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Do you think Harry ever became as skilled as Dumbledore and Voldemort?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alexx, May 4, 2013.

  1. afrojack

    afrojack Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    There's definitely a good one where she tries to become MoD is there not? But it's only like, two chapters.
     
  2. Aurion

    Aurion Headmaster

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    Delving too deep in the pursuit of knowledge and losing your moral compass somewhere along the way is not just a Rowling thing.

    Besides that, I generally agree; Hermione is in the classic archetype of someone who thinks they know what's best for everyone because they're smarter than most people.
     
  3. someone010101

    someone010101 High Inquisitor

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    Hermione is with Harry, her destinied and soulbonded Mate. But the jealous sidekick Ron betrayed and killed Harry. Now Revenge is not enough for a disillusioned Hermione, she must dive deep into the Dark Arts for her quest to revive the love of her life.

    There we go. Actually, thinking on her feet is not one of Hermiones many talents, so she would be more of Mad Scientist/Manipulator type villain then a Dark Lady that is in the thick of things.
     
  4. Knyght

    Knyght Alchemist

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    Doesn't she go bad in Song of the Trees? I remember a fight between her and Harry at any rate.
     
  5. Alexx

    Alexx Card Captored and buttsecksed

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    Nah she is a ministry stooge + I think the ministry kidnaps Ron and forces her.

    ---------- Post automerged at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 AM ----------

    This is pretty much done in Only Enemies.
     
  6. Kyouzou

    Kyouzou First Year

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    I think the general consensus has been reached that Harry never became as skilled or powerful, which I agree with. However we also have to consider that where the others who are referenced, Dumbledore, Grindlewald, Marauders, Snape, Voldermort, all attended Hogwarts without having to worry about the dark wizard out to kill them, or the random creature petrifying/killing things, their insane godfather hunting for them, etc. They actually received an opportunity to focus solely on their schooling, with the biggest concerns being the childhood bully, and an unfortunate case of attempted murder. Perhaps I'm not remembering it correctly, but wasn't Riddle allowed to stay at Hogwarts over the summer, at least once the war started, or am I mixing canon and fanon? If that did happen, he would've had access to Hogwarts' famed library with virtually no restriction considering the lack of censorship.

    Also, if nothing else, Harry is shown to be a prodigy at DADA, not because he knows x spell, but because at the age of fifteen, he's able to teach and do it well. It's not as if he's simply revising old spells, he actually teaches them new things, I feel as though that indicates an actual mastery of the subject.

    Again, I agree that he would most likely never reach the skill level that Voldemort and Dumbledore boast, however, we're also dealing with a best the view of a teenager who spent the vast majority of his time fighting for his life, without anyone actually present to encourage his learning other than Hermione. The epilogue at best provides us with cloudy context clues as to his skill level and abilities. Essentially, while it's not likely, it's not entirely as impossible as quite a few people have said.
     
  7. Rache

    Rache Headmaster

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    Voldemort needed 32 years of magical education to challenge Dumbledore's power.

    As unmotivated our protagonist is, I can see a 60-70 aged Harry Potter duel like Tom Riddle and Albus Dumbledore. After all, he has nothing else to do other than learning magic as an auror and his free time when his children leave for Hogwarts.

    As much a darling his wife Ginevra maybe, I can't see him all lovey dowey with her 24/7. So, yeah. A 70 year Harry might have reached the level of Dumbledore and Voldemort.
     
  8. Palver

    Palver High Inquisitor

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    Riddle and Dumbledore two Mozarts and DaVinci's of magic who studied relentlessly for decades without any distractions like family. An average musician or painter will never reach their level even if he will study for decades. Harry will hit a plateau in skill and will be unable to progress any further.
     
  9. 0jordinio0

    0jordinio0 Seventh Year

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    ....Honestly? I see Harry as someone who had the potential to be great. But, never reached that potential for multiple different reasons.

    He should have, could have and would have, but didn't because of; The Dursleys, Hermione, Dumbledore, Voldemort and the many other dangers that he had to deal with over his tenure at Hogwarts.

    Post-time skip Harry. I see him as basically, thanks to a natural aptitude for battle that may have actually come from the horcrux in him, and probably alot of raw power - the best of the best. He stands above everyone else, and is basically the greatest of that time.

    But, 'that time' isn't a time with either Dumbledore or Voldemort. Harry is now the best of the best, but they were and will always be 'those who curb stomped the best of the best'.

    If Harry managed to reach his full potential, he probably would be on that level. But he didn't so, in a straight up fight they rape him 6 ways from Sunday.
     
  10. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Everyone has the potential to be great, if you change every event of their life from birth.
     
  11. afrojack

    afrojack Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    lol.


    But, Harry was already a great hero in many ways when he left Hogwarts, and as someone who really didn't start applying himself until around 17, I can see Harry coming out of Auror training, which we know they get, as a very competent wizard, especially with no Voldemort to worry about.
     
  12. Hw597

    Hw597 Seventh Year

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    Just wanted to note the fact that Harry later became the Head Auror doesn't actually mean he actually became talented. I am sure that anyone who has any notion of work place politics knows that seniority and talent are rarely associated. In addition, he defeated Voldemort and saved their nation. Harry would have to actively shit on his career not to eventually get that position.

    One of the morals behind JK's story is that lust for power is less effective than a desire to live and enjoy life. Dumbledore, Voldemort and even to a lesser extent and Hermione were examples of people who strove and pushed themselves. In the end they were "lesser" for it. Nevile and Harry were examples of people who just want to enjoy their lives and handle any situation thrown at them to protect that life and are "better" for it.

    This is utter bullshit btw.

    No JK's Harry would never end up being an exceptional wizard. That drive isn't there, the fact that he passed up the elder wand shows that.
     
  13. Alexx

    Alexx Card Captored and buttsecksed

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    Auror! Harry. He and Ministry don't like each other, so WHY Harry will work for them? I don't see why Harry would work an actual job at all. He's a celebrity and assumedly rather rich, especially after inheriting Sirius's gold. Even if not, he could just make appearances and endorse stuff to make piles of gold. I'd believe he would be a Quidditch star more then anything.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  14. Palver

    Palver High Inquisitor

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    Harry is not the type of guy to course through life with inherited wealth and celebrity status. And Kingsley is the Minister for Magic after all...
     
  15. PotterFan

    PotterFan High Inquisitor

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    No. Harry became a child rearing bum, like his friend, Ron.
     
  16. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Not being an exceptional wizard was the point. Being an exceptional person is more important than that. You'll note that all the truly exceptional wizards were varying flavors of insane, and we have a three-for-three track record of the legendary talents trying to take over the world and enslave most of humanity, though Dumbledore did back out before committing himself fully.
     
  17. Lungs

    Lungs KT Loser ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    There is no good or evil. There is only power and those who are too weak to seek it. :\
     
  18. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Where's that quote that I always attribute to NMB even though it's not his quote...
    "The ultimate problem was that the first few books imply that the overall story would be about a boy growing up to be a hero, and what we ultimately got was the story about a patsy who was manipulated into fulfilling someone else's overly complicated scheme to preserve the status quo of a society that didn't deserve salvation."
    There it is. I think this is somewhat relevant to the conversation. Harry was never meant to "become as skilled as Dumbledore or Voldemort." It's my understanding that JKR's intention was to have Harry be... just a kid.

    A kid who got thrown into events that are way over his head, and managed to come out of it alright in the end because of his courage, determination to try to do what's right, and willingness to die for his friends ("love").

    I went into Harry Potter expecting a typical hero-type story after the first four books (I picked up the series after GoF but before OotP). I expected Harry to saddle up, get good at magic, get motivated, and generally learn how to not suck at everything. But he never did - he was in the middle of a war and still struggling to cast spells in 6th year classes. It took me a long time to realize that that was part of the point — Harry Potter is a story about an average boy who was inexplicably targeted by a terrorist (because of a prophecy) when really he's not worth being a blip on Voldemort's radar.

    The story wasn't about the rise of a hero — it was about a kid getting caught up in events that he couldn't handle (just like most kids today couldn't handle either) and trying his damnedest despite it all because he's been put in that position whether he likes it or not.

    Loads of fanfiction authors rewrite things so that Harry follows a more typical hero path, where he becomes a BAMF. I like those stories, provided they don't take it too far, but there's something to be said for what JKR tried to do as well. Once I realized that's what she was trying to do I became a little less irritated with how the series ended.

    [EDIT] That's not to say that Harry didn't become a good Wizard as an adult. He was better than average at DADA, had a few investigative instincts, and was willing to take action when required. He also exhibited some leadership ability.

    But at 30 I see Harry as an "above average wizard" at best, probably with more skill in Defense than other areas, maybe even a bit better duelist than most. Wizards like Dumbledore and Voldemort, however, are in another league entirely.

     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  19. calutron

    calutron Unspeakable

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    I don't think Harry can ever become as talented as Dumbledore or even a pre-Voldemort Riddle. Harry just doesn't love magic the same way that Dumbledore or Riddle love magic. He loves the magical world, he loves quiddicth, he loves to do the right thing, but he at his core could care less about magic. In fact what comes easiest to him is his "doing the right thing complex", neither D(took him a century to learn it) nor R(never did learn it) have that.

    Some have stated that spending 80 or so years would allow Harry to reach the level of D/R. But the way I see it, these guys were making/doing/pursuing amazing things from the get go. I don't think he can do things that explore entirely new branches of magic or develop new theories. That kind of love of creativity for creativities sake doesn't exist in him.

    Now about him being the head of aurors, it's a mistake to think that the head would need to be some badass wizard who can go toe to toe with D/R. The head of Aurors R.Scrimegeour(pardon the spelling) and the head of DMLE A.Bones were both considered competent in their jobs but were they not killed?
     
  20. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    The head of the FBI is not contractually required to be able to solo their entire department in a mixed martial arts competition.

    I don't see why anyone would think this would apply to the Aurors, either.

    The part that matters is being a good leader. Harry's already proven to have natural talent in that area. Being able to throw down with werewolves in a bareknuckle boxing match or conquer an Iron Man dueling circuit challenge seems pretty irrelevant.
     
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