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Does Wizarding Britain have an army?

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Vendo, Apr 20, 2007.

  1. Vendo

    Vendo Fourth Year

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    I know the Auror's are the police to their world but, you can't fight an organized and entrenched terrorist group with just police.
     
  2. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    A Wizard Army would be stupid.
     
  3. Vendo

    Vendo Fourth Year

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    Can you give some insight as to why it would be stupid?
     
  4. raja

    raja Fourth Year

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    Theres no mention of one in any of the books. They rely on Aurors or vigilantes like the Order of the Phoniex
     
  5. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    I personally think that the wizarding world would be fairly self policing. People taking care of their problems privately so to speak.

    We know that there are two levels of law enforcers. Aurors and Hit Wizards. JKR has stated that Aurors are Dark Wizard Catchers, and from what she has said about Hit Wizards I reckon they are most likely the bobbies on the beat, to break up fights and take care of crowd control etc.

    To be an Auror, you require something like 4 E's in your NEWTS, perhaps its 5, but its a lot. Then there is extra testing and then 3 further years of training. That means that it is a very elite group. 3 years of specialist training presumably in combat type things. I believe Tonks mentioned a tracking class, and a disguise class.

    On the other hand, if I remember correctly, Hit Wizards require something like 3 E's at OWL in DADA Charms and Transfiguration. Whilst that certainly requires a modicum of skill, its not anywhere near as much as is required to be an Auror.

    I would think that if, as is commonly used as an example, there are 10000 wizards and witches in Britain, there are maybe about 200-300 Hit Wizards, and then maybe about 50 Aurors at most.

    As for an army, I don't really see that they would have one. I would think that if they had the need for one it would be simple enough to call up everyone who got an E or above in either DADA Charms or Transfiguration in their OWLS, all of which would be useful in war.
     
  6. Athenia

    Athenia Groundskeeper

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    While a well trained fighting unit(meaning Aurors learning how to work as a unit)might make some sense, a lot of how armies developed in the muggle world just couldn't translate to the wizarding world.

    There aren't isolated areas of land - or rather that is to say there aren't large portions of land all together delegated to any particular "wizarding government." Why have an army when you would never march/launch or whatever into another country to take some form of control? More realistically you would train up a small group of good fighters and take over their ministry building. Why build up a group of followers back in the day to go from city to city(town to town) to enforce policy, or force areas not under your jursidiction into your jursidiction if there are no large areas of land or towns next to towns of solely wizarding citizens?

    Obviously JKR suggests that the wizarding world is familiar with the concepts as they know the word(the DA), but apart from the idea that it is possible that not all wizarding ministries are as isolated from muggle ministries (think Bob's Sunset idea) that perhaps some ministries have wizarding units or some such whether you look at the way in which armies worked 2000 years ago, 700 years ago or even the more modern armies today, there just doesn't seem to be:

    1) a need for them
    and
    2) a way for them realistically be utilized unless ministry X and ministry Y send there troops to some unpopulated area and said "have at it" and whoever survives is the "winner"
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2007
  7. Master Slytherin

    Master Slytherin Headmaster

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    An army would be a complete waste of time against Voldemort. His attacks are mainly guerilla and so an army would be useless against them. That's one thing fanfic authors forget before they send Harry's 'alliance' to march on Voldemort. If his Death Eaters are overwhelmed in numbers, he would most likely retreat and live to fight another day.

    Also, wizarding mentality would heavily discourage an army. Remember, they see Muggles as below them in every way and so would never use their methods of combat. And Muggleborns would not suggest it for fear of getting scorned and shunned.

    Wizards have different levels of ability. In most cases, the gulf is just too large to have a working unit - even the Order don't have a functioning formation. The idea of Dumbledore fighting side by side with Ron is just laughable. Not to mention the differences in fighting style.

    Finally, where would the numbers come from? The hardcore purebloods are already on Voldemort's side. I would assume that many of the purebloods, such as the Greengrasses (the Blacks in the last war spring to mind), would be in silent support of Voldemort and have no inclination to fight. The Muggleborns will not want to risk their lives or draw undue enemy attention onto themselves and their unprotected Muggle relations. Of the minority left, a great many are just too weak and stupid - Patils, anyone? Unless of course conscription to the army was mandatory. Then I'd wish good luck to the Minister who introduced that policy, heh.

    In conclusion...just no.
     
  8. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I imagine an army may have existed during World War 2 (which JKR has suggested Grindelwald had something to do with) and I expect it would have been mandatory conscription after leaving Hogwarts.

    Against Voldemort though, it just wouldn't work. As has been said, he uses guerilla tactics and terrorist attacks, not standing armies or prolonged conflict. Just look at the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan, the insurgents are using guerilla tactics there and the coalition forces can't fight them in any serious way. The only way they could do it would be to instigate a Vietnam style policy, but there's no way that would ever happen, in the magical world doubly so.

    On a side note, back before guerilla tactics and the likes were thought of, I imagine the wizarding world may have used standing armies like their muggle counterparts. Remember, both worlds weren't always seperate.

    Aekiel
     
  9. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Yoda Admin

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    Ah... this is a good thread (even if Aekiels avatar creeps the shit out of me).

    To the original poster: I'm going to concur with the previous posters and say that a formal army started solely to combat guerillas is purely retarded.

    Army units assume to be engaged and stay engaged (as you see with a lot of Action/Adventure fanfics). However, true guerilla's would do something akin to apparating in, AK'ing someone, and apparating back out. And so on.

    Thus you have wards, but wards can't be everywhere (logically), and thus guerilla tactics still work but she can explain away why the DE's don't raid, say, the auror department.

    However. Every state needs an army. You have no standing in international politics if you can't both defend yourself and enforce your opinion when needed. We know there's other magical governments / states, so it's not far-fetched to assume that the Brit's have a magical army.

    Though I'd reckon the scale of warfare is exponentially smaller than we're used to irl.
     
  10. Spacks

    Spacks Order Member DLP Supporter

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    I dare say the British Magical Government wouldn't require an army.

    They have the regular muggle army.
     
  11. Lord Apophis

    Lord Apophis Professor

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    Why would they use the muggle army? Not only would the ones in charge (purebloods) find it below them but it would also be rather hard to keep the wizarding world a secret if they contantly used the muggle army to settle their fights...
     
  12. BioPlague

    BioPlague The Senate DLP Supporter

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    I find it hard to explain the Iraq War. Maybe there's wizards involved -- you never know!
     
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