Oh, something I don't see being mentioned a lot on various forums (though understandable since so much happened in this book):

Mab's foreshadowing on Molly. The whole, "should I fall, kill her quickly bit." Of course, it could just be read as further establishing how heavy/how much responsibility goes into the Winter Queen mantle to further humanize Mab, but I couldn't help but feel there was a bit of foreshadowing there. I realize it's still way too early to try and call whatever kicks off the BAT, but it's possible one of the events that happen at eh start or during that whole hubbub could be Mab's death/Molly's ascension.

 

Onto anticipation of the next book I say, which should still be mirror mirror i think.

I wonder how dresden would feel confronted by a morally bankrupt version of himself and potentially alternate murphy?

 

I said something on reddit along these lines. It's frustrating that Harry has had time to become batman with parkour and near-super-human strength, but has done almost nothing to improve his magical skills. He's got power in spades, he's gotten better at throwing that power around, he's gotten smarter in how he uses that power, but he has no finesse in combat magic. He spent this book being batted around and gets his fucking shoulder dislocated by the goddamn scouts (and would've died if he didn't have rivershoulders saving his ass) because he's still bringing a gun to the fight. That was cool in the early days, when it was low level practitioners and fae, but seriously, how does he not have anything in his arsenal besides wind, fire, and shielding?

It's frustrating that Carlos is his 'better' in magical skill (but not power) because Harry has done no training. And people are telling me that guns are the most efficient grunt killing tools and that he was just reserving his power for later. He got his ass handed to him because his options for dealing with small time threats are tossing them into walls with force/wind, blasting them with fire, (rarely) freezing them, and shooting them with a gun and using his big muscles. Fuck it's getting frustrating to read about batharry who hasn't had any meaningful growth in magic.

I don't think that Carlos should be that much more skillful than Harry, but Harry has been doing his best Neanderthal impression for a while now.

More thoughts to come later.

 

Harry did say in this book that it was time for him to go back to school.

 

So when is

Spoiler

Mab gonna get back at Marcone, given Thorned Namshiel was the one to invade Arctis Tor?

 

Mab plays the long game. Let's not forget Harry also invaded Arctis Tor.

 

Wasnt it hinted that Thorned Namshiel was Black Council?

As that attack was black council?

 

Took a bit before I first read "wolfish grin" but then it was just as frequent as always.

This is definitely the second half of the novel, and everything felt more complete. The biggest issue I had with the split, now that I've read both, is the

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Justine thing

because I had too much time to read fan sites and figure out that particular point. If it had happened within this one novel, it would've shocked more and felt better.

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Welcome to the jungle as a battle anthemfelt forced. As I've already said, I'm getting sick of Harry the Knight. It feels like the last several books have been like Harry the Witcher using some signs, not wizard Harry bends reality with his magic. It was cool to see Harry benchpress a car or parkour through the ice blocks. It's definitely not my definition of fun to see him go mano y mano with huntsmen and lose to the scrubs because he's not skilled enough to take out some low level threats like that without bleeding magic.


I think the direction Mab's character development has taken is not what I wanted, but well done. The idea of Harry throwing his soul into the meat grinder to protect others made a ton of sense to me. Even if sympathetic and understanding Mab isn't as cool as more ancient than time Mab. I hope Merlin's time shenanigans explains more, because Mab really ain't that old if her history with Merlin via Ethniu is true. I'd like it more if Mab fell for Merlin when he was traveling aeons in the past to create demonreach.

The battle was exciting, but I'll need a reread before I can really judge it. I feel it may just be endgame syndrome where so many things are happening it must be good until I have a chance to see it more clearly. The grit and grime chapter of Harry creating his banner didn't really paint as grim a picture as I think Jim was aiming for, or maybe I'm just desensitized to depravity because internet. Likewise parts of the battle were a bit too glossy, considering how much happened, and the oneupsmanship of the force movements were almost heist-movie-esque with how many different traps were sprung. The last ditch "I killed your girl and your friends, you've been played" "No u" was great, but the subsequent reveal that they were across the street was not. How was the house across the street safe from all the supernatural threats rampaging in chicago? Feels like Listen is being portrayed too competently to miss them across the street even with fae glamours, or Molly too incompetent to leave them there. Minor nitpick but it stood out to me.

I thought Harry's hand was cut off when he was fully embracing his mantle and swung at butters, took a bit before I understood it was just a burn line. It was awesome to see Harry kick Sanya's ass, but also feeding into my tiredness of Harry the Knight.

Drakul seemed too strong for Harry to get away, but at the same time they did kill the young wardens in that scene. I just feel a little meh about that entire sequence.
Toot and Lacuna becoming actual threats (even though Toot killed a summer queen long ago) is great, but it's another weird blending of comic relief and serious character that I've had my fill of with Butters. Who, by the way, is oddly powerful/not powerful inconsistently. He gets swept aside by the will and psychic tremors of Ethniu, but can stand up to her attacks. The faith shielding just seems inconsistent.

Maybe I missed something, but why is Marcone using flintlocks? Runed bullets, runed guns? I don't know. But also I can't say I'm a fan of the Thorned Namsciel reveal. Especially since now he's basically better Harry. Hendricks for the best death ever had. Fuck Rudolph, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's infected.

The Lara bit doesn't make sense to me, feels like bad fanfiction, but I assume Jim will do something about it that I haven't considered yet.

I dunno, I'm too tired to judge atm.

 

Eh, it's established that the Faerie courts haven't been a massive power for Eons or anything. Few thousand years at most. Used to be Odin's folk guarding the Outer gates before Winter took up the job. That implies to me that they're only in the ascendency since Odin's crowd started going downhill which isn't really that long ago.

 

Maybe I missed something, but why is Marcone using flintlocks? Runed bullets, runed guns?

Yup enchanted bullets. In the short story "Even Hand" Marcone is attacked by a Fomor wizard and takes him out with a enchanted bullet fired from flintlock. Gard said she cut the bullet out of Admiral Nelson at Trafalgar and it took a month to enchant or something. Basically BFGs, the fact he had like 6-8 of them was to show how Boss he is.

 

Does it strain anyone else's suspension of disbelief that

Spoiler

the Accorded nations think that the government will be able to cover all this up as a terrorist attack? The government reported 20,000 dead while Ramirez had it closer to 60,000. I know that Marcone said that the people of Chicago won't buy the cover up and that it is for the rest of the world, but come on. Not just Americans, but the whole freaking world is going to be out for blood.

 

So at this point, what would an incident report for the Federal Government look like for the major players?

 

So overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit, actually. Felt a lot more like a return to the series than last book. In all honesty, the biggest issue is that Peace Talks is basically irrelavent until the very end, and even then, it only kind of matters. Like, for a book that picks up immediately after where the last on left off, its amazing how irrelevant most of Peace Talks is. Most of the plot points from last time are barely even mentioned! Even the silly ones! Conjuritis was silly, but it really had no pay off at all.

Still, leaving aside the fact that this was a two-parter with a part one that didn't matter, the book stands pretty well on its own. I have a fair amount of issues with it, but most of them are issues with the whole series, tbh. In no particular order:

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Butters didn't annoy me as much in this book...most of the time. The character scenes with him were, for the most part, pretty good? Him standing by Harry, him being overwhelmed, all that's good. It's just that he seemed to wobble between that and random BAMF at times and it was almost jarring. I feel like some of it was add-ons and timeline issues from splitting the book--but on the other hand, competency in this book varied from moment to moment all over, so maybe not?

The fights were good. The whole book was intense. I've said before that the series thrives in the moment, in the emotional gut reaction. When you start actually thinking about them, though, you start seeing issues.

Biggest issue is definitely, as I said, the shaky-noodle power levels. The moment Ethniu punted Mab through a wall, I called that she wasn't going to remember she had that kind of strength and speed any time Harry was her target, and she absolutely doesn't--but she forgets a bunch of other things, too, as the plot demands. The scene where Marcone and his guys go after her after she smacks around four gods was hilarious but stupid, even in hindsight, and just one example of many. In context, it's even worse. The funniest part of the book was all the build up to Titania's appearance, only for Ethniu to literally plant her in the ground seconds after the fight began, while also beating the asses of Odin and the Erlking. But then it comes time to fight mortal thugs! Neat.

Also, Marcone's just a better wizard than Harry now, huh? I actually don't mind him being a Denarian--frankly, the way everyone was treating him and what he was getting away with as a normal human was pissing me off, but you say he sold his soul to the devil for power or whatever and yeah, fair enough. The fact that he was able to stand up to Ethniu when a room of super-powers were stunned--but hey, a Fallen Angel did it? Fair enough. But at the same time, it was kind of amusing how he makes Harry look like his bitch in this. Kind of funny how Namshiel forgot all this when he was getting his ass beat in Small Favor.

Justine was predictable, but being predictable doesn't make it bad. What makes it bad is that Nemesis was a fucking joke and the scene was super lackluster. What's with the monologue instead of the murdering, Mr. Big Bad Eldritch Abomination?

Murphy's death was...okay. I mean, I think we kind of all knew it was coming? It felt fine enough to me, in that sense, in the moment, in the pain and reaction it caused then and there--but it did sort of feel a little fast there at the end? Not that it wasn't made clear that Mab was just being cold and rational about this, but Mab still does what the author wants, you know? I'm mostly fine with the event, though, especially with her going down on a high note, after some Jotun-slaying, but quick love-interest transfers have burned me before.

Still, on the whole, I liked it a lot. Peace Talks is close to the bottom of my book rankings, but Battle Ground is top five, maybe even top three.

 

Yeah, this along with the mention of Carlos being better technically both annoys me but also makes me wonder.

Considering some of the other conversations that make it really clear that things have been being hidden from Dresden, along with what we know about him not having a formal apprenticeship and training, it makes me wonder if that hasn't all been very deliberate on the part of the white council to keep him struggling / weaker than he otherwise could be with extended, competent instruction from an expert.

Also, there's of course the possibility that Dresden has been to stubborn and short sighted to seek out some of those opportunities as well...

 

I fully believe there is some agreement amongst various members of the magical community to keep starborn ignorant until absolutely necessary. Both Drakul and Listen (which is my least favorite part of the book by far, kept thinking it was Listens-to-Wind) being starborn gives me a shadow of an idea why. Starborn are dangerous and not just to Outsiders.

EDIT: Still keeping my tinfoil hat theory of Nicodemus being starborn.

 

Agreed, I'd say that Listens-To-Wind more or less confirms it, indirectly, when he says he needs an entire year to speak to others. That timeframe puts things beyond just the white council.

 

Also River Shoulders back in Peace Talks said it wasn't his place to explain. And during the cornerhound fight, McCoy said something like "guess it's time to start teaching you what it means to be starborn." Wonder if we're going to learn more in Mirror Mirror (assuming I'm correct that Mirror Mirror is between Christmas and the end of the "year of morning").

 

I want to know if Drakul being starborn is what makes him so special.

Or was he already special and also happens to be Starborn.

Since he is obviously "Born" did someone arrange his creation like it was hinted Harrys was.

 

Immediate reaction was that I've learnt my lesson: if one of the next books is again cut in two, I'll wait for both to be released and read them together. This was clearly the second (better) half of Peace Talks, and only together do they form a whole cohesive narrative. I can't help but wonder if the obvious imperfection of the cut was a subtile message to his editors to not force him to cut his books in the future.

Anyway, it was much better on all accounts, even with some weird things on exposition/reminders. Like, in the beginning when describing the Erlking and then repeating the same things two pages later. Or the numerous reminders that "little Butters got really buff after training at the Carpenters' " that got frankly annoying after a while (and I'm not usually bothered by Butters). But globally a very good Dresden book, with emotionally powerful moments and quite a few interesting pieces of information. About Nemesis (I still prefer He-Who-Walks-Within though, thanks to Zeelthor), about starborns, and about mantles.

We got the confirmation of Mac's nature, too, if not his exact background. If I'm not mistaken, the Watchers/Grigori were the angels who fell for having fornicated with mortal women, and they were punished by having to be restrained underground until the End (and it escaped nobody's notice that his pub is underground). Considering the respect a lot of big-shots show him and the fact he's more "retired" than Fallen, I wonder if it was an knowing sacrifice in order to give a bit of an edge to humans, by giving them a bit of divine Power.

Will put the rest of my observations under spoiler, it's long.

Spoiler

If I check my predictions, I was quite wrong on most of it, which doesn't surprise me. Kinda called it on Thomas' side-plot being a trap to bring him to Demonreach, but I didn't expect the freaking Titan to be a diversion. And she's "by far not the biggest one" imprisoned in there? What kind of utter beast could that be? I thought Lovecraftian horrors were Outsiders and those apparently can break the prison from inside, so what remains?

And I was wrong about Murphy. I stand by what I said, though: the law problems seem a little pointless with Dresden having so few links to the mortal world still. Well, I suppose Maggie will have to do for those.
Also, I know Dresden would have gone quickly down the deep end, but I can't find myself happy that Rudolph lived. Would have been nice to read a protag not be stopped on his path of vengeance for once. And whoever has the worm on his payroll just made their way to 1st place on Dresden's shitlist. Maybe he's been stirred away for now, but the second the powers-that-be judge Rudy not-guilty of her murder (because I really don't see it happening any other way), Dresden's going to seriously work on who's his supporter and shit's gonna hit some fan.

Same for the Conjuritis, if that was all we see of this thing, it was completely pointless. I know a lot of people said it was meant to be foreshadowing about Maggie getting powers, but it makes no sense IMO. She's the daughter of the wizard protagonist (who comes himself from a line of OP wizards) and a Red Court semi-vampire, and Butcher has shown in a short story that she and Mouse battled her own demons in their spare time. Foreshadowing would be needed if she was vanilla mortal, the opposite is too obvious.

I'm not sure I was completely wrong on the whole independent signatory of the accords, though. The way Marcone says Wizard of Chicago, and the way Butcher retconned Christmas Eve to replace Wizard of the White Council by that same title makes it appear a little bit official, but I don't see him as a vassal of Marcone, so more a rival contender for the territory. The banner thing put them on an equal footing during the battle but the local magical community clearly defers to Dresden more (not sure how that will evolve with his expulsion, though), and it's been noted several times that he gained the fear/respect of many people during these few days, by his calling the Little Folk to battle, taking out Ethniu, and tricking Marcone over the spoils. And taking Camelot (which is how I'm going to call that castle until it is officially named, period) for himself on the way.

Alternatively, I wonder if Mab is actually trying to protect Harry by setting up this mariage, by tying him to another of the Accorded Nations now that he's not in the White Council anymore, since she can't be seen as protecting her own Knight openly. That and some power play towards Molly. She does seem to go out of her way to keep them apart, which seems out of the norm considering Fix and Slade are/were exclusively viewed in the company of the Ladies. Maybe it's because she's mostly Molly when they're together, and she thinks the Winter Lady is needed full time.

I'm starting to think that Mantles are a thing from Outside with how much Dresden seems to manage to humanize most of the ones he meets.

So according to Ethniu Archangels (I suppose it's an Arch- in the Sword) are traitors and cowards. Interesting. Traitors is expected since they, like most of creation, sided with humanity rather than the old gods, but cowards? Does she imply they chose out of fear of God, or something else?

Damn yes. She isn't even mentioned in that last meeting after her initial description of the mortals' response. Not a look, nothing. Like she was sort of veiling herself out of his notice. Maybe she is, in protest over him using her retainer to kill himself. But in all cases, it's time to riot. #Don'tForgetTheArchive #IAmIvy #Dresden'sThirdDaughter

As for my reflections on what is going to happen. If the next book is still Mirror mirror, I think any answer we get on starborns and the White Council's plans for Dresden are going to come from AU!Dresden, not Listens-to-wind. And I wouldn't be surprised if that info was part of what turned AU!Dresden into a goaty-wearing vilain.

I do think Dresden will do something for his apparent lack of magical training, and the return of both Bob and his lab is going to be instrumental in that. In some ways, this tome was thematically about going back to the normal from before Changes, or at least ending a few of the plotlines from the books since: the Fomor, the lack of a permanent base of operation, the wishy-washy relations with the White Council. And the sentimental entanglement with a mortal, I suppose. Now it's back to the usual: Harry and Bob protecting Chicago from paranormal threats. Except the stakes have risen exponentially.

Anyway, I suppose now's a good time to re-read the series and make a list of all the baddies that survived to possibly try their hand at "vulnerable" Dresden.