1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Doctor Who

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by Heleor, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,077
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
    Honestly, I don't think the show has been this consistently good since Matt Smith's second series, way back in 2011. Which isn't to say that every episode has been an all-time classic, but they've all been thoroughly enjoyable, well written and acted, and clever.

    Very intrigued by them keeping the Doctor blind. How long do we think it's going to last? On the one hand, it's hard to see how they could convincingly do it for the next eight episodes, but on the other hand it'd be a really interesting twist, and it would tie into the fan theory that he's already in the process of regenerating - regeneration by a thousand cuts, if you like.

    And I've narrowed my Vault ideas down a little more - currently thinking that it's Simm!Master, and that Missy is going to be an unlikely ally against him.
     
  2. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    8,020
    Location:
    Australia
    Would have been nice if they'd kept it a secret until it became relevant again, instead of just.. throwing it out there at the end.

    You know, based on the early previews of Bill, I really thought I'd hate her but, she's grown on me. The only thing that really annoys me is her reaction to anything related to death, but I assume it's related to some plot deal.
     
  3. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,444
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Her mother died early - and it's come up in two separate episodes now, so it might be a plot hook.

    Bill is growing on me as well. Her introduction video was godawful but the actual writing and acting in the episodes is solid. Like her a lot more than Martha, at least.

    This season was consistently solid but not outstanding for me. Not sure if that's because I'm outgrowing the show but I haven't been eagerly awaiting every episode each week. I do enjoy them when I watch though.
     
  4. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,130
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Under your bed.
    High Score:
    4,507
    I feel like Moffat and his writers have just never really found their stride writing good stories for Capaldi.

    Every series of Nuwho pre-Capaldi has had episodes that outshone entire seasons of average writing; shit that had me on the edge of my seat, shit that was stone cold brilliant sci-fi. Examples: the Empty Child arc, the Satan pit arc, girl in the fireplace, the family of blood arc, silence in the library arc, midnight, vincent + the doctor, god complex, asylum of the daleks, rings of ahkaten, journey to center of the tardis, day of the doctor...

    Writing like that breathed life into the show and pumped up my enjoyment levels for all the subsequent eps that were sub stellar to average to just plain bad.

    And that's main problem, I think. Heaven Sent and Hell Bent are probably the only plots for Twelve that have truly impressed me, and I wouldn't really say either of those eps are series defining masterpieces that made me forget the bad (and there was soooooo much bad in S8-S9). The bulk of the highlights of Capaldi's tenure have come, not from the writing, but mainly from the actors themselves.

    TLDR: The show remains enjoyable, particularly this new series thanks to Capaldi and Mackie's great performances and chemistry... but the stories themselves just don't wow me anymore.

    Here's hoping they will.
     
  5. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,077
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
    I've got high hopes for the next set of episodes - Extremis, The Pyramid at the End of the World, and The Lie of the Land - which are apparently a three-parter written by Moffat, Peter Harness and Toby Whithouse. Harness wrote Kill the Moon and the Zygon two-parter in the last series (KtM is polarising, although I enjoyed it, but the Zygon Inversion/Invasion was one of the best stories from series 9), and Whithouse did School Reunion, The God Complex, and Under the Lake/Before the Flood, which are all excellent episodes. Could be the story that makes this series something brilliant, rather than 'just' consistently good.
     
  6. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,444
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I enjoyed this a lot. Especially given the connected nature of the series, this was a great episode. First 10/10 of a season of mostly 6s and 7s.

    The way they archtected the episode it lacked the normal issue with 'virtual world' episodes. Not only was there real life connections with the Missy plot, the fact that the Doctor has the memory of the episode is great!

    Although, not blocking 'sendmail' is a very silly resolution to the plot. :D
     
  7. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,077
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
    That was great. Thoroughly weird and creepy, and between the scenes with Missy and Bill's date, several genuine laugh out loud moments. Here's hoping they can keep it up for the next two episodes.
     
  8. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,130
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Under your bed.
    High Score:
    4,507
    Bit of a hamfisted resolution to the conflict at the end there, but a very satisfying episode all around.

    Did anyone pick up on why Missy was being executed? Presumably she did something naughty?
     
  9. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,444
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    RE Missy: I don't think an explicit reason was stated (although there was a lot of the black guy's dialogue I missed due to some sound issues). The wiki says "at some point" so it's probably a future plot hook.

    (Edit: Not sure if her presence is a spoiler. Fixed either way.)
     
  10. Redsayn

    Redsayn Slug Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages:
    189
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That episode wasn't the best. In my opinion, it is the definition of filler- you could easily skip it on reruns, and miss little. However, whilst it wasn't necessary to the overall plot, the atmosphere and acting were great all around, as well as the characters and their interactions. I'd say it's maybe a 7/10; depending on the quality of the villain, and how it ties into the overall plot/how the Missy plotline continues, I'd say its overall impact on the series could be raised to a 8/10
     
  11. Redsayn

    Redsayn Slug Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages:
    189
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    My review of 'The Pyramid at the End of the World':


    What an episode!

    “The Pyramid at the End of the World”- a title which matches the impact and magnitude of the episode perfectly. Such a conflicting pair -antiquated structures and far of inevitabilities- that really shouldn’t work; such a wacky and impossible combination, that exceeds my own expectations and delivers an intriguing and masterful epic.

    Let’s get the obvious out of the way: the acting was great.

    Capaldi and Mackie are, as I’ve said probably said before, perfect for their roles. They continuously deliver fantastic performances, and fluctuate between comedic gold and dramatic greatness at the suddenness of a snap of the fingers fluidly and organically. Matt Lucas’ performance as Nardole was pretty decent, though he simply didn’t have enough to work with to deliver a truly stand-out showing of either the character or his acting ability. That doesn’t take away from anything however, for everyone perfectly served the plot for the betterment of the episode. All of the characters were perfectly balanced, and I cannot stress enough that everyone were simply correct for the episode.

    Of course, the music was awesome- it always is, and it was incorporated perfectly; the same can be said for the cinematography and the imagery, sometimes blatant or, at times, more subtle.

    The themes/messages of the episode were put across with all the care and consideration anyone can wish for, ideas such as ‘survival and slavery VS death and freedom’ delivered with a class that has earned Doctor Who such a spot in British history, as is the bold statements on the necessity on world peace, and how despite the magnitude of such a matter and the threat of world war we must not lose sight of other dilemmas that we create. Granted, there is the tongue-and-cheek Donald Trump reference, but that can be easily glossed over and enjoyed regardless of political opinions.

    And that about sums up the more blatant, technical aspects. Now, to the actual plot:
    Fantastic, as the 9th Doctor would say. Pure and simply fantastic.

    First off, the villain. Holy ****, those guys were terrifying. The idea of a race that wants to enslave us, but can only do so if we embrace them with love in our hearts, is a creepy concept worthy of the man who made the Weeping Angels. Their view of humans as walking, talking corpses is, whilst seemingly just a one-off line, one aspect that sticks with me; it really makes them seem larger than life, God-like in more ways than one. I predict that these monks are the kind of villain that we will look back on with fear and a thrill that comes with the sensation of the space under your bed where a monster no longer resides.

    Further, the ‘solution’, and I use the term loosely. It’s been well-established that the Doctor is a genius, and willing to sacrifice both himself and any number of lambs to achieve the greater good of the innocent- these aspects shine through, though the former two much more than the last. However, his master plan is not what I am referencing- I am talking, of course, of Bill.

    I wouldn’t say that I teared up, but man did I feel like my mind was slowing to a stop. That was perfect; delivery, writing and everything that brought that scene to existence- spot on. Absolutely brilliant.

    To conclude, I loved that episode. I wouldn’t say that it was a 10/10- after all, as great as it was, I felt like whilst the script was constantly achieving 7s-9s, it just never hit that spot of complete bliss. Despite this, the acting, the writing, the directing and everything else earns the episode an 8/10.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  12. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,444
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    My spoiler-free opinion: not as good as Extremis but still well above average. I fully expect this three-parter to be a classic story.

    Speculation:

    Looks like next episode is a "what-if" story. The resolution is likely going to be the Doctor starting to regenerate and Missy being out of the vault, but with the rest of the world reverted.
     
  13. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,077
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
    I felt like there were bits of this episode that operated at the opposing extremes of Moffat's run overall - some massive leaps in logic on the one hand, but some very clever bits at the other.
    I'm thinking specifically the bit where they're trying to work out what the real threat is, and Nardole and the Doctor basically go "Bacteria?" "Ooh yes, that sounds cool, let's go with that!" and it conveniently turns out to be right, contrasted against the way they figure out where the problem is and how to resolve it.

    Also, I'm not entirely convinced the logic of the cliffhanger holds together.
    Bill's consent is accepted because it's out of love, and therefore pure...but then she outright tells the Doctor that he needs to save the planet, implying that it's at least partly a strategic play, that she doesn't think his immediate victory in stopping the plague is going to get the Monks to leave (reasonable assumption) and that if he's been blown up then they're screwed next time round. That makes her decision more acceptable, but doesn't seem to follow the episodes own rules.

    Those - relatively - minor niggles aside though, I thought it was brilliant. Very tense throughout, with some great work from the entire cast, but I'll single out Rachel Denning as Erica - I really want her to come back as a companion!
     
  14. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,444
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    There was cut dialogue due to the Manchester attacks last week, that addresses your first spoiler Shinysavage.
     
  15. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,336
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New Zealand
    High Score:
    4,500
    I picked up on this immediately as well. However, I thought it might be exploited to resolve the next episode. If not, then it's a pretty glaring plot hole, yeah.
     
  16. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    8,020
    Location:
    Australia
    I looked at it like so:

    Bill's action was motivated by her love for the Doctor. She didn't do it to save the world. She did it to save him from the whole 'exploding' bit.
     
  17. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,077
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
    Sure , that was how it was presented....right up until she says "Old man, you better save my planet." I mean, it's something I can live with in the long run, even if it isn't used in the third part, but for such a well written episode for the most part, it stood out.
     
  18. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    8,020
    Location:
    Australia
    I think she meant it regarding her consenting and the fallout.
     
  19. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,077
    Location:
    UK
    High Score:
    2,296
    That was a rather disappointing conclusion to the trilogy, all in all. Not a dreadful episode, but it felt very rushed, hopping from bit to bit without much really keeping it together. Oh well
     
  20. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,444
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I enjoyed the trilogy overall but I agree - the ending was definitely the weakest part.
     
Loading...