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Harry an average wizard?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AMG, Dec 6, 2015.

  1. marlow

    marlow Squib

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    Harry is a slightly above average wizard who manages to achieve extraordinary things. He is undoubtedly talented at defence (both academically and practically), but this is the only real area he excels in. He is not particularly intelligent or studious, nor does he show an intrinsic understanding of magic.

    For me this is the biggest problem with his character and the books. His survival is 1 part determination, 2 parts other characters (Hermione/Dumbledore) and 3 parts luck. He is the child of prophecy, destined to (perhaps) defeat the dark lord... and yet in the end it is his wand which defeats Voldemort.
     
  2. Puzzled

    Puzzled High Inquisitor

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    Harry is a hero, that doesn't make him particularly good at magic. He's sharp enough and I'd say above average but his character is what defines him, not the spells he knows. He has a fairly limited repertoire that he uses well but its more what he does, not how he does it. I would say Hermione is a better wizard to say nothing of several others, but Harry is the one who acts and steps up. He's the kid who fought a basilisk with a sword, having him transfigure some rocks into roosters would make him a very different person.

    TL;DR: Harry is an average wizard but that's only part of what he is.
     
  3. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Professor

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    You're arbitrarily defining being a good wizard as someone who knows more spell theory. Hermione, for instance, wasn't able to cast the Patronus until years after Harry was. It is Harry who taught the DA and not Hermione, for a very good reason.

    Even ignoring that, your reasons for why Harry is average are "Hermione and several others". You might want to look up the meaning of average. Having what essentially amounts to a handful of people better than him doesn't make him average.
     
  4. Ashton Knight

    Ashton Knight Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    The difference between Harry and Hermione is that I think Harry is better in combat while Hermione is better at magic. Now, before you point to the Patronus example, I'd like to point out that (A) Harry needed to learn the patronus to combat the Dementors while Hermone didn't and (B) Her being able to cast the patronus years after Harry isn't relevant since she didn't bother actually trying to learn it until OoTP.

    I would like to add though that I don't think Harry is an average wizards. I would say that he is, at the very least, above average and at best Gifted.
     
  5. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Professor

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    My point wasn't that Hermione is better or worse than Harry at magic, but that using Hermione as an example of Harry being average makes little sense. Hermione is someone who tries to learn everything she can. That's who she is in canon. Her not being able to learn the patronus until much later points more towards her inability to learn it than her lack of interest in learning it.

    Basically, my point is that Hermione has things she is brilliant at, and so does Harry. When it comes to magic, they're both far above average.
     
  6. alro2

    alro2 Squib

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    I'd also like to contribute a different perspective on the whole kind 'how powerful is Harry debate' that I read in a fan-fiction once; If Hogwarts is the most prestigious magic school of all, and they only have about 15-20 students per house in each year, that would make for (at most) 140 students per house for a total of 560 students. That's really not a lot. So either the wizarding population is very low, or Hogwarts' standards are very high. And since they must first accept a student, and they are so 'prestigious', it's not such a far reach to think that they may only accept the best. And if a wizard like Neville (no Neville hate - I actually love him, haha), is considered some of the best, then what are the actual average wizards like? I mean, in this case we would be considering Harry above-average in magic in a school where everyone is above-average.
     
  7. prtclehysics

    prtclehysics Third Year

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    I do think Hogwarts has a higher cutoff than the other magical schools. The way I worded it in a fanfic was "Hogwarts students go through in one year, what the other magical schools may take two years or longer to teach." So every Hogwarts student is "powerful" their achievements just depend on how they use it. But that's off topic.
     
  8. Zennith

    Zennith Pebble Wrestler ~ Prestige ~

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    What in canon gives you that impression?
     
  9. prtclehysics

    prtclehysics Third Year

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    I think Krum may have mentioned something to that effect in GOF, I'll have to dig the book out .
     
  10. cassandrajackson

    cassandrajackson Squib

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    That being said it also should be considered this kid did not really have a 'normal' Hogwarts student life. I guess if he was raised with Lily and James alive it would have probs been a very different Harry. He picked up the skills he needed, 'defence'. I guess, he could have been academically strong if he wanted but I think he was more taken with the distractions around him.
     
  11. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Yeah, canon generally seems to indicate that Hermoine's better at the academic side of magical studies, while Harry does a lot better when thrown into the thick of things and forced to survive.
     
  12. Republic

    Republic The Snow Queen –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Might be remembering my canon wrong, but it seems to me that living with the Dursleys made Harry rather a snarky little shit. Sure he was scrawny, but we have no clue how they affected his will to apply himself to stuff/studies. You can't blame this on the Dursleys.
     
  13. MsCalypso

    MsCalypso First Year

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    Harry to my knowledge is anything but bad at magic. I think he's definitely above average, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that he is gifted. Maybe if he had applied himself more, he would have become much better than what he showed throughout the books. He seems to have a natural knack for improvisation, he is good at thinking on his feet and that's when his magic comes into its own. But he will never be reinventing the fire - so to speak - I believe that if his circumstances were different, he definitely would be more of a prodgidy in other fields of magic than just defence.
     
  14. Rakkety Tam

    Rakkety Tam High Inquisitor

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    I think Hermione just likes learning more. Harry seems very good at academics when he gives a shit. It's not that he is bad at it. He just doesn't have a passion for it. When a particular spell or book interests him though he seems to learn at a pretty quick rate especially anything related to the dark arts, and oddly enough, he seems like the best person in the book outside of Dumbledore when it comes to understanding the more subtle forms of magic.
     
  15. Republic

    Republic The Snow Queen –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Wait, so your argument is that when a teenager becomes interested in a subject and starts actually trying/giving a shit he becomes good at it?

    Wow. What a fascinating world to live in.

    (in case I wasn't clear; that sort of thing is normal)
     
  16. Zennith

    Zennith Pebble Wrestler ~ Prestige ~

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    Best sentence ever.
     
  17. vlad

    vlad Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    Zennith, master of the punchline signature.
     
  18. Mystyc

    Mystyc Muggle

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    Harry is easy to view as average since you automatically compare him to the other main characters we see. Hermione: genius, academically driven, always has the spell you need. Ron: slacker, procrastinator, rarely does magic that matters.

    When compared to his only heavily described peers, we find Harry complains less about homework than Ron, and has areas he excels at but never reaches the heights of academic excellence of Hermione. This is planned, since you want the protagonist to be accessible, and a genius bookworm is much less accessible than a teenager with some areas of excellence and a believable work ethic.

    We then see Harry survive and succeed because he plays to his strengths, doesn't freeze under pressure, and his best friends pick up the slack (plus a healthy dose of fate/luck).
     
  19. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    I suspect that a large part of why Hermoine might seem to be a better wizard than Harry is ultimately down to the fact that she's much better than him at purely academic pursuits, and the bulk of the series takes place inside a school.
     
  20. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Professor

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    I suspect it's just the need to see Harry to go about casting super special magic willy-nilly with his super special elder wood wand with basilisk-venom-dementor-hood-thestral-tail-hair core, after a gruelling set of magical training that is a standard part of being the youngest full member of the Order of the Phoenix.
     
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