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Grade Results in HP

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Reign, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. JWH

    JWH Unspeakable

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    Imagine the scene. On one side, Albus Dumbledore, master Occlumens/legilimens. One the other, Harry Potter, who's pretty much a pussy when it comes to Dumbledore. (Keep in mind : there's no Godfather left to kill to get him angry enough to actually stand up to those twinkling eyes.)

    Who wins ?

    On topic : I guess I agree that final exams count for 100% of final grade (that's what we have in France for our end-of-secondary-education exam, "le bac"), and the kids keep doing their homework cause they can't be arsed to defy authority. Path of less resistance and all. Or to use stereotypes : Hufflepuff do it because they're hardworking, Slytherins (actual Slytherins, not the morons JKR wrote about) do it because they know it's more profitable in the long run, Ravenclaw because the bastards enjoy it.
    That leaves Gryffindors. I have no explanation for them, apart from feeling honour-bound to do their homework, but it's a little far-fetched. Well in Ron's case, he's afraid of his whore of a mother's howlers, I guess. Hermione is a special case, and Harry's just conforming.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  2. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Yeah, yeah, I know. That makes the whole point moot anyway, since Harry would never do all that, so it wouldn't even get to that point. I just got that idea that he had actually quite a bit to bargain with, and that Snape, for example, in the end only has that degree of authority over Harry because Harry allows him to have it.

    I guess I'd have liked to see Harry realise that, and follow through with it, just once.

    Ignore my random thread derailing. And you're right on the McGonagall issue, Taure.
     
  3. Methene

    Methene Auror

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    Of course, naturally Filch could get his chains out of the closet and proceed to torture the student population that has failed in to hand the latest Potion Assignment.

    That would be an excellent way to motivate students to do homework, besides the classic "it's for their own good."

    Getting back to the curriculum issue, there is a point that has not been brought up. It seems that, in Hogwarts, teachers are able to set their own curriculum, more or less. This system would be advantageous, if and only if, the teachers were truly brilliant, talented witches or wizards.

    Considering the gross incompetence of the Hogwarts teacher body, I think the Ministry should set the curriculum on a daily basis. Can't trust the idiots to even assign proper homework.

    Let's do a small analysis, based by subject.

    Transfiguration: Probably a decent teacher, benefits from teaching her own stuff, I presume.

    Charms: Flitwick is talented from what we know of him (duelling champion and all that) and he is the Head of Ravenclaw, thus more inclined to teaching good, useful things.

    Do not be carried away in a wave of euphoria, however, for the rest shall follow:

    History of Magic: crap in what I consider a useful subject for anyone going into Politics at the Ministry of Magic. The Ministry, in a rare moment of inter-race peace should ask the Catholic Church to exorcise Binns, his friends and his grandmother.

    Potions: While Snape may be a talented individual, the man has issues which do not impact too well on his teaching.

    Defence against the Dark Arts: Quirrel was crap, Lockhart even more so, Lupin should curl up and slit his wrists after his monthly transformation. Ironically enough, the only half decent teacher was a Death Eater.
     
  4. vlad

    vlad Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    Nah - they don't set their own curriculum. Not in any way that matters, at least.

    Everything is geared towards OWLS, and then NEWTS. There is an expectation of what the students will know by their 5th/7th year, and it is up to the school to make sure they know it. The professors have the luxury of keeping the same pupils throughout their entire schooling, so there's no question of what they didn't learn the year before or what the previous teacher excelled in (except in DADA, but that's an exception, not the rule).

    So yeah, whether they learn to make a pineapple dance before or after they turn a mouse into a teacup, or if they learn one variant of a charm or another is up to the teacher. But at the end of the day, they're following a pretty standard curriculum.

    As to homework... Canon!Harry does his homework because he's scared shitless of Hermione's incessant bitching, and as someone who spent eleven years being neglected, he just wants the teachers to like him, or at least have no reason to come after him. I gather canon!Harry actually doesn't mind it, and it's more that he's desperate for Ron's friendship that causes him to accept blowing off homework. As time goes on, this attitude has already been engrained into him.

    Badass!Harry does his homework for the same reasons that Tom Riddle and Albus Dumbledore did theirs, many moons ago.
     
  5. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    On the subject of a Hogwarts curriculum, here is an idea for the Charms curriculum I came up with a while back:


    First off, here is the now-complete list of all sub-divisions of charms:

    Charms

    Movement Charms
    All charms that move objects. Levitation, summoning, banishing, Waddiwassi, Oppugno, Mobili-X and Locomotor-X, etc.

    Everyday Charms
    Cleaning, drying, warming, repairing, constructing, packing, tidying, useful spells like bed-making spells, shoelace tying spells, spells for drawing curtains etc.

    Food charms
    All charms relating to food and drink. Refilling charm, cooking charms, Aguamenti, the wine conjuring spell etc.

    Animation Charms
    Charms that make things move as if they were alive.

    Area effect Charms
    All Charms that are what we would think of as wards. Muggle repelling charm, property lines, age lines, alarm charms etc.

    Influence Charms
    All Charms that influence the senses or mind. Obliviation, Confundment, supersensory charms, cheering charms, Disillusionment.

    Conjuring Charms
    All charms that conjure objects. Avis, etc.

    Amplification Charms
    Making things bigger and smaller: Engorgio and Reducio (mass), Sonorus and Silencio (sound), Lumos and Nox (light) Undetectable Extension Charm (space) etc.

    Linking Charms
    Stuff that links things together like the Protean charm, Portkeys etc.

    Abstract Charms
    Charming non-physical things e.g. Taboo - placing a charm on a word etc.

    Basic Healing Charms
    Simple healing charms that need non-expert knowledge. Episkey, Anapeo, etc.

    Revealing Charms
    Wide definition of "revealing". Opening and locking charms, the spell Hermione used on the HBP Potion book, Homenum Revelio, stealth sensoring spells etc.

    Atmospheric Charms
    All Charms that affect the air/climate. Atmospheric charms, Bubble-head charm, drought charm etc.

    Cancelling Charms
    Charms that stop other charms. Finite Incantatum etc.

    Fire/temperature Charms
    All charms dealing with heat. Incendio, Bluebell flames, flagrate, flame-freezing charm, extinguishing charm, warming charm, freezing charm, etc. Considered very important in wizarding tradition, possibly due to Witch burnings.

    Object charms
    All charms that change the properties of objects. Unbreakable charms, strengthening charms, feather-light charms, sticking charms, duplication etc.

    Destruction charms
    All Charms that remove matter, either by vanishing, blasting or explosion. Defodio, Deprimo, Reducto, Confringo, Diffindo, Expulso etc.


    As well as the above practical topics, I should imagine that the following topics would be learned:

    Introduction to Charms
    Very simple stuff like "What is a Charm". This would only really be the first lesson of first year.

    Basic Spellcasting Theory
    The importance of the two main components of spells: incantations and wand movements. One or two lessons.

    Intermediate Spellcasting Theory
    Looking at stuff like influencing the outcome of a Charm to get it to vary a bit from it's normal behavior, personalising them as per my Spellcasting Theory.

    Advanced Spellcasting Theory
    The theory behind complex charming: linking and combining charms together, stuff like charming objects, places, ideas, etc.

    Non-verbal casting
    Not taught, just expected after 6th year.

    There is some overlap between some of the sub-divisions, but this is inevitable, as any one charm can be used in a variety of ways.

    Now, that seems like a lot of fields to be learned, but most of the fields would only have 5-15 charms in each, with a few exceptions (Everyday Charms particularly). In addition, there needs to be some theory learned. As well as this, level of difficulty has to be considered: you cannot learn all movement charms at once, for example, because some are much harder than others. Thus, the Charms syllabus is going to be a bit cluttered, but there's not much we can do about that without being extraordinary vague.

    So, here goes:

    First Year
    Introduction to Charms, Basic Spellcasting Theory, Basic Movement, Basic Revealing, Basic Animation, Basic Cancelling, Basic Amplification (Light).
    Second Year
    Intermediate Movement, Intermediate Animation, Basic Object, Fire.
    Third Year
    Advanced Revealing, Basic Everyday, Basic Conjuring.
    Fourth Year
    Advanced Movement, Intermediate Amplification (sound, mass, etc.), Basic Influence (Cheering Charm), Basic Destruction.
    Fifth Year
    Intermediate Spellcasting Theory, Advanced Animation, Advanced Canceling, Advanced Everyday, Atmospheric.
    Sixth Year
    Non-verbal casting, Advanced Object, Intermediate Destruction, Basic Healing, Basic Area effect, Linking, Intermediate Conjuration, Food Charms.
    Seventh Year
    Advanced Spellcasting Theory, Advanced Amplification (space and other advanced topics), Advanced Influence, Advanced Destruction, Advanced Conjuration, Advanced Area effect, Abstract.

    Notice that some branches are split into Basic, Intermediate and Advanced, some into just Basic and Advanced, and some not split at all. It looks like they learn a lot each year, but remember that the topics are all split up over the years into difficulty levels, so they're continuously building on previous knowledge, rather than having to start from scratch each time. The N.E.W.T. years are especially packed, but it's important to remember that A) N.E.W.T.s are supposed to be very hard work and B) Most of the topics are advanced studies of topics they've previously touched upon.
     
  6. thapagan

    thapagan High Inquisitor

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    I always wondered about the bad DADA teacher vs the OWL & NEWT test back story. I think we all can agree that OWLS & NEWTS are harder then say a beginners driving exam, But how hard are they? Are they exit exams to show compantency, or tough placement exams that determine your future. Other the the career interview, we don't get a idea of how "life changing" are the exams.

    As my sister once said about the varying state medical board exams (she took eight, three each in two states and two in another) they don't make the "P"
    (passed) any bigger. She skipped the MCAT, ( U.S. based private exam) that determines which medical school you can get into, which for many future doctors in the U.S. is the crunch time test.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2008
  7. psihary

    psihary Groundskeeper

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    Ah, it's nice to see people putting some effort for creating a more... detailed... world... to bring the reader fully into their story... talking about Mathene's "Of Blacks and Malfoys, an Encyclopaedia" and now Taure with the Charms' curriculum.

    I'm quite interest in reading stories where the authors have put some effort in his explanations over the magical theory while writing the quite usual summer training(post OoTP stories) given by auror X. Simple stuff like "What is magic" and "Why you, Harry, are obviously powerful since you do magic without wand movements, braking the rules for spell casting...".

    So, anyone who can recommend some good stories with magic theory, which are not necessary taking place at the summer after OoTP or feature powerful kids?
     
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