There is, as a matter of fact, a difference between calling someone an idiot and making it so you're a kid's biggest fear.
Anyway. What are you basing the idea that Snape is remotely remorseful about anything other than Lily's death on? I can't recall him ever showing a shred of remorse, save for regretting Lily's unfortunate demise. Sure can't recall him being sad about having to murder Dumbledore.
Nor about bullying Hermione, one of the muggleborns he's apparently against discriminating.

Well, what other motives could he have had for telling Voldemort? Clearly he was savvy enough in Occlumency that he successfully hid secrets from Voldemort. He didn't have to tell the Dark Lord anything, but chose to do so anyway.
Why, then? I see two possible reasons here:
a) he wanted to see Voldemort win. Which is possible, but then why join the Order of the Phoenix and give them information? Unless you get into the double/triple agent clusterfuck, but even then I believe that was more Snape keeping his options open than anything else.
b) he wanted James (and implictly Harry, AKA Actual Proof Snape Did Not Fuck Lily Potter, an innocent baby) dead and gone, as this was his only real shot at bagging the only woman he ever loved. So he told Voldemort the Prophecy but begged him to keep Lily alive. So tragic it didn't work out for him and he resorted to remorsefully bullying the innocent kid who's being an orphan he orchestrated.

I can use whatever words I damn well please. And for comparing the Death Eaters to Israel, there are few words that fit better, IMO, than 'retarded'.

 

He was Neville's greatest fear, because he did things like calling him an idiot, etc. on the regular. He's an asshole. Which is not the same as being a murderer, which is how he sees it.

And everything I said in the original post about how JKR talks about/frames him. He's on the Order, knows what that job is. Or, what would Snape showing remorse look like? Him making a speech? Looking visibly frowny after Dumbledore asked him to murder him? He knew Dumbledore was going to die eventually, and he asked him to kill him. He doesn't bully Hermione because she's a Mudblood, that's because he's an asshole. I can see an argument that that's implicitly discriminatory, though. But I think his annoyance with Hermione's personality and general jerkishness was the factor there.

As for the prophecy, he didn't know who it entailed. He told Voldemort because he was a DE and that would allow him to curry him favour. Found out Lily was targeted, asked Voldemort to spare her, then went to Dumbledore. He wasn't thinking about James and Harry, because Lily was who he actually knew, and was panicking/making impulsive decisions. He joined because when he asked for Dumbledore's help, they made a deal, then Lily died, he felt remorse, continued on.

I agree that the Zionist/DE comparison was kind of clunky. But it's easy to interpret the general idea of what JKR is saying; they're horrible, the DEs are horrible.

The implication being that he was, eventually, no longer a subscriber.

 

There is absolutely no relation between whatever Snape felt for Lily or James and with him revealing the prophecy to Voldemort. Snape revealed the prophecy because he was a Death Eater. He heard the prophecy and ran to his master. Simple as that.

Learning who the prophecy referred to came later and he went to Dumbledore since it targeted Lily.

Revealing the prophecy and going to Dumbledore are two separate actions that didn't happen at the same time and have very different reasons.

 

I believe the death eaters aren't a metaphor for Israel at all, but rather the Nazis- or you know... the exact opposite of Israel.

Also, your anti-Israel stance is rather overbearing. I don't think their actions warrant having themselves linked to a fictional terrorist group. Yes, they are rather blase about civilian casualties, and certainly paranoid, but the paranoia is warranted after being invaded over six times and being attacked countless more times. They simply cannot risk it. But either way, political discussions should be relegated to the politics thread, so I shall cut myself off there.

 

Err... what? Why is Israel being discussed in the Snape thread?

 

Back to Snape. ^^
For me is Snape a character who served the purpose to create a believable antagonist for Harrys daily life. In the frist years he is mean to poor Harry without a reason. Be honest, who don't know that situation? A problem with a bad teacher. At this point everybody sympathize with Harry and is absorbed into the story. But why does he still help Harry? This is a question every reader of the books is asking until book five. Then he plays a part in the lovestory of Harrys parents that explains his behavior torward Harry. Only to raise new questions.

Rowling is a great author without any doubt, but even she can't create a hundert percent 'authentic' fictional human being. There will always be some holes in the characterization or discrepancies.

But maybe we should try to understand what Rowling wants to tell us:
Everybody deserve a second chance.
Look at the life of a person who holts on a lost love for nearly twenty years.
You don't have to like a person to help him or her. Just do the right thing!
Try to make amends for your sins.
Look what happens if you are ridden by guild for years.

And last but not least we shouldn't forget Rowling has written the books originally for her children.

 

I really don't think it redeems him, as all it shows is that he can hold onto feelings for a long time, and after all that time he really should have let it go, just like he should have let go of his grudge on James Potter enough that he didn't persecute Harry.

 

In sum, Snape was a great character and shitty person, whose actions lead ultimately to the defeats of voldemort. If talking "love" as him working with the order then the answer could be yes. In the long run, Voldemort being gone out weights the mental taxing and trauma of a couple hundred kids. But on his love FOR Lily then no. Just because Snape was driven by his "love" (cough, obsession) for a girl who clearly moved on doesn't redeem him in the least. Snape can love as big and as much as he wants but on a personal scale with his favoritism and harassment of students, it amounts to zilch.

 

No he was super creepy with his obsession which has always made me wonder if he didn't like harry not only because he was James son but also because he had lily's love while Snape never did.

 

Snape was the bravest biggest douche Harry ever knew.

 

No its like joining the Nazi army, becouse your jewish love rejected you.
it is not okay

 

His love for Lily doesn't redeem him, but it takes bravery to face Voldemort and falsely claim to still be loyal. In the end, Snape's actions contributed greatly to Voldemort's defeat, and I think that accounts for a lot.

Snape wasn't a bad man imo, and he would have been a good man, had he not chosen to hold a grudge against a child just because of his father. Snape was stupid in this regard.

He would most probably have been a much worse man if not for his love for Lily though, even if it itself doesn't redeem him.

I wonder what Snape thought of his own chances at surviving the war.

 

This. Explains it quite succinctly.

 

...Snape didn't join the DEs because Lily rejected him.

 

It didn't exactly help matters, now did it?

 

"Lily rejecting Snape pushed him further toward the DEs (after he'd already been hanging out with the proto-DEs at Hogwarts for years and letting them influence him)" =/= "Snape joined the DEs because Lily rejected him".

 

I don't think so. While he undoubtedly did a lot of good working against Voldemort, I don't feel that outweighs all the damage he did while he was acting all broken from the loss of Lily to James. Just giving the prophecy to Voldemort caused the lives of his best friend, the man who saved his life, and almost their innocent child.

 

Snaps was brave, to spy on Voldemort and work for Dumbledore right under Voldemort's (nonexistent) nose. If anything, that redeems him, rather than his love for Lily.
Even evil people can love someone, or at least be obsessed - Bellatrix seems quite devoted to Voldemort.

Snape always loved Lily, even when he told Voldemort the prophecy that would quite obviously get a baby murdered . His fixation alone didn't make him grow a conscience.

 

I don't think his love for Lily redeemed his actions later on. He as a shitty person, he was vindictive and angry and let's be honest: working out your problems by berating an 11-year-old? Not very mature.

His love for Lily didn't make a difference in how he treated Harry.

But, Snape was brave and he did what he thought was right when it came to Voldemort. In the end, he probably wasn't the best choice to name your son after though.

 

If anything, a Snape that truly loved lily would treat the son she died to protect well. I think Snape loved the IDEA of lily and him, or perhaps the person he was when he and lily were friends. But he did not love Lily, or he would have turned traitor far before the prophesy, since Lily had already defied Voldemort 3 times by then.