At this point I'm convinced mal is scum. mal's partner is a little more difficult to find. But I think it's Citrus (see my post above.)

By the way, I'm still wondering if I'm seeing things or if my read actually makes sense to everyone else.

---------- Post automerged at 12:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------

Kai can you give us who you think the other scum is?

 

Hey KaiDASH , how do you feel about being wrong about Proph all game?

I do think its pretty interesting that Proph flips neutral, and people have followed through on their "This is what I'll think if Proph is scum" lines and not their "This is what I'll do if Proph is town" lines.

---------- Post automerged at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

Because, to be very very clear, Proph was playing his town game, not his scumgame. Because he was purposefully townsiding as neutral.

So people that were calling him scum were wrong. Period. The End.

So as far as I go, you have to decide if I correctly read him as town, or if I had outside information. Obviously I can assure you that there was more than enough information in the thread to determine Proph was town, but the biggest hint was that the way votes went, the scumteam was obviously trying to kill him.

I'm rereading right now, but also remember that means that our Day1 wagons were all not on scum, our Day2 wagon was between scum and NOT!scum, and our Day3 main wagon wasn't on scum either. I'll bring you guys some conclusions on that in a bit.

---------- Post automerged at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

And everybody that wants to scumread me needs to both give who my partner is, AND give a reason other than "Lynch All Liars".

---------- Post automerged at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:02 ----------

Actually, KaiDASH, you never explained yourself on this post and then let it drop for a while. Please elaborate now that its relevant again:

 

If I can still find something off about it, that's not his town game. You may say that it was his town game. Or Proph may claim he was trying to mimic his town game. But it's not his actual town play. It can look similar to be fair, but there are likely some differences between his play this game and his actual town play.

Neutral is still scum in my opinion, as we still needed to lynch/kill him in order to win.

Proph could not win with us so that means he was still against us, even though he may or may not have been acting in a helpful manner.

The moments where he was back from vacation or whatever but didn't post a lot, those were the moments where he was acting anti-townie. Yes, he started to be more and more self-pres. But self-pres-ing happens as any alignment.

Citrus being all worrisome over Proph still not posting much was good of him, but it looks a lot more opportunistic now, especially because Citrus hasn't had much presence himself. Sure, he has a lot of posts, but he feels more under the radar than most people do this game.

I think the mal/citrus team is still pretty legit.

---------- Post automerged at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------

It's not his town game if he's using it or trying to mimic it as some other alignment than town.

 

Please flip that around. Neutral is still town imo because the scumteam needs to lynch/kill them in order to win.

In fact, its actually even stronger that way. The scumteam /doesn't/ have to lynch or kill every town player to win, they just have to outnumber them. They /do/ have to lynch or kill every neutral in order to win.

---------- Post automerged at 13:44 ---------- Previous post was at 13:37 ----------

Either way, neutrals suck because they break scumhunting. At least for me because I normally try to avoid games with neutrals so I have no idea how to read them.

Which doesn't really matter.

Honestly at this point, I just want to have a correct Final Answer before you guys lynch me, and the only reason to respond to current stuff in the thread instead of just rereading is to see if the scumteam is a little too overzealous in trying to bury me. But . . . currently there's too many players that are overzealous in trying to bury me to just be the scum team. So back to the backlog.

 

You're both kinda right. Neutral is scum by definition, they stop town winning the game. But you're right that they have to play as town in thread because they only win if town lynch all scum.

However, they can't play fully town because they also need to remain low key enough for nk's. Particularly a problem for someone like proph who's generally fairly high on scum's kill list around here.

And let's face it, there's no way you're confident enough in a town read to fake claim cop as town with a green check on someone about to get lynched. The only way that claim makes any sense is if it comes from a scum who expects proph to flip green.

 

1. No, I really was that confident.

2. Please consider my payoff matrix if there weren't any neutrals in the game.

I'm right, and we lynch somebody other than Proph:
Much higher chance of lynching scum, decent chance scum believe my claim and bounce a kill off me

I'm right, and we lynch Proph:
Very high chance that scum believe my claim and bounce a kill off me, my worldbuilding is correct, ect.

I'm wrong, and we lynch somebody other than Proph:
We could still lynch his partner, town probably lynches Proph the next day and I'm in a bad situation on Day6, but I'll have a chance to reconsider the gamestate after Proph flips scum.

I'm wrong and we lynch Proph:
Ok, so in that world, I probably get lynched Day5, but its not LYLO so that's not the end of the world, and town can probably win after I flip town.

3. Sure, or scum could just avoid a fakeclaim that gave them way too much attention and happily lynch their serial killer read.

---------- Post automerged at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------

I just failed to consider the world that actually happened which was:

Proph flips neutral:
Just like proph flipping scum, I probably get lynched Day5, but unlike that world, its LYLO so town doesn't get to reconsider after I flip town.

 

Town can't win with the neutral still being alive. If we could, Proph would be a glorified town vig not a SK. Neutral does not equal town this game. Don't try to pretend otherwise.

lol, keep digging that hole of yours

---------- Post automerged at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

Also, if you were actually town, this wouldn't be good enough. We are in mylo. A mislynch loses the game. If you were actually town here, you wouldn't even be considering yourself getting lynched this game day.

But, yes please keep making yourself look even more scummy as the mafia that you are.

 

Where does your confidence come from? Because Proph sure as hell was never townread by me. He was null at best, and descended into scumlean quite a few times before yesterday.

You were the only player in the thread (AFAIK) that consistently defended Proph for a majority of the game, preventing his lynch at least once. Please explain where your confidence came from.

 

You missed the context there owner.

I've given up on winning because of posts like yours right there.

I'd just at least like to solve the game to salvage some of my pride and get "I told you so" points after we lose.

Because seriously, put yourself in my shoes. For town to win, all 4 members of town need to vote together two days in a row. Which means that no members of town can vote each other at all. Which means the even if I find the scumteam, I have to convince you that I'm town.

Meanwhile, I just had another game start up off site that I have a much larger chance of winning.

But as I said, I won't give up on this one until I've found the scumteam and presented a case on them.

But if your reaction then is the same as now, I'm not going to waste any more time on this game.

---------- Post automerged at 15:24 ---------- Previous post was at 15:21 ----------

Sure, this is a good question. I'll answer it after work toDay (and really I should have answered it yesterDay instead of doing fake claim shenanigans).

Separately, @ everyone else , #1592 and some early game interactions with Jarizok/Citrus has me moving Miner back into my town pile.

Which makes me actually think the scumteam might be Citrus/Bill Door?

 

Town doesn't give up.

You mean your mafia team?

Incorrect, we lynch 1 mafia today (that's you.) We go to sleep; the remaining mafia (Citrus) kills a townie. Tomorrow, the remaining 3 alive townies do a thorough reread or they can do the thorough reread today, and then lynch the remaining mafia, which I believe is Citrus, tomorrow.

---------- Post automerged at 04:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 PM ----------

The wording of this is kind of awkward, especially in contrast with some of your other posts.

But Mal, you have already given up by the looks of things.

 

Thanks owner, that was very motivating and helpful and definitely gave me hope that I can convince you of anything.

 

Thoughts on massclaim? I don't see any real downsides at this point. We need all info available today.

I'm Seamus Finnegan, vanilla town.

 

Hi mal, I feel great, thanks for asking. How do you feel about the view from the moral high ground?

---

Sometimes I just say things. It's nice to hear that you've been thinking about me so much.

 

I feel awful, thanks for asking.

I'm glad you just say things. I wish you'd say correct things instead of "the town doctor is scum", "the neutral serial killer is scum" and "the mislynch the scum team needs to win the game is scum". Like, somebody being wrong doesn't make them scum, I obviously know that, but you don't have any content /besides/ being wrong.

I've been thinking about you because I need to figure out if you're scum or not. You're not making it easy.

Who's my buddy again? I don't think you ever answered that?

 

Minerva McGonagall (or however you spell that) reporting in, Vanilla Town

For the record, this was definitely not Proph's town-play this game. And he absolutely was NOT a town-siding neutral. That term only refers to Survivors that can win with anyone and can thus 'X-side'. There is no way you can even try to say this was his town-play, because it was not. Not only would he not be /that/ wrong about me from the amount of experience he has playing with me, but the true self-preservation was oozing out D2 when he was in danger of being lynched still.

It's already been hit on the head, but the scum!motivation for your play is extremely apparent with your play. Claim odd-cop, change it to even-cop so that you only have a report on Proph (who you KNEW wasn't scum), change it to limited night commuter/untargetable after he flips serial killer to avoid having to give another *report*. It's a shame, because you let mechanics override behavior -> regardless of his play, you mechanically assumed he was town because he was not-scum, and you're caught for it

---------- Post automerged at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------

Also just an fyi, I've been feverishly sick the last few days, but I seem to be feeling better so should be around here on out

 

Hi Citrus, if we're both town, who is the scum team?

And of course, if you're going to vote me, you have to also say who my buddy is.

 

Citrus can you explain that part a little? What do you mean by "that wrong about me"? What was he wrong about specifically?

---------- Post automerged at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:15 PM ----------

I believe Kai is the only one yet to claim so...
KaiDASH if you would be so kind.

 

I think Kai claimed VT some point in D2.

 

Might've been a tad easier if you hadn't attacked every living player since Day start, I'll give you that

---------- Post automerged at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 PM ----------

Pushing me as scum -> not a true read on me, but rather he was mainly focused on staying alive and getting himself closer to victory. See: panic-pushing on Jarizok the second he claimed bulletproof (if he's town and doesn't get him lynched here, he can't get rid of him; if he's scum, he looks good for pushing on him so hard). See part 2: pushing on me due to me being his only counter-wagon

 

He claimed George Weasley for sure. Don't remember if he claimed specific role but I'll take your word for it.

Citrus

It seemed as though he had an actual read on you, as you/mal was the scumteam he came up with before he was lynched. So like he stuck with his push...

Also I wouldn't call what he did with Jarizok panic-pushing. Opportunistic sure, but I'm pretty sure at that point there were at least a few people on Jarizok since he was forced to claim.