Actually, no - they share traits. The point was that everything that is narcissistic, droll and/or impenetrable is not necessarily bad, and I genuinely feel that this is not a bad piece of work. Nowhere have I said outright that it is, as a whole, a good story (3.5 being above average, but shy of good), and I wouldn't be so stupid as to suggest it paralleled various examples of real literature, but neither should it to be cast off so cursively.

Well - all I can say is that most fanfiction is guilty pleasure. It's not that I don't take it seriously, but for the most part 'guilty pleasure' sums up this particular hobby quite well. ":awesome/5" is exactly the sort of reaction a fanfiction should inspire, in my opinion, in the literal sense. But if we have idealogical differences about what fanfiction is for,this obviously isn't the place to discuss them.

I don't, however, think that my attention to this or any story or the review/rating I gave are in the slightest bit a 'shameful reflection on DLP', but rather the opposite: a clique of author/reader hybrids who all lean the same way and who universally agree something to be 'bad' or 'good' or even 'above average' - because people won't speak out on fictions that they like and they think others might like for fear of going against the grain - would be a shameful reflection on DLP. That is, indeed, what it used to be like - and I've only been reading DLP for a little over a year - and since they haven't locked out joining members or made it invitation only and it is exactly this attitude and image which the staff have since been trying to dispel, I think that's probably the direction it needs to shy from. If you and those who think like you (in this instance) want absolute control over which fics are displayed and which are cast off, start a blog. Ultimately, different opinions are what forums are for.

As it stands, this is (as I understand it) an open community where fictions like this, whilst perhaps not belonging in the library because they aren't of a certain ilk and aren't liked by enough of the community, can be viewed - from the Recycle Bin at least - by those who will enjoy them. The whole reason for leaving reviews or critiques of any nature aren't solely to impress 'This is what I think' but to express 'If you think like me, or this sounds a little like what you might be into, you could enjoy it as well'.

But everyone rates and the majority prevails... that does not mean, by any stretch, that ratings of a different opinion should be disallowed or discouraged. That suggestion is, in itself, a shameful reflection on DLP.

 

People rate how they rate. Grinning Lizard provided justification for the rating he gave.

Myself, I rate based on where I think the story belongs on DLP (5 = C2, 4 = Library, 3 = Recycling Bin, 2 or 1 = not even that) but I haven't the conceit to aver that this is how everyone should do it. As long as folks are consistent, it really doesn't matter much, particularly on stories like this one with a bajillion ratings already.

/diversion

 

It's not about following the grain, or conceit, or fear of reprisal when discussing the rating system and what goes in the library. If anything, it's about being as objective as possible when rating. I've never met anyone who didn't enjoy the films 'Super Troopers' or 'Zoolander', but never have I heard anyone lament the fact that they didn't win an Oscar, either. Same applies here.

As for one set opinion dominating the library, I can't even say if that's true. Everyone "knows" that DLPers hate Harry/Ginny, yet Harry/Ginny fics are heavily represented in the library; DLPers "hate" manipulative Dumbledore, yet it's there as well; we all "hate" Molly Weasley, yet Pers' sigged fic is well-received; "katanas in Harry Potter = fail," yet every other month someone was asking about Jono's Stranger Trilogy until I e-stalked him (Heh.). Pick any supposed assumption about what should go in the library, and there's always a number of fics that contradict that. It's been that way, at least for as long as I've been a member.

No one is disputing that MoR is enjoyable or entertaining; it'd be stupid to, given the sheer amount of positive criticism it received both here and elsewhere on the internet. But it'd be nice if one could look at a similar fic and say "Well, I know that x, y, and z are really bad, and I like it, but it doesn't fit here" instead of "Well, I know that x, y, and z, are really bad, but I like it so it belongs here."

But I suppose at this point it doesn't matter, given the overwhelming number of votes.

 

I can't help but see this as a better written version of Partially Kissed Hero. The wordiness, the lack of direction, and the depiction of the Wizarding World in both stories makes me hate myself for the time I've wasted reading as much of these as I have.

Not a fan.

 

We're still in the middle of first year. I'd consider that just started.

 

The problem they're referring to is the length not the placement EsperJones. He spent a quarter of a million words and is still in the middle of the first year? The original novel was only 76,944 words. Order of the Phoenix the longest book in the series ended at 257,045 words.

LessWrong has a lot of issues with pacing. He should have been able to do a lot more with such high a word count instead of giving us so much filler.

 

I think that has a lot to do with the format of FF. Many fanfic writers don't plan out their stories in advance, as it seems apparent here. Instead, the writing for some this highly-updated stories seems to resemble a TV series with weekly episodes. There's apparently an end in sight*, but you have to cut through a lot of padding and filler to get there.

LW would probably respond by that his fic is a lot more detailed. The problem is that isn't the case. It's that his fic has a lot more padding and filler. A better outline would probably lead to a tighter, more concise, more coherent story. We'd probably still hate the direction of the plot, but at least it wouldn't take as damn long to reach the end.

*Though it's a bit unclear where this is going to lead. Will LW end this by 3rd year or something? I doubt he has the fortitude of someone like LightningOnTheWave for instance, and is prepared to write over 2 million words on HP and go through all 7 years. I just literally don't see that happening.

 

This strikes me as particularly apt. It's Harry Potter Fanfic: The TV adaption.

 

Now I'm a little surprised. There are bad stories, horrible stories and then there are a few stories where the disappointment and dullness caused by them kills all the fun into further reading fics for at least a day.

I get that certain dementor fic feeling with Methods, Partially Kissed Hero and all stuff Radaslab produces like the Harem War for instance.(incomplete list:facepalm)

What do these stories have in common? They are redundant, seem to be stuck in some kind of mental loop, don't even try to create realistic characters, seem to show some kind of obsessions of the writer and they have a lot of reviews and fans.

I'm still unsure if the fans like them because they share some of these weird obsessions, because they are long with a lot updates, because they just don't realize what kind of mental crap they read right now or that my mentality doesn't allow me to see the beauty in them.

 

That would account for most of it. I'm still reading Chuunin Exam Day, even though it's a fucking trainwreck at this point. I did give up Partially Kissed Hero though.

 

I gave up on that a while ago. Intriguing concept, terrible execution. I hate it when an author doesn't deliver on an awesome concept.

 

Its a lot of bullshit.

The common thread between those stories listed, or Harry Harem, or Harry Wolverine!Claws is that they are all self-indulgent tripe.

This Harry has a fusion of a Martyr and Messiah Complex. Suffering under Draco's torture, feeling compelled to LITERALLY save the wizarding world by bringing forth Scientific Revolution, its nonsense. Unless we're looking at Jesus with a wand.

Oh, and his great aspiration is to never-ever die. Beautiful. Its so stupid, I can hardly muster the energy to blast it.

Its a narcissistic self-fixation. "WHAT! I don't go on forever? I end too?" Yes! No one is so great, everyone dies. And it enables the next generation to seize power and define THEIR future. Unless he's

And those Transfiguration rules are so stupid. He may as well concede it, and move on. We've seen people transfigure shit into liquids in canon (Dumbledore duel in Atrium). McGonagall is only a threat because of her prowess in transfiguration. And I think these are just unnecessary narrative complications. They don't improve shit.

But Methods is arrogant. He'll continue writing what he deems "awesomely" blithely disregarding the one website offering sound advice.

Bah.

 

Wow, that didn't sound even slightly arrogant there.

 

If he's reading the shit, he should acknowledge it.

And its DLP's notes I'm addressing, so I don't know how that makes me arrogant.

EDIT: Got off topic, but realized it.

Bottom line: Dude sucks. Good ideas, but he has no sense of pacing, and he's consumed by his desire for reviews and to be "awesome" by making "great" versions of fanfiction cliches.

It ALWAYS sucks when 11 year olds are able to slaughter Dementors, especially when it is their first time encountering one.

 

I've always seen a 4 as "good enough, I guess, to get into the library" and 5 as "library worthy beyond a reasonable doubt".

I just wish that there was a "zero" rating and negative ratings as well. Ah well.

---------- Post automerged at 22:41 ---------- Previous post was at 22:24 ----------

I suppose this is a problem of whether one believes that the DLP Library is a repository of quality fics, or a repository of fics that DLP members happened to have liked. I personally think the second is a better interpretation. We might all believe that the DLP is above and beyond reproach in its ability to detect and pick from the vast coal veins the few diamonds, but OVER 9000 Snape/Harry fans would likely disagree.

Suffice it to say, I don't vote based on whether the fic might be worthy of the library - who the fuck knows what the hell you people like? Blaise amply demonstrated that was we all believe about what we all believe, is probably contradicted by raw numbers. I do know what I like, and I'll vote accordingly, I'll assume other people do the same, and that all our votes will aggregate to show whether DLP members (who read the fic and voted for or against it) liked it or not.

I wouldn't dream of telling the mods what to do, but personally I don't think any story should be sorted out of the nominations folder until it's gotten a hundred votes or more. There's too many fics in the library with 4 votes - but they've got 5 stars! - and too many fics in the recycle bin that have 4 stars . . . and four votes. :facepalm

 

I believe the system was changed so that a fic must have at least 10 votes before it's fate can be determined.

Mostly anything in the library with less than ten votes will be before 2007.

 

I agree with Rin somewhat. I try to be objective myself, but I see some bandwagoning and some favoritism among certain authors. Basically, some of the more active members do try to be objective while some don't.

In my opinion, what you have here at DLP, regarding the library, is a pretty effective means to determine what is good and what is not. It's not as perfect as some would believe, though.

And to show proof of how well the system does work, recall the recc Amerisison did a while ago involving Tom not becoming Voldemort that featured Lupin and most of the Marauders as slash. The knee-jerk reaction one would expect from DLP is "burn it with fire, 1/5." It made it into the library.

(Looks back at thread. This thing seems to be all over the place.)

 

Yeah, I did the math. Looks like with nine votes, the tenth vote can only influence the score from 0 to 0.4 points; and, at nineteen votes, the twentieth vote can only influence it from 0 to 0.2 points.

I ran some hypotheticals: if you have nine 5s, it takes only three 1s to drop it from an average of 5 to a 4. However, you need nine 1s to drop it to 3, and twenty-seven 1s to drop it all the way to 2. Ah well.

Anyway, it seems like the wiser choice would be to wait until at least 20 votes then, since it only takes 2 votes to drop a score from one tier to the next below. with only 10 votes, whereas at 20 votes, one can definitively say that unless nearly 10 more votes get cast, it's not changing.

I still don't buy it. Purely technical issues (punctuation, grammar, spelling, and certain limited style choices (such as use of the passive voice) notwithstanding, I just don't believe that there can be an objective measure of quality - not that there is one and we might or might not have found it, but that literally cannot be one - there is no objective qualitative standard that we can find. We can, however, tell the Innerbuttz that collectively, DLP members who voted on this or that story, happened to have liked it.

What we have is an aggregate conglomeration of each voting DLP member's subjective standards, whatever they happen to be. Furthermore, we CAN, if we wanted to take the time, find characteristics shared by the various five-star fics we have and show that voting DLP members like to see these characteristics in a fic.

Anyway, that's my two dollars worth. I'll quit talking about this in this thread.