As the book is out in a couple of days I though I’d make a new thread. While he last one had spoilers people were still being nice and not going to in-depth.

This is for both the next two books, spoilers, speculation and maybe even leaks.

No need for spoiler tags, everything in here is a spoiler potentially, you don’t like it, don’t read this thread.

I’m getting the e-book when it drops and will likely read it in a day or two.

 

Anyone else reading it? Or I guess it's not out in America yet?

Mild spoilers for chapter 8:

Spoiler

Stars and stones, Thomas, you idiot. What have you done?

Edit: Just saw the part about not needing spoiler tags but I'll leave it since it's just come out I suppose.

Edit 2: Also chapter 9 spoilers, loving this so far:

Spoiler

Maggie and Dresden are adorable, consulting with an ectomancer to protect Maggie as a shade if he dies is amazing. So is "First, you should know that your dad is one tough son of a bitch."

 

I don't get my copy until Thursday, apparently. Y'all are timetravelers.

 

Just finished reading. Not sure what I think, will give it a day or two and then have a re-read.

My immediate thoughts:

1. Better than Ghost Story and Cold Days but not as good as Skin Game
2. Very obviously a single novel split in half - Peace Talks ended where we normally see the commencement of the events leading up to the end game
3. McCoy in battle is... something else
4. Still can't see who the traitor is, but I'm thinking Etri Black Council? Or perhaps Greys offhand comment regarding Justine? (edit: if there even is a traitor?)

 

Just finished it.

1. it's short.
2. It feels incomplete. You are stopping at the start of the final battle.
3. Everyone seems to come back for this book. Filled with secondary characters.
4. The pop culture references have almost vanished. Thank the gods.
   
5. Not a fan of the Fomor or the Titan. They feel so hamfisted in.
   
6. I'm so done with Murphy.
   
7. Go Lara and Molly.
8. Poor Thomas.

Things I didn't like:

1. Anything to do with Butters. God, I haven't wanted a guy to die so badly for a while.
2. Half this mess could have been avoided had Harry just told McCoy about Thomas. Things like this piss me off because it's put off so it can be used at the right moment.
3. As this book was so short, I wish Butcher had spent more time having Harry mingle with all the characters. Missed opportunity there.
4. No build-up for the titan or Fomor. Just bam, new bad guy. Very unDresden-series like.

edit: I'm struggling to rate the book because it feels so incomplete. I'm not satisfied as you don't get any resolution to the build-up. This book teases you but does not give you that sweet sweet release.

 

Just finished. 7.8/10

* Very much feels like half a book, good but incomplete.

* For awhile I thought breaking Thomas out was the main plot, which was by far the slowest point of the story.

* Pop culture references are way less thankfully. The only major one that grabbed me wrong is "You're a wizard Harry", no way Dresden could know that meme.

* I wonder if Butcher read some of the push back to the lightsaber of the cross as he has obviously nerfed it a bit. I was one of the few who didn't mind it so much, but now it does seem more.... balanced.

* The Butters three-way... I'll let it slide, a bit much maybe, but the fact he deliberately downplayed it... sure whatever,

* Butcher is fucking his timeline, the long break is showing a bit. Storm Front was set rough year 2000. Peace Talks is roughly 14-15 years later. So 2015ish. He reference the Notre Dame fire (In first half of the book two, showing likely when it was written). Also He is struggling with characters ages. Marcone, Hendricks and Michael were all mid to late 40's in Storm Front (They fought in Vietnam), they had to of been born at the latest in 1957 to realistically be in that war, and probably a few years sooner. So those Characters are mid 60's at least. Harry is touching 40 and Murphy a few years older.

* Where is The Merlin? He is not even mentioned? Surely as the head of the council he would be hear, this is literally the biggest treaty in years.

* Also Ancient Mai? Harry says Listen to Wind is the oldest on the council, I thought Ancient Mai was (North of 400 years old, where as McCoy and the Merlin are more like 320ish.

* Are these the best Wardens left? No one over the age of 40?

* I liked the call back to the potion from Full Moon.

* Lara was great, Molly was... not? Mab didn't do much which is ok. Marcone is still boss.

* McCoy... I dont know, I need to think on it. He was great, and good in a fight, not sure on his plot and hatred of the whites....

* Mab loved the original Merlin, and may have been the lady of the lake?

*Conjuritis... why? I am sure there is some deeper reason, but my god it seems stupid.



Overall it was a good book, better than I expected but obviously unfinished. I feel the only fair way to truly judge it is with Battle Grounds as well.

Questions to cover?


* Who set the cops on Harry and Murph?

* Who set Thomas up?

* What is the real deal with Formor and Outsiders and Black Council? Are they just working to destroy mortals and bring back the good old days? Outsiders seem risky as fuck.

* Final outcome with McCoy.

* Whats up with Ramirez? Something hurt him? And seems to involve romance? Also Molly doesn't like them (Is this due to her year on the streets).

* Did Mab know this was coming? She and Odin sent Harry to get those weapons that are now needed.

* Lara said Mab owed her due to her helping out with Visa issues for her people?

* What happen to Martha Liberty?

* How is the big bad bigfoot from Skin game back? Even River Shoulders doesn't know?

* King Cob killed that Fae King? I thought they couldn't be killed aside from Halloween? Won't that guy be back shortly?

* How fucking powerful is this Titan? Curb stomps Mab, bitch slaps a Dragon and terrifies Odin?

* Whats up with Mab and the original Merlin? Also how does this work with the mother/queen/lady dynamic set up.

 

Unless something else got to Ramirez, that happened in the Molly-centric short story. TLDR is that he and Molly were about to fuck, but the Winter Lady must be virginal, a Maiden as it were, and so she blacked out and woke up with Ramirez's bloody, broken body at her feet, after the Mantle had seized her body and beat him nearly to death.

 

Wow ok. I never read the short stories.... kinda wish they weren’t that plot important. Will have to find them now....

 

Harry said he hadn’t been to that castle before aside from as a spirit. But in skin game he goes after the job to pay wereguild to Marcone.

The break in writing does show...

 

The McCoy and Dresden fight with the Outsiders was amazing, one of my best fights in the series so far. Their final confrontation less so, very stupid actually given the stupid choice to have the reveal there.

I expected more major players at the Talks, it is supposed to be a big deal with all the signatories but we see less than 10 groups there. This was the weakest part for me. I wanted more from this and not just a call back to all the introduced players. It makes the entire world feel a lot smaller.

Merlin was mentioned. He is in Edinburgh trying to remove Dresden from the White Council. There is a vote ongoing there.

I really hope Murphy's "I love you" turns out to be a death flag. The whole you won't turn out to be as angry as your grandfather because you have me was annoying.

Conjuritis just feels dumb.

 

I’m putting a dollar down on Justine being the traitor. No idea why, but would be an interesting take on it.

 

Would it though? the helpless maiden who the deluded fool protects by doing heinous desperate deeds is the traitor all along feels a bit played out.

Read it. It was aight. The titan was weird. Mab being ridiculed and punted through a wall feels a bit bugs bunny but eh.

 

Perhaps, but I also feel everyone else is to obvious to turn on Dresden in their own ways.

And Justine has been around since book three. If she was infected back then, or her mental issues come into play. A slow burn traitor is more interesting than Carlos or Chandler turning on him.

The only other major turn coat I can see is Listen to Wind being black council. It feels right in the meta story.

 

If we go back to book eleven then it’s probably not listen to wind or ancient mai as the traitor since they were both accounted for during the fight with the spiders. Peabody died so who ever was with him is the traitor but who really knows if there is really only one. Also Lara and Thomas are Venators and maybe that’s part of the reason why he tried to assassinate Etri and maybe Lara might actually know something helpful about the titan.
The peace talks were definitely not done how I thought they would or should have been done. Someone said it made the world feel smaller and I kinda got the same feelings. I’m sure there are a bunch of author reasons he could come up with that explain difference beings not being there but idk it just didn’t feel right. I feel like I heard him mention Drakul in an interview or something at one point and was pretty disappointed we didn’t get to see him.

The only other time I’ve seen this Titan mentioned was in the bombshell short story and she was mentioned as The Empress. Other than that though she kind of just showed up out of no where

 

My point about Dresden's reliability as regards power levels vindicated in a most visceral fashion.

 

Overall, I'm disappointed l. I don't know how much of it comes from the wait, the fact that Skin Game was so much better or that it's only half a book but yeah, disappointed.

The whole titan thing came out of nowhere and is just silly imo. More to the point, we got a major diplomatic event at which no major diplomacy or gambits occurred. The whole Svartalf-White Court-Thomas arc was just crap.

I'll still read Battle Grounds but it's been years, so they should have just published them together in the first place.

E: And the cornerhounds were cool. I don't really care about the Fomor that much, I want to see some more Outsiders. They're the foe that's been bigged up for years and make so much more sense for Battle Grounds.

 

Half way through it at the moment, so I'm not reading the thread yet. But I just have to say, he's really hamming up the "winter mantle influences my primal thoughts" thing. Like...really hamming it up.

And also, I think Butters is Butchers self insert. Only explanation for his "character development" (to be somewhat charitable in my description of it) over the last few books.

 

Fingers crossed this is the start of a toned down Butters! The gadgets and the roller skates or whatever in the last book was almost unbearable.

Ah yes, the Idiot plot.

Ghost Story seems to have been peak pop culture, and I can only imagine negative feedback has led to the lightsaber nerf and almost complete removal of pop culture references. No one arguing about LotR... glorious.

Did I imagine it, or was it hinted that Lara was involved somehow with McCoy?

Whoever the traitor is that we'll supposed least expect... Justine?

It did say his head was shriveled with time so could very well have been Halloween

Grey just flat out saying (in relation to Justine), "You know she's a femme fatale right?" or whatever his words were, seems... too obvious? But then, Justine did manipulate Harry into promising to break Thomas out... I'm with you on this one.

Basically every single time the mantle is mentioned, the urge to bone is brought up. JB is relentless with it!

It also seems like JB can't settle on just exactly what the mantle does. A lot of the time it's JUST "removing limiters" and blunting pain, other times it's running on ice as if it weren't there.

 

Just finished the whole thing.

As a singular book it was kinda unsatisfying. We didn't learn anything about the big plot and there was no resolution to the Thomas assassin think. It also came out of nowhere.

The Harry / McCoy battle was pretty cool, as was the fight with the demon dogs. And it is always nice when Harry smacks people around on his island.

The book also felt less funny than the others, maybe I just grew up and my sense of good literature and fantasy grew as well, but I didn't feel any attachment to any of the characters. Maybe Molly? Maggie, Mister and Mouse for sure. But everyone else was just a name on paper. I also expected the summit to be a bigger deal.

So huge disappointment all around.

As a book in the series, it did its job to remind me whats what in the world, I forgot some of the things in the Dresden World and I think it's annoying as hell that they made out the Carlos/Molly thing to be such a huge deal, considering it was part of SideJobs and not everybody reads it.