level. Definitely better than WW84/Batman v Superman/JL17.

    The best analogy I would give is fellowship of the ring but instead of walking it’s slow mo.
     
  7. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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  8. Redsayn

    Redsayn Fourth Year

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    After that, I'm really looking forward to the Cyborg movie (if it's still being made). He was hands down my favourite character, and was so much better than in the 2017 version.
     
  9. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It is better than the 2017 release but 97%? That's idiots voting.
     
  10. Fatality

    Fatality Order Member

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    Agreed, he felt like the main character in this version and the 2017 JL absolutely made a mistake cutting as much of him as it did. I believe Snyder has called Cyborg “the heart and soul” of his version.

    Unfortunately at this point a Cyborg movie looks unlikely. Not sure if you’re aware of the controversy between the studio and the actor (google Ray Fisher, I’m sure a lot of articles will come up about it) but he’s said he won’t work with the current president of DC film production Walter Hamada. Cyborg was also apparently supposed to be in the Flash movie but was cut, and most studios don’t make a habit of hiring those who criticise them publicly (justifiably or not) plus I think a recast would be pretty controversial at this point.
     
  11. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Yeah, it’s an overall pretty decent movie as long as Snyder’s stylistic touches like sometimes ridiculous amounts of slo-mo don’t bother you too much, but it’s not amazing or anything. It’s a coherent, pretty decent movie with a really long runtime because of Snyder’s style and the need to properly introduce three brand new characters.
     
  12. Churchey

    Churchey Supreme Mugwump

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    4 hours was just too long, and it speaks to the overly ambitious nature of the project. They're trying to set up their own multiverse in 2 movies and it's just so poorly executed. Ironman/Thor/Captain America all stood on their own with minute references to the larger universe. The Synder cut does okay at trying to accomplish that goal, but it's still pretty weak. If anything, it reminds me how astoundingly bad JL17 was. This version at least lets the team fail before running to resurrect superman. Trying to give every hero their 'moment' is much harder with Superman in the picture, but Barry running to turn back time was a great scene.

    Darkside and the greater threat just lacked the gravitas of Thanos, partially because we see him losing to zeus/ares in the first act and partially because the cgi just didn't quite hit the mark. Also they keep trying for the serious tone without adapting the source enough or doing the work of setting up. The infinity stones and the threat of their power took like 5 movies to set up, compared to anti-life which just seems so much more campy.

    It's fine, but I prefer almost any marvel movie to it.
     
  13. aAlouda

    aAlouda Groundskeeper

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    Apparently the Snyder Cut is not canon to the DCEU. So if there is a sequel to Justice League, it will be to the Theatrical Cut.
    https://deadline.com/2021/03/zack-s...fisher-cyborg-joss-whedon-hbo-max-1234716917/
     
  14. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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  15. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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  16. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Considering pretty much the biggest problems with the entire DCEU has been the very clear lack of any sort of plan/vision in favor of desperate knee-jerk reactions to how the last film was received ... yeah, they could easily decide to make the Snyder Cut canon. Granted, it's unlikely to make a difference if the real problems in the DCEU aren't fixed.
     
  17. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I loved the Snyder cut.

    I do not love his storyboarded plans for Justice League 2 & 3.
     
  18. Mister Ferro

    Mister Ferro High Inquisitor

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    What were his plans?
     
  19. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I’ve read several ideas he was spitballing. All of them pretty much included Superman falling to Anti Life Equation.


    One had Bruce and Lois in a relationship with a son in the knightmare verse.
     
  20. Arthellion

    Arthellion Lord of the Banned ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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