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Dresden Files - Battle Ground Spoilers

Discussion in 'Books and Anime Discussion' started by JaxBlake, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. Raiko

    Raiko Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    I imagine any Wrestling book would be as much about wrestling as Blood Rites is about porn.

    It would be the setting, but not really about wrestling at all.
     
  2. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Thing is, everyone likes porn. Nobody outside of NA gives two shits about wrestling or luchadores or the ridiculous premise of Greek Gods becoming wrestlers for immortality based on Greek people wrestling.

    How did Hades keep himself relevent enough to be a God? Is he out there part time elbow dropping?
     
  3. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Chief Warlock

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    He threw mankind off of hell in a cell.
     
  4. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    It was going to be about Harry investigating a murder of one of these, supposedly, immortal gods or something like that.
     
  5. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    I feel like all the stuff that's been said about Harry and the White Council is misguided, particularly in regards to Carlos. Like, first and foremost, I think it has to be said--Carlos has been a way better friend to Harry than Harry's been to Carlos, to the point where it's not even really a contest. When Harry needed help with something ridiculous that he didn't explain at all, which has happened several times now, Carlos still always came. When Harry needed someone on his side to handle delicate situations without much proof, like with Peabody--he asked Carlos and Carlos did it. And every time, even when he gets badly injured, the only thing he's ever asked Harry back for is some honesty. He followed Harry into the White Court Deeps and half-way down Harry started speaking a language Carlos didn't know--specifically, the White Court's language, which is a dead language, and Harry doesn't even speak Latin, the White Council's chosen language, which is super suspect--and didn't translate much of anything for him, and despite noting it felt like a trap, and there being a whole convoluted multi-betrayal plan involved that Harry told him nothing about, Carlos still followed him down there and was ready to sacrifice his life to buy time for Harry to escape.

    Here, in PT and BG, Carlos has asked for some pretty basic shit. He asked Harry, who's been behaving incredibly suspiciously (because he was in the process of committing crimes that could well have draw the Council into another fucking War), has been seen frequently in close proximity to a mind-controlling sex vampire, and has recent had sex, if he's having sex with the mind-controlling sex vampire, to which Harry's reply is essentially 'How dare you even ask that question!? Art thou so suspicious of me, the Winter Knight who came back from the dead and didn't bother even calling anyone of you, that you would ask completely reasonable questions!? I will not stand for this outrage! Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to work subverting this peace conference in a way eerily similar to how I drew the White Council into a war last time. Good day, sir. I said good day!'

    And somehow got less reasonable from there? Carlos asked some pretty basic assurances in BG, followed Harry's lead whenever he asked, led his team into a meat grinder in defense of Harry's city--and even at the end, Harry's still like 'But what have you done for me lately, bro?' Harry's a terrible friend to Carlos when all Carlos asked was 'Please tell me what the hell's going on, man' and there's really no reason to keep it a secret. Frankly, Harry's really relapsed on the trusting people shit and deserves to be called out on it.

    Also, he's really kind of a shit wizard. Politically, I mean--well, like, he's a shit wizard in general? That was made abundantly clear in this book. But I'm specifically referring to the political aspect right now. And the reason I say that is because...Harry doesn't really give a shit about the Council? He's pretty much never acted in the Council's best interests unless he was forced to, and even then, he'd stop as soon as possible. Like, he'll become a Warden if the situation demands it, but he's sure as hell not gonna leave Chicago for shit like a war he started, unless its for his personal business. He'll take responsibility on the surface, but lie about important shit at every turn. In PT, Harry puts the White Council in a potentially very dangerous spot, wherein he's committing a major crime against another supernatural nation while acting as a White Council envoy, and it's only the fact that the story forgets about all of Peace Talks that really resolves it?

    Harry's good enough in a fight, sure--but he never really fights for the Council, he mostly drags the Council into his fights. He doesn't want to respect or listen or care about anyone else, but he wants them all to respect, listen, and care about him--on the White Council's balance sheet, Harry's a liability, he's not an asset. Frankly, the weird part is that they're kicking him out, instead of killing him. Because Harry keeps doing things that make him look as suspicious and untrustworthy as possible, on top of acting like a sanctimonious asshole a lot of the time. After the first time he started a war, all the times he dabbled in black magic, taking Demonreach, hooking up pretty blatantly with the Winter and White Court, and overall just kind of playing fast and loose with the lives of innocent wizards everywhere, why the hell would they want him in the Council?

    I like Harry and he's the protag, so we see his side of things the most, but let's not pretend he doesn't give everyone around him reasons to think he's an asshole, in between giving reasons to think he's a hero. He's the guy that went to Arctis Tor to save a friend's daughter, to be sure--but he's also still the guy who started a war that involved the entire White Council, and at the first meeting to discuss the casualties that this caused and the side-effects of his decision, showed up in a bathrobe, after not having showered or shaved in weeks.

    Was there any wonder they decided to vote on whether or not to kill him that day? I'm pretty sure if you did that in the military, they'd just skip straight to the beatings. Here, he's laid claim to the lost island of magic Hitler, sworn an oath to the Queen of Air and Darkness, died and come back to life, said nothing to anyone on the Council about being back, and, uh, yeah--he ends up looking kind of sus.
     
  6. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    Just a musing...

    In Blood Rites Kincaid tells Harry he is “As human as he is”.

    Given the hints about Starborns maybe being immortal potential, might Kincaid be a Starborn?
     
  7. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    @Erotic Adventures of S

    Kincaid is a scion of Dracul and a human, as far as I'm aware. Pretty sure there's Word of God on that. At the very least, he worked for Dracul for a long time. I suppose it might be that wizards are a kind of scion themselves. Maybe Shezza was right and they're nephilim.
     
  8. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    He worked for Drakul but isn’t his son.

    He is said to be a scion, but tells Harry he is as human as he is. Given his age and skill, I thought Starborn may fit. Especially as everyone seems to know more about Starborns than Harry.
     
  9. Tasoli

    Tasoli Minister of Magic

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    I honestly stopped liking him around the time he gave word of kemmler to a blampire. I mean his judgement has been suspect since the 2nd book but that was the deal breaker for me. I was really confused when I realised there was no trick.

    Honestly Harry Potter had more wisdom and more spine when he was 11. He knew to trust his friends at least and did not compromise when shit hit to fan.

    I mean, imagine if HP gave Voldemort the PS in the first book because Voldemort threatened his friends! Even if it is not exactly same it felt like it.

    Edit: Also Harry was literally the worst wizard in the BG.
     
  10. RabidAsparagus

    RabidAsparagus Fifth Year

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    Honestly, the Kemmler thing makes White Council suspicion of Harry even more fair tbh. Because, well coming back from the dead and being in any way associated with Kemmler i.e. being the Warden of Demonreach? That's incredibly suspicious.
     
  11. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Quoting this (again) b/c I agree with it and it serves repeating (or reading if you skipped it because it's long):

    I liked Battle Ground but I didn't love it as much as I expected/wanted to.

    It felt sloppy, like Butcher didn't listen to his beta-readers (did I hear somewhere that was actually true). Some of it is probably because the book was split in two, but I don't think it was just that.

    Something about the favors felt tacked on and also wrong - I feel like Butcher may have counted wrong... and I think I also read that somewhere when I was reading reviews.

    Marcone felt... tell me if y'all disagree, but he felt out of character to me, and in a way I don't think is explained by Thorned Namshiel. It was this part that got me:
    Now... yes, in Even Hand (my favorite short story) we do have Marcone clearly on board with the idea that he would test himself against Dresden one day (or Dresden against him). Which this follows up on. But I also have the impression from Marcone that if it wasn't convenient or beneficial to throw down with Dresden then... why would he? Marcone has typically either spun Dresden's challenges to him as actually having been hired by him (earlier books) or else been paid for it properly (Skin Game). I don't think he needs to save face by taking out Dresden, so why is he so happy/excited about it? I'd think that he'd be ready for it, and willing to have that fight, but not eager unless it benefits him directly.

    Plus, wasn’t there a bit where they could hear children screaming and Marcone basically shrugged at Dresden like what do you expect me to do? Sure he might have to make a tactical choice there but I would have expected his eyes to barrow at least to indicate that he wasn’t okay with it.

    Thorned Namshiel wasn't too big of a surprise though, and I don't mind that too much provided they have a partnership similar to Nicodemus and Anduriel, which I suspect will be the case. Though I wonder if it makes sense how good Marcone was at magic - yes he has a badass fallen helping him with it and lending him power, but he started out with zero magical ability (or very little).

    Murphy's death was good - as much as I hated to see her die, I think her finally going out to another cop with poor trigger control was... actually pretty solid. She was paranoid and badass at dealing with the supernatural when she was out of her depth. Really badass. But it was something she didn't expect or take seriously that got her, something mundane.

    I'm even more curious about Starborn than I was before, and that's saying something.

    Thomas and his drama was mostly in Peace Talks and I'd almost forgotten about it by the end, which was annoying. Also where was Bonea at the end, did I miss that? Maggie was mentioned again, and she was in the Christmas story, but what about his other kid? Even if she was somewhere else and I missed it he still didn't think about her?

    The fights were... good, and some of them were great (Drakul) and some of them were epic (final), but overall for some reason the book felt... like there wasn't enough 'heart' to it, or something? There were bits but mostly it felt like an action movie, but unlike Changes where I was pulled through the pages like it was a proper thriller, this time I found it fairly easy to put down and come back to.

    Still can't wait for more tho.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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