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Doctor Who

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by Heleor, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

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    Re: Leaks. Look at your own risk.

    https://gallifreybase.com/gb/thread...-general-part-2.260018/page-759#post-11928020 (May require registration, not the original source, but quotes the original source)

    There was also apparently a filming leak before this one that said 'Ruth's Tardis" so this one might be extrapolating from incomplete data.

    This episode (and this season as a whole) seems to be making callbacks to the RTD era. Note how 'just this once, nobody dies!' was a very accurate statement by the 9th doctor.
     
  2. Quick Ben

    Quick Ben In ur docs, stealin ur werds.

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    Good god, I completely and utterly detest the supposed Timeless Child storyline. Fuck, I hope they don't go that route. It will completely invalidate the Time Lords and turn the Doctor into a generic "super special protagonist.

    Yeah, for me that quote seems to have been formed on the basis that the Doctor had just resorted to genocide to end a Time war, not that people were always dying around him.

    But yeah, I do acknowledge that people did die even in the RTD and Moffat era. The only difference here is that the Doctor rarely if ever seems to be affected by those deaths.
    In comparison 9,10,11 and 12 often went out of their way to ensure casualties were at a complete minimum and any deaths that occured were usually met with righteous indignation and swift retribution.

    In this episode, the Rhinos kill a bunch of people and more or less get away scott free. The old woman, the baker guy who apparently had an established relationship with Doctor Ruth, and her husband, all die and no one reacts, let alone comments on their deaths.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  3. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    To be fair, I'm not sure the Doctor actually knows about the first two deaths. She's certainly not there when they happen, but I can't recall if they're mentioned afterwards. And by the time the husband is dead, she does at least have some rather more pressing issues at hand. Not disagreeing with the basic point though.
     
  4. Hymnsicality

    Hymnsicality Seventh Year

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    The doctor already is a super special protagonist if you dive into the lore a little
    The Doctor is essentially the genetic reconfiguration of one of the founders of gallifrey who looks suspiciously like the first doctor.
     
  5. Gaius

    Gaius Third Year

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    An interesting episode!

    yeah I was sure I recognized his voice on the ship’s com system and when he appeared I was pretty surprised as well. His performance was kind of on the same pitch though.

    The misrecognition of Graham as the Doctor was sort of funny bc. of Harkness’ kiss, but I’m getting over the joke. We saw it already in “Spyfall.”

    I thought this too although usually if we’re in a different dimension, the Doctor seems to know it. So wouldn’t Doctor Ruth realize she was on a parallel earth? E.g. when 11 went to rescue the time traveler stuck in a pocket universe the Tardis was affected or when in “The Doctor’s Wife” the Tardis loses power because it’s outside the universe and the planet sucks her soul out. Also, last season 13 recognized they were in a dimension composed of a completely different element (leading to the frog dialogue). If she’s a past Doctor is it possible that something Jodie does can affect a regeneration in the past? That would be kind of an interesting spin instead of jamming an unknown regeneration into part of the story. This might go with how Orphan 55 revealed a “possible future” of earth that the Doctor knew nothing about. Something is wonky with her timeline and it’s affecting time in both directions.

    The Doctor does say she is Galifreyan, but when she shows her the mental image of a burning Galifrey, she says “check my mind, Time Lord to Time Lord.” So maybe the vaporization covers the lack of regeneration.

    I was thinking the same thing watching this episode. I didn’t mind last season bc. I hadn’t watched much Doctor Who, but after going back and watching all of New Who it wasn’t my favorite. This season is a lot stronger with the mystery Jodie’s trying to solve, problems in time, and the appearance of a new Master and Doctor.

    yes, obviously the Harkness cameo was a throwback, but the whole episode felt similar to me to the Judoon episode introducing Martha Jones. Also the chameleon circuit is important to both the Doctor as John Smith and the Master at the end of the universe in the RTD era.

    But the search for the fugitive also reminded me of Prisoner 0 in Smith’s debut as well. I suppose the twist was that ultimately the fugitive, who we assume will be the baddy, was the Doctor herself.

    I agree that this Doctor is divorced from the deaths so far this season. She isn’t upset by the deaths of the folks on Orphan 55, nor does she seem especially compelled to save people (e.g. Lee) except in the abstract, for the bigger picture (Gloucester as a whole). She doesn’t even look callous about it like a haughty Tennant as the Time Lord Victorious or Smith as the good man going to war. Maybe there will be a loss of a companion? Yaz and Graham have both been isolated and in put in risky situations now. It could be sobering for 13, which would add some complexity to her character and to the emotions/themes of the show.
     
  6. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    So... I was sure Ruth was The Rani. She had an "R" necklace ffs. And I was pretty disappointed that she was just alt Doctor.

    It would have been such a great time to reintroduce some of the other Time Lords.
     
  7. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    My heart sank when I realised we were getting another 'message' episode, but it was delivered with a lot more subtlety than the one in Orphan 55 - not that that's saying much, I admit. Decent enough, and I did like the few horror movie-esque moments, but not a classic.
     
  8. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

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    That was not nearly as bad an episode as I was expecting after your 'message episode' comment.

    This felt to me like an average episode - the Tardis was used well, and I was kind of expecting the doctor to just leave the guy to die. Definitely some weirdness regarding the Doctor not caring about random people dying.

    The twist with the scientist was actually delivered perfectly, I thought.
     
  9. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Super bland episode after the Judoon episode, which I enjoyed a lot.
     
  10. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    Really feels like tonight's would have benefited from being a two parter. A lot of good stuff undermined by an incredibly rushed resolution.

    Edit to add that I keep forgetting how young Ryan and Yaz are supposed to be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  11. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

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    I liked this one a lot, actually. The companion stuff at the end really rubs in how much I don't care about Ryan and Yaz, but the main story, the plot threads, and especially the villains were incredibly good.
     
  12. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    Finally, a good Doctor speech! Very solid episode overall, although depending on how the next two play out it might dip a bit.
     
  13. Quick Ben

    Quick Ben In ur docs, stealin ur werds.

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    It was a good speech. I especially liked the fact that she reminded them that they are not equals and they should begin to realize that. It really felt great to hear that.

    However, once again I will go back to my biggest criticism of these season so far. The deaths.

    The Doctor makes this grand speech about how individuals lives are important. However, in the past four episodes several people have died and she barely batted an eye or even acknowledged those people's deaths.

    More egregiously, 2 people died this episode. Absolutely no one reacted, mourned or even mentioned these people. One of them died protecting her famous employer's child, but she goes unmentioned. The only time she is mentioned is when the mother is concerned about her child.
    So the message of the Doctor/Show is that your life is only important if you are a famous person?? What?
    Apparently Shelley is so important his life will lead to the development of the modern world as we know it BUT these other guys? Nah, they were servants, who gives a fuck about servants, even if they save your children, they are still pretty worthless in the grand scheme of things.(I mainly mention this because I really noticed that the other rich people got off without any injuries or deaths)

    I hate to keep comparing, but I remember an episode where the weeping angels mocked the Doctor because he could not save one "fodder" soldier and they did it because they knew he valued his ability to save people, regardless of whether they were "important".

    Seriously, whats up with this show and how its approaching death so far?
    Its really bugging me.

    Also, what happened to not messing with history?
    In a previous episode, the Doctor went out of her way to erase a historical person's past in order to maintain history as it happened. However, in this episode, she just leaves Shelley and his rich friends with their memories intact writing about how "she's the universe"
     
  14. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

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    Well, this episode didn't answer a single thing. Guess they're waiting for the finale.

    I really didn't like the flying cyber-drones design. It felt lazy, especially given how good the lone cyberman design was.
     
  15. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    Not really sure what to make of that yet. A lot happening, none of it bad in and of itself, but how it's all going to come together I have no idea.
     
  16. Heleor

    Heleor EsperJones DLP Supporter

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    Well, that was a finale.

    I didn't mind the rewritten lore, but the episode felt a bit boring to me. I was probably expecting a bit too much from it, though.

    The CyberLords design was really good! ... although they died to a single shot just like normal cybermen, so...
     
  17. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    Doctor/Master scenes were good. Everything else was a bit meh, other than Graham and Yaz's heart to heart.

    Not sure what I think of the lore changes yet, although I do wonder how the team at Big Finish are feeling right now, given that it either kind of fucks up a fair bit of what they've established or, maybe worse, steals it with a few minor alterations.
     
  18. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    What the fuck?
     
  19. Majube

    Majube Auror

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    Haven't really watched most of this season or the last, only seen a few episodes since Capaldi. Is it likely she'll get two more seasons or just one?
     
  20. Celestin

    Celestin The Cursed Child

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    I stopped halfway the last Capaldi's season and it's on my list to finally get around and finish it, but since I don't have problem with spoilers, I check sometimes what's happening with the new Doctor.

    I can't decide what to say about recent revelations. On the one hand, I always liked the Cartmel Masterplan to give the Doctor a little more mysterious origin. On the other, this is a little too much and takes away from the "everyman" Time Lord who become special on his own. I suspect that most will initially hate it because it's a really big change and it's going to be a year or two before the fans will either accept it or someone will retcon it sooner than later.
     
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