1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Harry Potter Spells, underestimated?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 0jordinio0, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,958
    I do agree that the canon list of spells is sufficiently long. If Harry learned and mastered every spell on that list, he'd be perfectly capable of defending himself against any opponent. Exotic magicks should only come into play when you're doing something... different. Like say, splitting your soul up into seven pieces, or other, more arcane tasks than... fighting. Combat is kind of weird in HP, I'd honestly prefer if stories focused on magical application in non-combat scenarios. Like sneaking, researching, summoning/conjuring, et cetera; JKR wrote the series the way she did probably because she knew she couldn't write a children's story where the protagonist is a bloodthirsty mass murderer. Harry isn't Rambo. And we can't expect other characters to be any different. It just feels weird for authors to introduce more anime-ish style combat. Just doesn't fit. Luck, hi-jinks, ...some more luck. That's how fights should play out with Harry. If you want him to be badass, I say, make him a badass at everything but fighting. Not enough authors are willing to do that? I dunno.

    Problem solving with magic should be about creative thinking and it should be an intellectual or spiritual struggle. It shouldn't be, "Hermione, go get that spellbook!" Because if a problem can be solved simply by reciting and performing a single spell, then your story doesn't have much bloody conflict.

    Also, I tend to get "mental fatigue" when a lot of author-made spells get thrown around. Hard to imagine them all if they're used in rapid succession (and if their descriptions are sufficiently sparse).
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  2. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,511
    Location:
    One of the Shires
    High Score:
    9,373
    Fourth year spell, if I'm remembering OotP right.
     
  3. afrojack

    afrojack Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,592
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southron California
    I also always imagined that the use of corresponding sets of spells would vary with the skill of the users. For instance, Harry wouldn't be able to "Alohomora" Dumbledore's "Colloportus," while Dumbledore could easily Unlock anything Harry tried to Lock, which would make those spells more viable in more situations as the skill of the user increased.
     
  4. R. Daneel Olivaw

    R. Daneel Olivaw Groundskeeper

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    Messages:
    342
    Location:
    Yuen Long
    You could add in the element of spell "difficulty". So that simply knowing the right words, motions, etc. doesn't mean you can actually cast the spell. If some take more out of you to cast, or are too complex, then simply knowing it won't mean you can do it.

    A lot of the DLP authors do this by making it about the complexity of understanding what it is you are doing. That's good. Fanon tends to make it about power expenditure from a "magical core", which also works (despite being non-canon). It also adds a third concept, that of differing magical power. I know that's not in keeping "Potter Law", but that doesn't make it bad--it all depends on how it's handled.

    Personally, I think a mix of all these ideas is good. Breadth of spell knowledge, depth of skill/understanding, limits of power.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  5. SAXA

    SAXA Squib

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    United States
    The limits of magic, as in how much one can use, really should be determined at some point in the fic an author's writing. I mean, in many fics there's always the protagonist in the middle of his fight thinking "Oh, I'm almost out of magic."

    The hell does that mean? The magic in your body, the magic in your core? What the hell does the magical core even do?
     
  6. halffareprince

    halffareprince First Year

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    "Magical core" is a crutch people end up leaning on because they feel like they need some other way to say "he's exhausted" like they would in a strictly physical fight.

    What's annoying about that (among other things) is that it's a totally unnecessary complication, a kludge to fix something that's not broken. Dueling takes concentration; constant, complex mental calculations about your opponents' next moves; and precise wand movements and/or pronunciation. You have to do all that while somebody's trying to kill you. Eventually somebody's going to get sloppy—either in the spellcasting or in the planning.

    To me it seems much more elegant—or at least much more relatable—to reduce it to that, instead of giving your characters what amounts to an MP gauge. It's like some writers have never been mentally exhausted by something.

    Thinking about magic in terms of someone's non-magical abilities also allows characters to be effective in ways that amplify their character. Harry might solve a problem instinctually—use the first blunt-force spell that comes to mind, don't hesitate—where Hermione would try to learn one perfect spell for each situation, leaving her more effective but also much less flexible. Dumbledore would have so much knowledge and experience, and such a complete understanding of their psychology, that he'd see five moves ahead of both of them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  7. Chadrew

    Chadrew Second Year

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    71
    I see many fics which have wizards using Diffindo to cut flesh and Reducto to explode body parts. What's your take on this? Personally I don't think these spells should/could be used this way. They're not classified as Dark, are readily available, and Harry used diffindo to cut the shoulder strap of Cedric's bag (imagine him missing by an inch and cutting his neck)...
     
  8. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,511
    Location:
    One of the Shires
    High Score:
    9,373
    It's the Reductor curse, so it is dark magic, since dark magic is simply a spell that can be used with malicious intent.
     
  9. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    5,048
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Silesia
    Wrong, dark magic are spells that can be used with ONLY a malicious intent. Therefore, the Killing Curse is dark magic, while Diffindo isn't.
     
  10. MonkeyEpoxy

    MonkeyEpoxy The Cursed Child DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,112
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Colorado
    Hm? I always thought, and I'm pretty sure I read it in a JKR interview, but I can't find it, that jinxes, hexes, and curses are all dark magic in varying intensities. It's why I find it strange when I see that some stories/people claim that Harry Potter/Hogwarts students never learned dark magic. I presume that to learn the proper counter-hex, jinx, or curse, one must be at least passably familiar with the hex, jinx, or curse itself, and the fact that Harry et. al know the reductor curse, the leg-locker curse, and the stunning curse lend some credence to that.

    Of course, I guess it could be argued that there are dark arts, and Dark Arts.

    What makes me curious is the seemingly out of nowhere dark magic caveat that Deathly Hallows (I think? Fred's ear) introduced, the one that says a wound suffered from dark magic can sometimes never heal. I guess those could be the capital lettered Dark Arts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
Loading...