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General Impressions (Ghost Story Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Likely his part in the series is going to increase from here on. He may even act as a darker replacement for Michael, at least as far as swordsmanship goes. I doubt he'd get a Sword, though he seems to be somewhat attached to them, which introduces conflict into his character.

    1) Aftermath clearly maps out Murphy's thought processes in regards to the Swords.

    2) Murphy still believed Dresden was alive, so she was merely a caretaker for the real person tasked with giving them out.

    Sometimes the good guy's plan doesn't work out as intended. Other than that though, this book has established a lot of background material that will likely be important in later books.

    He's the Blackstaff and Senior Councilmember for one of the most powerful organisations in the world. In the wake of having a superpower on the level with the former Soviet Union having just been annihilated. Chances are he hasn't had enough time to do much.

    Thomas always gets short changed. Have you not been reading this series?

    Agreed. I liked Butter's growth in this book and Morty was well written for the parts of it he wasn't tied up/being tortured.
     
  2. Khazad-Dumb

    Khazad-Dumb Loves the Gay Porn DLP Supporter

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    Funny thought that crossed my mind: We got more proof that Mister is more than he appears.

    Things that physically touched Harry: Lea, Mort, ghost dusted walls, Sir Stuart, and Mister.

    What do they all [with the exception of Mister] have in common? They're all either part spirit or ectomancers.

    And back in Changes, there was that scene where Lea has put Martin and Susan to sleep and strokes Mister while she waited for Harry to get back. Snuck in there is a throwaway line along the lines of "Mister had the same eyes as Lea".

    Coincidence? or Tricksy LittleChicago?
     
  3. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    So I just finished it and I have to say I loved this book, it is easily my one of if not my favorite book of the series and seems to continue Butchers trend of improving with every book. Most of what I could say about it has been covered so extensively already in the thread I don't see much point in rehashing it. A few things though I was extremely pleased at the fact that Dresden got to see all the consequences of his actions, intended or not. It was a needed event and I loved the way Butcher handled it. I also loved the fact that the Guardian Angels remarks directed at the Carpenter house was not figurative and they have what amounts to the freaking angel Secret Service watching over them 24/7. It does make me question though how anything managed to ever attack the Carpenter house if those angels were there though, were they a perk of Micheal's "retirement?" Finally I loved the ending and already feeling withdrawal pains for Cold Days. Seeing Harry in full Winter Knight mode not just dancing around it with Mab is something I have been waiting for since Summer Knight and Vashs fanfic which was the very first time I saw the idea put to text.

    Edit: Didn't Sir Stuart spell out fairly plainly that every single cat could see and interact with spirits and that they just didn't really care?
     
  4. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Chief Warlock

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    Yep


    “And dogs,” Sir Stuart added. “Maybe one in ten of them seem to have a talent for sensing us. Probably why they’re always barking.”
    “What about cats?” I asked. Mister had fled the living room upon the arrival of other people and wasn’t in sight.
    “Of course cats,” Sir Stuart said, his voice faintly amused. “As far as I can tell, all cats. But they aren’t terribly impressed with the fact that we’re dead and still present. One rarely gets a reaction from them.”
     
  5. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    That is one thing that really bugged me; it's way too obvious of a solution for it to not have occurred to either one of them in all the years since Blood Rites. It needs a bit more justification, like saying that they'd thought of it a while ago, but Justine hadn't recovered enough to be regularly fed upon again and/or Thomas wouldn't go along with the plan because he was too scared of over-eating on Justine again.

    Agreed, I pegged the Fomor as Deep One expies within minutes of their introduction. I was a little disappointed that they didn't have a bigger role in the story, but that's probably just because I'm enough of a Cthulhu Mythos fan to like the idea of seeing more Lovecraftian elements in the Dresdenverse.

    Of course, odds are pretty good they'll play a bigger role in subsequent books; they're definitely being built up as new baddies that need to be dealt with.
     
  6. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    And Mister's 15 as of Ghost Story...

    Re: Thomas and Justine, Thomas was on a strict no-full-feeding diet up until Turn Coat, and since he wasn't going to restore the true-love-sex protection, Justine wasn't going to nuke the advantage that had gotten her so deep within the White Court. And after that he was probably refusing to munch on Justine due to guilt over the last time that happened, so again, not going to nuke her advantage until she was sure Thomas was ready to screw it back into place. She didn't force the issue, probably hoping he'd work through it on his own, until he went on his hunger strike, at which point the risk of it not working and leaving her without her protection faded next to the greater concern of Thomas' starvation.

    As for Fomori, they were used in the Werewolf: the Apocalypse as humans infected with spirits of corruption that do shit like spew flesh-eating worms on their enemies, but apparently their original source is Irish Mythology. When the first humans returned to Ireland after the Biblical flood, the Fomorians were already there - whether the Fomorians were actually human is up in the air, with some stories having them descendents of Noah via Ham, and others having them as vaguely human shaped monsters:

    Outside of legends, the name apparently devolved until it referred to anything bad that came from the sea - pirates, raiders, sea monsters, etcetera. Tracking etymology is tricky as fuck, but there's a few maybe-roots I can see - Muir: Sea. Mór: Great. Mahr: Phantom. Fomuir: Land near the sea.

    So yeah. Could be Irish Innsmouth. Could be sea monsters. Could be to the Fae what neanderthals are to us. Or it just could be some group of ugly underwater fucks that are using the name for shits and giggles. Too soon to tell.
     
  7. Rainstorm

    Rainstorm Fourth Year

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    I really enjoyed this book. There was still the action and drama that I enjoy but it was tempered by Harry catching his breath and taking a much needed moment to look over his actions of the last book. It was also interesting to watch how the characters developed without Harry's presence (was not expecting Murphy to turn dark avenger for example). The sheer number of geek related references did start to seem rather gratuitous after a while though.

    If nothing else, I could really feel the effect of the last book on the world. Harry's old house becoming a jail/command centre staffed by his lot, the Einherjar and Marcone was a massive surprise and it was good to see the effects of a massive power vacuum.

    Also, did anyone else notice the line from Demonreach at the end of the book? "Mab gave you breath. Here provided nourishment. The parasite maintained the flow of blood."

    I can only think of one thing relating to Harry that could count as a parasite.
     
  8. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    When it comes to Thomas and Justine; the fact that removing-and-reapplying the protection didn't occur until Ghost Story is certainly justifiable with a bit of a thinking, I just would have preferred having some of that justification be mentioned in the book itself instead of requiring the reader to put it all together themselves.
     
  9. Sol

    Sol High Inquisitor

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    Lazy. :p

    I thought the Thomas issue was handled well. We have enough emo vampire angst in fiction. Take that stuff offscreen, thx.
     
  10. Thorn

    Thorn Professor

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  11. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    And where exactly would you have included him? As multiple people have said, yes some characters were left out or given smaller parts than normal. It was going to happen unless the book was going to be 4 or 5 times the normal size.
     
  12. Blazzano

    Blazzano Unspeakable

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    There's been an important change in Harry's character - arguably the most important in the entire series so far. Though we don't know how extensively Butcher will reference it in future books. It's a psychological change, brought on by the knowledge that Dresden gained in the book. Which I suppose is fitting for a book that's about Harry mulling over his own life.

    Put simply, Harry knows a hell of a lot more about the nature of power, and how to use it.

    1. He knows now about how important his presence was to the city of Chicago; he knows that any number of creatures and enemies could be kept back simply through their fear of him.

    2. He now has a much greater understanding about how for some supernatural entities, the opposite is true. Certain wizards and creatures have been keen on building and preparing Dresden's power, while intending to eventually have that power working for them.

    3. He knows a lot more about the consequences of applying power, e.g. how the destruction of the Red Court had extensive, global effects.

    4. At the very end, he learns that he is not Mab's puppet - that even in the light of the Winter Knight's oath, he can still assert himself if his will remains strong.

    He knew a little bit about nos. 1, 2, and 3 before, of course, but this is the first time that he's really digested that knowledge. And that may make all the difference. If he starts applying his power consciously and proactively (and intelligently!), instead of merely reacting to threats, hoo boy.
     
  13. Qazi

    Qazi Squib

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    In Ghost Story, Lea says,
    So, Fomorians aren't just the Irish mythcycle ones. Loads of disparate myths have rallied to that one banner.
    For example in Aftermath, the Fomorian we saw was... well, to be blunt: that particular Fomor was a classic Innsmouth-look style Deep One of Dagon. The description wasn't very ambiguous.
    The master of the Fomorian servitor in Ghost Story was Cantrev Lord Omogh. Which as far as Google is concerned just throws up something about ancient Welsh kingdoms.

    Butcher has set up this Fomor faction to be quite the curveball. He can go fucking crazy on what sources he wants to draw from with that kind of backstory; so long as it is from a country with a coast.
     
  14. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Which narrows it down to just about all of them, considering how the number of countries/cultures that have risen/died on the coasts of the world.
     
  15. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    On the topic of the Christian influences, I wonder if, given the interaction between Mouse and Uriel, maybe Butcher is going to go for a sort of unified religious theory. Where all the world religions, or at least the monotheistic ones, are just variations on the same theme. It could be an interesting way for him to advance the storyline without appearing too fundamentalist crazy.
     
  16. Agayek

    Agayek Dimensional Trunk DLP Supporter

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    Considering the primary monotheistic religions all worship the same god, and they freely acknowledge that, that isn't exactly much of a stretch.

    Christianity, Judaism and Islam are the only monotheistic religions with any sort of strong following, and they're all derived from Judaism and the Abrahamic God.
     
  17. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Well, you can take it further than the Abrahamic religions. My understanding of Hinduism is quite basic but at a basic level can you not all the deities are aspects of Brahman? So that could tie into a Unified Religious Theory. And with Buddhism you could say that if, in Butcher's canon God represents a Greater Truth, you could equate that with Enlightenment.

    So there you have the 5 major world religions covered.
     
  18. Nae

    Nae The Violent

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    Even Hindus don't know the basic aspects of Hinduism. Trying to understand Hinduism is a headache inducing task, take that from someone who lives in India. I'm not a hindu, but I know a good deal about it, and it's filled with contradictions over contradictions.

    And Buddhism has no God, so I assume you were suggesting the ultimate 'enlightement' in Buddhism is a metaphor for God.

    But yeah, I get what you're trying to say. There is only one God, and He is worshiped in different religions by different names et cetra. Thing is, this plot line would've been more believable if he hadn't already adopter Christian stuff like angels as ambassadors of the 'true God'. By doing this, it's sort of already implied that the God in the books is, in fact, the Abrahamic God.
     
  19. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    For Buddhism I was more suggesting that God is a metaphor for the Ultimate Truth, for which Enlightenment would also be a metaphor ;)

    But the other major religions all have in some way, supernatural beings who are subservient to the God/Truth...admittedly in Buddhism its more wooly, but Tibetan buddhism certainly includes things that, in English, are referred to as Demons which are both good and bad.
     
  20. MattSilver

    MattSilver The Traveller

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    This book. Oh my fucking god. Allow me to fanboy for a bit, because damn, I just finished, after reading every other book and all the side stories over the course of the past two weeks. It's like a culmination of awesome, and I can't wait for some more. Now, to stray thoughts:

    - My favourite part of the book was the Harry/Molly relationship building. I'm a horribly biased shipper for those two, and even if I wasn't, the character development for the both of them would've been awesome enough. The scene in the Denny's was one of my favourites: Molly completely countering Harry's reasonings for not wanting to go into a relationship with her, and combine that with the ultimate reveal and the "Molls" thing, I mean, come on. I'm really thinking Butcher will actually head down that ship's path, but even if he doesn't, what we got here was enough even in a platonic way. Completely and utterly awesome. That, and I'm glad that Molly went up a bit in badass scale, and didn't end up where I feared she would by the end of Changes (Held by the White Court).

    - The circumstances behind Harry's death were epic. It made everything else in the book carry this sense of irony, and when I reread later, I think I'll find more, but right now: Harry thinking about Kincaid being in town to kill him and go comfort Murphy, Lea's comments about the killer... Good times. That a Fallen manipulated Harry into it - which in turn made Molly into what she was now - was a damn good tease. No ideas on who it could be, but something tells me it's not Lash, at least. Lasciel, maybe, but not Lash. Difference.

    - My other favouritest part of the book were the callbacks to everything else. The main book series rewards those who read the side stories. Nick Christian, the Astors, Forthill's secret room, the Fomor (Both Marcone's and Murphy's stories), and even something as tiny as Bob mentioning the time Molly had acid chew through one of her shirts in Day Off. The flashback to life under Justin's tutelage, the thoughts about Elaine and the confrontation with He Who Walks From Behind were just great. Justin was nothing like how I pictured, but in a good way: He shouldn't have appeared to be a monster right away, and he didn't feel much like it in the first flashback, maybe because of Dresden's age at the time or the fact he desperately wanted his father figure. Either way, good shit.

    And a ton of other stray thoughts about how things are developing, but at the sake of going on too long I'll just sorta go with it: Maggie being so nearby felt strange to me (And I'm wondering what'll happen when Dresden starts doing his own thing again in Chicago with her so close), but being with Mouse and the Carpenters felt right, Butters and Bob were a great odd couple, happy to see Mister alive and well, the book raised Morty up in my eyes, Thomas... Not much Thomas unfortunately, but hey, Justine and Mara was win, so yeah, didn't see Corpsetaker's return coming (Figured Lady Shade was Kumori at first) and finally, looking forward to seeing other updates, especially White Council stuff.

    I wonder about some of the new characters, though. I doubt we'll see Sir Stuart again, but I really liked Fitz, was intrigued by Felicia and thought that Daniel Carpenter was a nice addition (Though he's not a new character, we haven't got much of him other than being the eldest son and being affected by the phages in Proven Guilty), because hey, his parents are Michael and Charity, and his sister's now a illusion-toting badass. He can step up too, I don't mind. But yeah, hoping for more Fitz and Felicia. It's cool that Butcher can introduce a new character or two this late and make me want to see them again alongside my favourites.

    On the two issues everyone's been talking about in this thread, I will say that yeah, there are quite a few more pop culture references, but the osmosis of hanging out with Molly and the Alphas for years might've made Harry a bit more geeky, though he was always a bit of a geek. Reading the books in a row like I have has shown me that Dresden's become more and more snarky, I think the word would be, in his narration - something that could be chalked up to the character's fraying sanity or Butcher falling back on sarcastic lines and stuff because it's one of his strengths.

    On the Christian thing, well, meh. That the book's a fantasy world with all kinds of powerful beings makes it cool to me that a big Capital-G God would exist, and I don't think Butcher's really shoving anything down my throat - it's not like we're getting thinly veiled "creation vs evolution" arguments or anything like that. Christianity is all about faith and stuff, and faith is a type of magic in the story, so it's part of the ongoing mythos of the Dresden Files. I'm not really affected or anything - it's not offending me, I don't exactly agree with it all but I can agree with how it works for the story and the characters. Besides, Uriel is cool.

    Okay, fanboy over.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
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