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Complete Demon’s Feign, Merlin’s Pain by Nuhuh - M - Dresden Files

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by Nuhuh, Apr 1, 2007.

  1. Joschneide

    Joschneide Groundskeeper

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    I love the story. You and Shezza both are making me want to read the Dresden Files. I think your style between characters is interesting.

    However, I have a few complaints, ones that make even a good story hard to read.

    1) The perspective changes. You're writing in first person and changing perspectives. If this were a 3rd person omniscient story, the perspective switch wouldn't be a big deal to me. But the use of I to describe three different characters feels like laziness on your part to me (I find 3rd person omniscient to be longer to write and harder to make flow for the writer but overall more rewarding for the reader). If it's not laziness then maybe it's the inability to write 3rd person omniscient properly. Or maybe you just like it your way. But the switches come off as disjointed and iffy at times, seemingly only used when you're ready to eliminate a person from a scene.

    2) Harry Potter is kind of badly written. My perusing of the first few chapters led me to believe this would be a dark Harry, one that cared little for anything. But then you slap a lot of moral ambiguity into his characterization which at times distracts from what I think you're trying to show. You make him so inconsistent that at times I stop reading for a bit just to take a break from him. I like your characterization(s) of him. I just wish you'd stick to it and not make him flip flop so much.



    Overall as of now I'd give it a 3.5 out of 5 as a HP/Dresden x-over. I have a feeling if I knew more about Dresden (I like your characterization of Charity better than Shezza, Dresden is about equal, and I sway to your side on Michael a bit, giving me the only real basis for judgement on that) I'd give it a four due to the perspective. If somehow the perspective changes didn't seem so disjointed, and from a writing standpoint, wrong, I could easily see this moving even higher.


    EDIT: While reading your first page of reviews, I saw that this is your first attempt at first person. I'll try to give some of your other work a shot just to get a feel for your third person writing to give an honest report on the differences and what upon which I think can be improved.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2008
  2. Cathal

    Cathal Sir Nils' Right Hand

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    I've made till the middle of chapter 7 but think it's enough to give an opinion.

    First of, sorry Nuhuh, but I just couldn't help compairing yours and Butcher's writing. And honestly, it's just too much of a gap. After the first chapter (which wasn't all that well paced) I wanted to give it either 2.5/5 or 3/5. It doesn't mean that your writing's bad but you have to do much better when you write a Dresden Files fic. But then chapter two completely changed my opinion. Congrats, dude, in my bookmarks your story is marked as "The best insane!Harry out there." HP is the jewel of this fic.
    So I give you 4/5. It's not 5/5 only because Butcher is so good. Not your fault, friend. :)

    P.S. Oh, is it me, or is Dresden noticeably OOC?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  3. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Joschneide, about Harry's character... he's slightly insane. I'm sure you probably noticed, but I thought I'd point that out anyway. In my opinion, that goes a long way towards explaining his erratic character, and it's one of the things I like most about the story.
     
  4. Mors

    Mors Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    The first person present tense narration is indeed a bitch to handle. The thought processes nuhuh shows in realtime have to mix all of what's happening outside of Harry Potter's head, the zanier stuff happening inside, and Harry's own emotions and reactions to both.

    I see in the story that Harry's reactions are sometimes shown rather than told from the inside, and he often goes off along weird tangents. It's a little bit wooden, at times. But that has simply become nuhuh's Harry for me. It's not your usual first-person voice, but Harry isn't the usual person here.
    It's kinda unique. Like Ruskbyte's Azkaban-Harry, insane but classily so.

    Dresden, though... I dunno. I've never been as much interested in him as I'm in Potter. I always skim through those sections. :p

    So... don't change Potter's voice much, nuhuh, whatever you do. I like this one. Feel free to do whatever you want with Dresden.
     
  5. Joschneide

    Joschneide Groundskeeper

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    Using slightly insane for Harry going from an immoral bastard, ready to use anyone, to the Harry we all know and love who has a "saving people" thing would just be a writer's cop-out.

    Yes, this Harry's subconscious relates things to him (sometimes even warning him) through mainly his dead friends. Yes, his behavior is erratic.

    But something like morals changing? Harry's behavior has shown nothing to indicate this would occur. If there was some indication of this, or his morals and/or overall attitude towards people changed more often then I would agree about insanity being the case.


    Like I said, I don't think Harry's badly written, I just think this story is offering two versions of Harry, both about whom I enjoy reading. But two nonetheless.
     
  6. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    If you mean Harry killing those Warlocks at the beginning, it was because they sacrificed those children. In this story, Harry seems to really like kids (God knows why), and got really upset that they'd been killed.
    The same happened when the Blackstaff attacked Murphy. He thought she was his mother, and was angry at the Blackstaff, thinking that someone was trying to take her from him again. Those are the only examples of him being particularly immoral that I can think of. The rest of the time, he's been his crazy, mostly harmless, self.
     
  7. Nuhuh

    Nuhuh Dastardly Shadow Admin Retired Staff

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    I think I was very subtle or not clear enough about where that change occurred. Oddly enough before you posted this I had already written a part of the next chapter where it explains what happened to him. Thanks for picking up on it, not a lot of people noticed it.

    However, Harry wasn't entirely immoral to begin with, just in an extreme "me against them" kind of state of mind. Even when he was imprisoned in the Ministry he was concerned about Tonks and Ginny; albeit he wanted them to follow him without question. And when he was summoned into Dresden world, he wasn't too hot about the idea of child sacrifices, at the same time torturing and killing without concern the warlocks.

    At any rate. Next chapter has a specific scene which brings Harry back to an even keel (A mad keel though it is). He has a sense of right and wrong. For example he will still think teaching Molly is the right thing, even if after his lesson he goes out and skins a Warden of the White Council.
     
  8. Joschneide

    Joschneide Groundskeeper

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    It was the whole willingness to use the last vestiges of his friends that made me consider him immoral. Killing warlocks? Pfft, far as I'm concerned, they deserve it.

    I'm glad his state of mind is going to be addressed though, it's one of few things really hindering its rating (at least for me).
     
  9. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    I misunderstood you then. Sorry.
    I suppose you could look at what he told Tonks and Ginny as immoral, but on the other hand, you could argue that he was trying to ensure their survival
    .
    Only nuhuh truly knows...o_O
     
  10. Robo Jesus

    Robo Jesus High Inquisitor

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    It would help if I actually knew what in the hell that Dresden-verse spell was supposed to do.

    Actually, now I have to ask. Is there a listing of Dresden-verse spells that explains what they do around anywhere at all?
     
  11. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

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    Shezza was compiling a list of Dresden spells for his story, it's in the fanfiction discussion board somewhere. Though I doubt it has what you're specifically seeking.
     
  12. Mors

    Mors Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    As far as I remember, wizards in Dresdenverse do not actually need specific words for casting spells. They just take the energy from around them and redirect it to blow shit up. The fancy words used are kinda like interfaces between the wizard's mind and the energy, so that the mind isn't damaged by all that power. The more obscure (not natural to the wizard) language used for the spells, the better. I remember a scene when Dresden cast a spell on Tera(?) without using fancy words. Also there are many descriptions of high-power spells (for example, Dresden calling up the ghosts at Bianca's place after Susan got kidnapped) where he doesn't use words at all.


    I think what words you use for a specific spell is definitely up to you, in Dresdenverse. An American wizard may use Spanish spells because the language isn't native to him but a Spanish wizard would burn out trying to do that. So a list of words used for spells in Dresdenverse won't be worth much. It'll depend on who's casting. Someone only used to speaking Latin would do good to stay away from 'Fuego' or 'Vento Servitas', for example.
     
  13. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    You're right. If I remember correctly, Elaine used ancient Egyptian as her magical language, whilst Harry mostly stuck to Latin.
     
  14. MysterioX

    MysterioX Professor

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    I haven't read this story since chapter 7 was updated. It was better having to read 5 chapters in one go. Each and every chapter was great. Even if in some places it gets slightly confounding reading between Hallucination and the real thing.

    I am slightly irritated with HP's lack of reaction to whatever it was that Dresden did. And no I dont' think it's a Horcrux, makes no sense.
    Can't wait to see what it really was.

    Update soon.
     
  15. semil

    semil First Year

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    Wouldn't that put Harry at odds with the White Council, and therefore the Gatekeeper? Well, more at odds than they already are. I think the actual phrase was something like not attacking or making war on the Council. Does that mean Harry can kill anyone not actually on the Council and still fullfill his oath?
     
  16. Redd Lenses

    Redd Lenses Guest

    Just noticed this on FF.net

    Ancient Mai: A female wizard high in the White Council hierarchy. She is very powerful and able to morph herself to a youthful or aged appearance. She bears some unexplained animosity for Harry Dresden; there are hints that her animosity is rooted in his family history. She is also on the hunt for the Outsider.

    Isn't she a dragon in the Dresdonverse?
     
  17. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    In the TV series she appears to have some dragon-like traits, but in the books she is pure human Wizard.

    Also, I thought I'd read this bit before :p. And I was all excited too, thinking there was another update out already >_>.

    Aekiel
     
  18. Redd Lenses

    Redd Lenses Guest

    Sorry for the false update:rolleyes:

    I just remembered a line where he sorta asks if shes a dragon and she responds something like 'Do you really want to ask that' or 'Do you really want to know'. Couldn't remember if it was TV or Book.
     
  19. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Ive just started reading this fic, after having just finished reading the Dresden Files books, and I have a question. Who is this Morningway character thats Dresden's uncle? I don't recall him being mentioned in the books.
     
  20. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Uncle? I thought it had something to do with his mother? I've only started Blood Rites, so I'm not sure