1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Flame-freezing charm against dragon fire?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Reiku, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. esran

    esran Professor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    458
    People being burnt by dragonfire during the tri-wizard tournament is strong evidence against the flame-freezing charm being sufficient, given the charm is known to be easy to cast, and would probably be on the Hogwarts ccorriculum. Alternatively, someone might simply need to be very good at casting the flame freezing charm for it to work on hotter flames, and a weaker flame-freezing charm merely dulls the effects of powerful flames.
     
  2. Gabrinth

    Gabrinth Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,582
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    People disregarded a very important post:

    This adds a lot of depth to the question.

    You can't cast a flame-freezing spell on yourself. It freezes flame. It doesn't make you immune to flames.

    So, what flames can be frozen? It might just be that magical flames can't be frozen, and that's a really easy answer, but it's boring as well.

    If we think of floo powder, we find that it changes the properties of the flames it is put into, whether it is lit naturally or through magic, but the fireplace itself has to be connected to the network.

    I'm not sure what that implies, but it implies something different than the basic idea that 'magic fire is different, dur'.
     
  3. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,839
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    People disregarded it because it's not correct. Canon is completely silent on the matter of if the charm is cast on the fire or the person.
     
  4. Dark Syaoran

    Dark Syaoran No. 4 Admin

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,141
    Gender:
    Male
    So I think the answer to the first question is no. Maybe if the Elder Wand is used. Maybe.
     
  5. Gabrinth

    Gabrinth Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,582
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    Ah, I went back and looked at it, and you're correct that it doesn't say specifically.

    Other than being called the 'flame-freezing' charm of course, rather than heat-nullifying or something similar.
     
  6. esran

    esran Professor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    458
    Well it doesn't nullify heat, it freezes flame. So your point is invalid.
    If I have a charm I can cast on a person that makes every pebble that touches that person explode, I'ma call it the pebble exploding charm, okay?
     
  7. viburnum

    viburnum First Year

    Joined:
    May 10, 2011
    Messages:
    38
    If you consider pottermore illustrations canon material then apparently there are two types (or maybe more) of dragon fire: red one and blue one. Though it's unclear if they are really different or just look different.
     
  8. spineyrequiem

    spineyrequiem Squib

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    5
    Personally, I'd say it wouldn't stop a direct blast. While it's true that they could stop a full bonfire, if you've ever lit one you'll know that they take a while to catch (unless some moron's poured petrol on the thing, in which case I hope you're not attached to your eyebrows). It's therefore fairly likely that what the witches and wizards being burnt did was freeze it gradually as it caught.

    Trying to do that against a dragon would mean you got a fraction of a seconds relief and then...

    :fire

    This is slightly off-topic, but I'd disagree with this. After all, if it can stop anything, where does it end? If you're blocking excessive heat, no-one would bother with winter clothes (or, conversely, summer clothes), but we see even the most powerful magic-users in gloves and fluffy hats. If you try to block radiation, you blind yourself (as gamma radiation is just really high-frequency light), and also heat (as that's just slightly less high-frequency light). If you're blocking excessive force, then no-one could be knocked off their feet in a duel by any means except taking the floor out from under them, and we know that isn't how the duels go down. It'd probably also mean you couldn't use a shield charm in flight, as your broom would gaily sail off without you while you freeze in mid-air. Finally, if you wanted to block dangerous gases, you'd die fairly quickly as you used up all your oxygen (although admittedly most people don't have shields up for more than a few seconds).

    There are also things in canon which directly contradict this. For a start, falling would be no danger whatsoever, as protego would stop you hitting with lethal force, when we know that they actually use arresto momentum. There's also that scene towards the end of Deathly Hallows where Snape and McGonnagall are duelling where one of them sends a load of knives at the other (can't remember exactly who, and don't have my book with me).

    I'm of the opinion that shield charms in general only block spells, as those are pretty easy to distinguish from useful effects, and blocking non-magical effects relies on different spells - for instance, if you wanted to stop a fireball you'd either freeze it or send a massive gust of wind its way to redirect it. If nothing else, this makes magical combat far more interesting than 'put up shield, spam shield-breaker charms/unblockable curses till one of you dies'.
     
  9. golan

    golan Temporarily Banhammered DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    567
    Location:
    Central Europe, for now.
    You sure it's no mere imitation if dragon-breath or just a pompous name for some kinda powerful fire-spell or something?
    ____________________________________________
    Probably not and probably the reason why need so many people to subdue a dragon, since to off one, you'd need to simply AK him (AK is unblockable by any spell and an Instagib-spell no matter, where it hits the victim).
     
  10. Jeram

    Jeram Elder of Zion ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    143
    High Score:
    1756
    Dude. MAGIC. It makes sense to have a shielding charm to block harmful radiation and not benign radiation.
     
  11. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,511
    Location:
    One of the Shires
    High Score:
    9,373
    You're overthinking things. Protego can protect against all of that because it's literally the concept of protection in spell form. Magic is flexible and can be adjusted on the fly by a wizard with sufficient skill.

    Harry uses Protego as a shield against spells, against summoning, against legilimency and to act as a barrier between Ron and Hermione that physically pushes them back. The Patronus Charm can double as a messenger.

    Magic is not science. You don't need to specifically tailor each spell to each situation.
     
  12. golan

    golan Temporarily Banhammered DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    567
    Location:
    Central Europe, for now.
    In canon, AK is an exception, it can not be blocked by anything magic except this Lily's "power of love" asspull.
     
  13. esran

    esran Professor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    458
    Or, perhaps, other ways of blocking the AK simply haven't been discovered yey.
     
  14. Starfox5

    Starfox5 Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    247
    You can block AKs with solid objects. Dumbledore did it in the Atrium, if I recall correctly, when he banished or summoned the remains of a statue between Harry and Voldemort.
     
  15. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,511
    Location:
    One of the Shires
    High Score:
    9,373
    Your point? The Killing Curse is the concept of death in a spell. Death is inevitable, therefore it can't be stopped by regular magic.

    Harry and Lily's sacrifices were able to stop Voldemort from harming people, Killing Curse included, because they had accepted death and went to it willingly in order to protect others. It's the concept of love, sacrifice and protection all tied together and, as Dumbledore once said, "[love] is a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death..."
     
  16. golan

    golan Temporarily Banhammered DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    567
    Location:
    Central Europe, for now.
    I still call asspull. How is it, that no-one else did discover something like that?!
     
Loading...