Citrus

Ugh. Brain fart. Yeah, it was your post. I meant that Seratin bringing up PRs wasn't in the best interest of the town imo.

 

First Offical Vote Count

Citrus (2): His fluffiness (59), Seratin (87)
His fluffiness (2): Citrus (76), Snowvon (124)
Newcomb (2): Vira (48), ScottPress (112)
Jan (1): Zenzao (26)
Seratin (1): weiyaoli (137)
Snowvon (1): Jan (3)
Vira (1): blab (68)

Accurate as of Post 141. Majority Lynch is 7.

All further Vote must follow the format:

Vote Name

Because of all the silly rainbows you people do.

 

On the off-chance that anyone's interested in my reads, as opposed to blindly sponging onto Vira's bullshit scumread on me, I thought I'd give some opinions on how this game has gone so far: (these are in no particular order; the order is at the bottom)

Zenzao -

First of all, the push against his (non) RVS Snowvon vote is bad. Zenzao explained what he was doing, and it even makes sense. Here is Snowvon's first post in Narutomafia (post #2), and here's his first post in this game (post #2). Snowvon was scum in Narutomafia. That's not RVS, that's basically the only thing Z had to go on to place that vote. Does it make Snow scum? Absolutely not. Does it make Z towny? Yes.

Big thoughts and conclusions post here. Considering the amount of filler in this post, it's funny that he calls out so much of it from others. I'm not a big fan of the "big recap of what happened" - > "conclusions" format. You're missing the "why." That's kinda scummy.

This post feels more like the Zenzao I remember from Narutomafia when he was going back and forth with MathBlade. Kinda testy, but in a good way? Especially this part. "feels like an accusation to me." That's genuine, I think.

weiyaoli -

I think this is a pretty towny first post. Paying attention to why a player is focused on one player seemingly when another is in the same range is a towny mindset. The result is wrong (see Zenzao's entry) but the process is towny.

I like posts like this a lot. He's delving into the situation in detail, and trying to draw conclusions from it. Mindset here seems very town to me. Major points for asking me why I asked those three people specifically - see, from a town mindset, that was the interesting part.

Snowvon -

I liked Snowvon's early posts when I first read them, but on re-reading I'm seeing stuff like this as a bit reach-y. Calling out Scott for being third on a wagon, and using the same color as Jan... I'm torn. It's reach-y, but I don't think scum would think they could realistically get a mislynch this early, therefore I find this kind of inquisitiveness to be towny. I also like the follow-up here. Scum don't really have an incentive to investigate like this, and though I believe Snow could fake this pretty easily, on balance it's a towny thing to do.

I have similar feelings about this post. I think someone in Narutomafia said that it was alignment indicative when Snow seems to be chummy, making friends, joking around, etc, but for the life of me I can't remember if they said it was scum or town for Snow. Regardless, I remembered it when Snow made this post. Someone with Snow meta chime in here?

Also answering Citrus here, and here. I light townread Snowvon last game for stuff like this - giving thoughts, opinions, ideas while not going in depth at all - and as the game progressed this got less and less defensible and then I (correctly) lynched him for it. I'm basically at the same spot now - light townread, but this level of depth as the game gets further along automatically would turn into a scumread.

Snow, I don't even care if you're scum. I'm keeping you around until at least Day 3 because you make me laugh.

his fluffiness -

I don't like his opening post. Calling people "defensive" is something I think is easy for scum to do. As I've found this game, it's a frustrating pitch to get lobbed your way, because you either don't swing and then you're "being evasive," or you swing back and now you're just "even more defensive." Being defensive is only a scumtell when it's wildly out of proportion to the level of pressure on you, combined with defending yourself at the expense of gamesolving. As opening posts go, it's not my cup of tea.

When you combine that first post with the next one saying, basically, "hey anyone find blab's first post fishy?", the 1st and 2nd post kind of reinforce each other as this being a scumsided opening.

HF's second response to Citrus's hypothetical doesn't seem as damning to me as it does to Citrus, but that's not to say it looks good, either. I'm primarily interested in why HF is so fixated on how the question is designed to make him look, rather than either brushing it off as a random hypothetical or engaging Citrus and trying to discern the reasoning behind the question.

And here. Like, the question is not impossible answer at all. You could just say, "eh, I'd hammer Snowvon for Reasons." This early in the game, why the hell not? It wouldn't be a good answer, but it seems like the towny thing to do is just to shrug it off, not get super-focused on how it's a question designed to make you look bad. Why do you care so much how you look? I don't care how I look.

blab -

Now that we've interacted about it, I actually like this opening post a lot more. Knowing blab has that meta with Snowvon makes this a pretty solid reaction test, which I believe blab indicated that Snow passed (?), so, useful info.

I like the poke and prod of Seratin here. This brings up several good points that I've felt in regards to Seratin, and I give blab townpoints for thinking along the same lines I'm thinking here.

Rubicon -

I'm townreading Rubicon for this post. Pretty sure I've explained why before, but short version, focusing on the intent behind questions as opposed to the results or answers is towny. Town is more interested in the "why" (because the most reliable way to read people is to understand their mindset), scum are interested in the "what" (they don't care what anyone's mindset is as long as they get a mislynch.)

Citrus -

I've gone over Citrus before. I think there's like a 30% chance he made a really smooth pocket attempt on me as scum, after a TMI slip (that's Too Much Information for whomever asked, before), and a 70% chance he legitimately picked up a townslip from me. I don't really see the + wolf EV in calling out my townslip and making me harder to lynch. I think the HF "trap question" thing was a designed play, but I don't think it's a scummy one. The overall focus of that play was why HF reacted the way he did, not what the answer was. Towny mindset.

Vira -

Vira's readwall looked meh when I read it the first time, gave me vague bad feelings when I read it the second, and now that I read it a third time I'm pretty sure it gave me cancer. The townreads are based mostly on air, and her comment about me...

... is flat-out lying. At that point in the thread, I a) hadn't apologized for anything and still haven't (my tone was apologetic, but you're the one who likes parsing exact wording, so tell me where I apologized?), b) had only "defended" Scott by pointing out what I saw as a flaw in Jan and Snow's reasoning for calling him scummy based on personal experience, and had townread Rubicon and scumread Citrus and gave very clear reasons for those two.

Basically every word of that attack on me is just wrong. I find it really unlikely that Vira's giving an honest read on me here. I know it's hard to be objective when you're trying to come up with an opinion on someone who's actively attacking you, but I've read this readwall post like 3 or 4 times now and I just can't see this part as anything other than opportunistic.

Combine that with the ways she townreads people in that post. "Snowvon: is deducing and asking questions, seem alright." "Fluff: townish, asking logical questions about inconsistencies, kind of in the background." "Wei: asking questions, pretty towny."

MFW Vira posted that readwall.

I've already gone over why I feel the follow-up push was bad.

Then this post. Telling me to choose a side and not fence-sit with Citrus. Scummy mindset - invested in the outcome (where I land on Citrus) instead of how I'm getting there (not giving credit to my genuine and thought-out confusion with Citrus).

Seratin -

Wolfy first post. "Ooh, look how long the thread is! Here's something weird about Citrus and Newcomb, with the caveat that I don't know their playstyles, giving me an airtight excuse to randomly change my mind later."

From the same post:

Quite rightly, Citrus points out that you really shouldn't be asking this kind of question if you're town. Establishing how you think PR should play just makes them easier for wolves to find.

Citrus asks, "why would you ask that"? Seratin's response:

Yeah, and when you wave around a loaded gun in a bank, people also react hard. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Seratin, have people's reactions to this question given you insight into them? What reads have you gleaned from asking this question? Do you think your question has made it easier or harder for wolves to PR hunt?

And then, when someone asks a version of this question ("What did Citrus's reaction tell you?"), he answered with this. It's a bunch of words, but when you really boil it down to the essentials, it's "Citrus is uncomfortable with the attention and tried shifting it onto me." Which is like, nonsensical. Citrus blew up at Seratin because Seratin asked a mafiasided question. That's a totally understandable reaction. I stand by my questions in the paragraph above, Seratin.

I asked a question of Seratin - I basically asked Seratin, HF, and Vira about their thoughts on the other two. Seratin just goes for it. Gives answers. The answers are very wishy-washy. Does not attempt to engage me, at all, about the intent behind my question, like why those 3 players, what I hope to get out of it, nothing.

Also, this post. If Vira and Seratin are scum together without daychat, this is signaling her to act a certain way. It's not saying anything about her alignment, it's like, a warning. I will also note this post. Echo each other much? In fact, let's put them side by side:

That feeling when you realize you've been copying each other's notes in scumchat.

Have you two been bad wolves?

Jan -

I'm once again feeling a bit uneasy about Jan. His questions are good, and I like the way he's been prodding people. I like his reactions, too - especially the frustration he showed here when I screwed up his interaction with Scott and prevented him from getting a good read. That felt towny.

This post also feels like a town mindset - inquisitive, wants to know if things add up.

ScottPress -

I'm pretty confident he's town and we're never lynching him today. See my post here, and then his reaction here. Reasoning: if Scott is scum, then he knows I'm town, and from that perspective my post to him should be read as pretty threatening. Calling him frozen, implying that a similar player got almost lynched doing what he's doing, pressuring him to come out with reads. Scum!Scott would know I'm town and would do something. Come at me, make a joke, deflect, put out reads, anything. Instead he goes, "fuck off, I'll speak up when I have something to say."

I mean that's just incredibly towny. Someone would need a hero case against him to make me vote for Scott today.

Seriously? Fine.

Read wall:

ScottPress
Citrus
weiyaoli
Rubicon
blab
Zenzao
Jan
Snowvon
his fluffiness
Vira
Seratin

Vote: Seratin

 

Whilst you're around Newcomb, what does TMI stand for?

 

Read the Citrus entry in the long post above.

TMI - Too much information.

Wolves know who the town players are. Sometimes they will slip up and talk to town like they *know* they're town rather than talking to them like an unknown quantity. That's a TMI-slip.

 

That townread on Scott looks weak and putting him as your strongest townread looks weird.

(laughing @ the mod dragging Newcomb and Fluff for voting like scrubs)

 

Seriously? It's the strongest read I've had in both games. I feel really confident about it. Where in my reasoning am I wrong?

---------- Post automerged at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------

Also, any reaction to my Vira/Seratin case? Thoughts on my more null reads? Let's get into some nitty-gritty, here, Snow.

 

I wasn't paying attention last game because I didn't care about alignments.

I didn't say it was wrong. Just that having a top townread based on one thing looks ???.

---------- Post automerged at 16:44 ---------- Previous post was at 16:43 ----------

Sorry, I just scanned your wall and Scott was the first thing to jump at me. I'm actually watching Netflix with some friends.

We can talk later.

 

That was the one thing I chose to highlight, because to me it seems like a slam-dunk - I just can't wrap my head around how scum!Scott makes that post to me when he knows he's talking with town!Newcomb who's knocking on his front door like that.

Haven't you ever read just that one post from someone, and you're like, "yeah, town."? That's how I feel about Scott. I'm open to recalibrating tomorrow based on new evidence, but like I said in my long post, I'm basically never voting for him today, which pretty much by default makes him my top town.

---------- Post automerged at 01:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

Great, I look forward to it.

 

I agree, the reasoning for your Scott read is weak. Not just because it's based on one small thing, but because you're saying he'd feel threatened by your post #90.

If anything, you go out of your way in that post to avoid threatening him. You point out that he's fence-sitting. You then spend a paragraph talking about how that actually makes him town. You compare him to a townie in Narutomafia. You even offer advice on how to look less scummy to others.

 

And he doesn't jump on any of it. He doesn't latch on to that defense, he just tells me to back off until he's ready to say something.

Are you guys really not seeing this?

---------- Post automerged at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------

Try this - pretend you're the one who made that post to Scott. You know you're town. You know if Scott is scum, he knows you're town. Can you ever see him making that post?

I mean, I have both you and Snow leaning town, and if you're both not seeing it, I have to consider the fact that I'm making too much of it, but I really think I've got something here.

 

Newcomb's readwall casts doubt on my scumread of him. The post (regardless of whether or not I agree with what he says), is comprehensive and detailed, not something he could've put together quickly to make himself look better.

Maybe he's town, or scum who got the hang of faking, but my vote seems weaker to me now.

 

Aren't you moving the goalposts here? Is he town because your post was threatening and he didn't panic, or because you defended him and he didn't use it to his advantage?

It's a confident and laid-back post, which is slightly town, but not enough to make him my strongest townread. It's a promise to make better posts in the future, so I'd watch to see if he followed through.

 

It's the combination of both that makes it a strong read. If he's scum, he's likely reading a lot of those things as implicit threats, and he's also seeing that I'm giving him very clear outs. To not jump on any of it, in any way, in your first scum game... I dunno, man, I just don't see it.

What's your take on Scott, then?

---------- Post automerged at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 PM ----------

And he did follow through. He posted colored reads last night, hours after making that post.

 

I think he may be town, and you may know he's town.

 

Are you making it intentionally hard for me to talk to you again?

I asked what you thought of the votes on Citrus, which are in the moment Seratin and his fluffiness, but Newcomb was also voting for him when I first asked.
You could have just checked yourself what the question was.

 

Scott’s readwall was fine. I didn’t agree with all of his reads, but nothing stood out to me as bad. He’s doesn’t look as scummy anymore compared to other people, but we’ll see if his posts continue in that direction.

I don’t find Fluff’s comment very telling. Not for a first post looking for a reaction.

But Blab’s post was fishy?

Lol. Same post:

Considering you’re still bringing up stuff we’ve already gone over, maybe you should take your own advice.

I don’t see how you came to that conclusion. What indication? Snow doesn’t seem to have replied to that post.

I explained my reasons.

I’m not attacking you? I’m pointing things out. You don’t need to take it personally.

You can change your mind, if you like. It’s hard to ignore your fence-sitting when you’re proclaiming it to the thread on every page.

I’ll agree with this. It read like Seratin was trying to spin his scummy behavior with vague statements.

Oh no, we both think the other is faking their scum-hunting. Scott’s opinion on you:

Is Scott with us too on your mystical scum team?

Your post is detailed and written well, but I don't understand how you got to some of your conclusions. They seem reaching.

 

Rubicon, don't ruin this for me. This is the first time in either game I've had an "a hah!" moment where I was convinced of something. Are you really going to take that away from me?

How about we both agree we're not lynching Scott today, and you delve into the other content of my big post, specifically who I think the scum are, and do you agree?

 

Perhaps you have trouble talking to me when you're scum.

Not a fan of fluffiness' vote. I agree with weiyaoli's analysis of the situation in #137. Newcomb's vote is okay, I understand why he would have found Citrus' read on him strange. Seratin's vote... not much to say there, null.

---------- Post automerged at 02:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

Yes

I agree that Snowvon, weiyaoli and Zenzao look town. I don't think blab is town.

 

Cool. Explain the blab thing to me. blab I have like one kinda flimsy reason for townreading (explained above), and not much else.