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Harry Potter vs A Song of Ice and Fire

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aegon, Dec 15, 2020.

  1. chrnno

    chrnno High Inquisitor

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    Harry Potter is better without question even with the last two, arguably three, books being disappointing. The seventh so much so when I started reading fanfiction a few years later I was rather surprised because I didn't remember pretty much anything. But despite that I have read the first four books dozens of times, the fifth a bit less because of the combination of coming out latter and not being as good and the sixth like twice. I happily spent, still do really, a massive amount of time discussing the story and reading fanfiction of it.

    Meanwhile I read ASoIaF once back when it was 3 books and by the time the fourth came out I considered seeing where Jon's and Danny's story would go(because aside from Eddard that was mainly what I recalled), but figured I should re-read the previous books before that which I kept pushing off for a while because it was a slog the first time around. Then I learned those two weren't the focus and just moved on from the series entirely. Only came up again when GoT exploded and at the time I figured a lot of people were set-up for disappointment.

    Since I stumbled upon them at the same time ASoIaF and Wheel of Time is something I closely compared and, even with the latter's issues in other regards, I recall feeling the contrast being a great example on how to (not) do massive cast and world building. With WoT even when I was annoyed at the POV switch things were interesting enough I still kept reading carefully anyway instead of rushing to where it switches again.
     
  2. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros. Moderator

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    This is like comparing apples to oranges.

    Harry Potter is undoubtedly superior when it comes to charm, humor, and sandbox world building (e. G. Stuff you can take in many different directions).

    ASOIAF has more complex plots, and better villains. However, I hesitate to say whether there is truly better world building. There's certainly more content, but Grrms world is about as inconsistent as JKRs if you want to get into the specifics, and given the more "serious" nature of the series, its far less forgivable when it falls into really stupid shit like oh i dont know... The Dothraki, who are a collection of nomadic popular tropes instead of having any basis on historical nomadic groups, his feudalism being unworkable at the scale he's set it up, his religion being powerless and everyone being a pseudo atheist, his disregard for female characters who aren't protagonists but nonetheless seem important background fogures (see the unnamed Princess of dorne, or basically all of fire and blood).

    I could go on a multi hour rant about all the problems there are with asoiafs world building. It certainly has the illusion of complexity and depth to it, until one realizes its more broad and shallow than anything else.
     
  3. Mestre

    Mestre Professor

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    100% with the world building point. ASOAIF world building looks like big and complicated, but if you dig a little it feels really shallow and the more you dig less sense it gets.
     
  4. soczab

    soczab Professor

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    Mmm. ASOIAF world is about the characters more. I think the world makes perfect sense (as much as any fantasy series does) but its not really a complex world in terms of like... its social constructs and geo-politics. I mean if you know your history its pretty easy to see where the politics are from since they are all based on real world history. What makes it rich is the vast web of characters and their interactions and shades of gray. I'd much rather a world complex because of its interesting people, then most of the books i see held up as complex worlds (ex: Malazan) which is really just so much bs and unrealistically complex lore that gets spouted out ad-nasseum by characters that serve as vehicles to show how complex the world is.

    The beauty of GRRM's world is not in 'structures' like say magical seasons, but in the people who live in it.
     
  5. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros. Moderator

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    Sure but that's not world building as its generally understood.
     
  6. Nefar

    Nefar Seventh Year

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    Hard to tell which of these two series is worse. On the one hand Harry Potter started out harmlessly charming and descended smoothly into misery, whereas A Song Of Ice And Fire is miserable unconvincing garbage from the beginning. On the other hand, Martin had the good grace to realize how bad his series was and stop before the end, while Rowling willfully subjected the world to Deathly Hallows. A quick search indicates ASOIF is quite a bit longer than HP by word count, giving the objective advantage to Harry Potter if you're unfortunate enough to find yourself needing to choose between reading one of them.
     
  7. Xantam

    Xantam Denarii Host

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    You seem like you have lots of friends.
     
  8. Padishah Emperor

    Padishah Emperor First Year

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    Enjoy both (though AFFC, PS, and HBP are all pretty meh, to be honest). A Storm of Swords is one of the best fantasy novels written in the last twenty to thirty years, so I've probably got to give it to ASOIAF and GRRM.
    I prefer the Stormlight Archive (as well as Brandon Sanderson in general as an author) to both, however. Now that is a series which has incredible worldbuilding, plot-twists, and characters.
     
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