Does anyone find it the least bit strange Harry went through these steps:

Book 1.Useless Follower
Book 2.Boring Idiot
Book 3.Reckless Hero
Book 4.Cunning and Powerful Hero
Book 5.Moronic Whiner
Book 6.Dumbledore's House-elf

I mean, c'mon! Did he seriously grow up in Book 4, and then reverse to Book one by Book 6? Please say someone else noticed?

 

Book 4: Cunning and Powerful Hero? WTF? The bastard had to cheat his ass off to win a bloody rigged tournament. He needed fucking DOBBY to help him with the Second Task. PoA is the only point in canon where Harry has displayed anything resembling competence by mastering the Patronus Charm. Everywhere else he's been a loser.

 

Whatever... I mean at least he bothered training in book 4. I meant cunning because he cant be too much of a dumbo to win, even if he cheated. His flying was good. I hated his hero episode... Look, i'm comparing the kid to the ones in the books. Compared. As for book 3... hmmm. I'll give him that. But still, try and compare him to the others.

 

Alright, let's get a few things straightened out.​

• Book I - Harry is thrust in to a new world where he has no friends and nothing is familiar to him. He takes the initiative when need be, standing up for his companions and such (Neville's rememberall, troll incident). If you ask me, for somebody who is only 11 years old, Harry shows remarkable courage and wit. He may make stupid decisions every once and a while (Malfoy duel), but who here didn't at that age?
• Book II - Boring idiot you say? Again, In this book Harry shows an extreme amount of recklessness. Flying a car to Hogwarts, trusting Hagrid's advice, and going down in to the Chamber of Secrets (which he knows harbors a basilisk that could easily kill him). Yet all of these acts took large quantities of bravery. When you were 12 years old, did you venture down in to the sewers alone at night? How about with your friends? Did you venture out in to some dark forest far away from your home, without even a map?
• Book III - Harry is indeed a reckless hero here isn't he? But he is also much more. This is the first book in which we see Harry mature. Maybe you missed it, blinding rage can do that to a person. Or maybe you were jealous? Discovering that your godfather might have contributed to your parents' deaths and is now after you tends to bring one up to speed with reality. Harry strikes out on his own sometimes, which is seen as irresponsible by adults, but he is 13 years old and becoming more independent. He doesn't allow Sirius to kill Pettigrew which shows that he doesn't believe in senseless killing, and possibly that he is forgiving to an extent.
• Book IV - Cunning and powerful hero? Meh. Harry does prove himself to be powerful in a way. He shows willpower, determination, and the ability to stay relatively calm while under pressure. As with the previous book, Harry matures in this one. It may not seem like it with all of the childish behaviour (spats with Ron, procrastinating, petty arguments), but he is still only 14 years old and those things happen. He shows that he is more mature by applying himself even though his predicament may be hopeless. He doesn't judge Cedric even though the other boy's entire house is against him. And not only that, he actually helps him. Also, he learns the value of friendship. I know that may sound sappy, like something Dumbledore would say, but it is true in the end. Many times throughout the books Harry gains courage when his friends are backing him up.
• Book V - Moronic whiner... So he is upset, what is the big deal? He doesn't want to stay at the Dursley's but there isn't anything he can do about it... He is cut off from his friends, he is developing more independence which he can't practice, and he has a godfather that he can't even stay with. He has problems. Again in this book he makes reckless decisions, this is becoming a sort of pattern isn't it? That is because it is in his character. That is who Harry is... he makes these reckless decisions, but he carries them through. And at the end of the book he loses his godfather and becomes more depressed, wow.
• Book VI - I don't know where you got "Dumbledore's house elf from," but that is not what Harry is. Sure he does a few things that Dumbledore asks him to do... but he doesn't do the fucking laundry! The only tasks which Harry preforms for Dumbledore are ultimately related to Harry's own destiny. This is his first chance to do the thing he's been itching to do for years, fight back against Voldemort. The fact that he is working under Dumbledore is of no consequence, the old man is the only one who could possible mentor him in this... it is his only option at the time.

So your list should look more like this...

• I - Curious and brave child in awe of a new world.
• II - Recognising that the world is not made up of only good and bad people.
• III - Reckless kid who is beginning to develop an identity.
• IV - Determined boy who faces certain death but doesn't back down.
• V - Courageous, independent, reckless, and *smart
• VI - Basically all of the previous wrapped in to one.

​

 

And he does all this without displaying and significant magical talent

 

I agree wholeheartedly with BMM here, he's got it almost spot on right there.

 

BMM has it almost right, on the last book it should state "Stupid Shit Who Got With A Whore"

 

I don't see how anyone can think Harry got more "mature" and "independent" in books 5 and 6. Harry did the DA because Hermione told him to. Harry talked back to Umbridge because he is an idiot who seems to like fighting losing battles. Harry went to the DoM because JKR wants to turn him into an idiot who suddenly can't think under pressure despite the first four books being contrary to that.

In the first four books, Harry develops a good inuition, he learns when to run and when to fight (Graveyard) he works hard learning new magic when he thinks it will be useful (Patronus, GoF training) and generally he is working towards becoming more powerful and independent. In books five and six, he stops following his inuition, he lets his emotions get the better of him, he doesn't work hard to master occulemency, I mean sure, you can blame that partially on Snape, but he didn't even try to learn it. He never asks anyone for advice or help, despite being able to without embaressment in the first four books, and he generally just stumbles and fails at everything. He went to the Ministry for some stupid hot headed reason without thinking, he fucking dropped his wand when Voldemort showed up, despite never freezing up once in worse situations during the first four books, etc. In book six, he never works hard in class, he has to resort to a book virtually telling him what to do, he never masters silent casting, despite KNOWING that all powerful wizards do it, and it is a must for dueling, he never tries learning new magic, checking out extra books from the library, practicing dueling, asking Dumbledore, etc. Instead he lets Dumbledore lead him around by his dick. He never tries learning occulemency again, despite the fact that Draco Fucking Malfoy learned it. Fuck, when Voldemort was 16 he was becoming immortal, when his fucking dad was 15 he could already do silent spells, when Snivellus was 16 he was INVENTING spells and creating new ways of making potions, when DRACO FUCKING MALFOY is 16, not only can he do occulemency, but he made up a plan that lead to the death of one of the most powerful wizards in the world. What the fuck is Harry doing? His actions in the last two books have been that of an idiotic follower, his character has gone completely down hill, IMO.

 

Hear, hear! He was more of a fighter when he was eleven!

In the last two books, he became one of the most useless, moronic wimps I've ever seen in a hero (if we can even call him that!).

BMM, you think in book 5 he shows independence? and that he's smart? and that he's growing up?

Come on! He's a wimp because he wants to leave the Dursley's and doesn't leave! He's a moron because people tell him Dumbledore's god and he believes it! He's an idiot, because he never stopped to think Dumbledore has no real authority over him, and he could tell Dumbledore to go fuck himself! And he's a masochist, because he suffered a whole year of torture without fighting back!!!


Let's not even move on to book 6, when we get to see the headmaster's perfect pet in action: doesn't think for himself, instantly forgives Dumbledore for Sirius' death and all the other misery he put him through, doesn't do a fucking thing all year in order to get stronger, gets whipped by some slut who must've slipped him a love potion, and, the icing on the cake, doesn't even argue with the old fart when he finds out Dumbledore kept his parents' killer out of jail; yeah, Harry's really on the right path!

The point is, I think Harry lost himself; he's been trying all this time to conform to the image of The Boy Who Lived, to people's expectations of him, and now he finds himself without a personality. He fucked it up, big time.

 

Thats the crux of the matter isn't it. All this time Harry hasn't tried to better himself, yet he has all these examples of wizards begining to show greatness at the same age as he. Dumbledore can be added to the list above, remember the O.W.L. examiner said that she saw Dumbledore do things with a wand in his exam that she had never seen before? Harry seems unmotivated and unwilling to work, or even try to gain anything, power, greatness, or just vengenace on his parent's murderer.

he better pick it up in the next book, or he's gonna be Voldemort's key to immortality

 

I just gotta say, judging by the quote from inferi (sorry, don't know who posted it originally) i pretty much hate this pussy harry over them all. I even have to say that Snape is cooler than harry; he spent time creating spells when harry, at that age, was making out with the whore and watching and old guys memories.

 

Well actually, I find myself wondering lately if Hermoine is actually as smart as most people seem to think. Remember in book 6, she has not even heard of silent casting, let alone tried it or mastered it.

Now, when Snape, James and Sirius were finished their OWLs, they were duelling using silent spells. Thus at 15, they had a good grasp of it, Hermoine (the smartest witch of the age) had not even heard of them.


Also, at 15, Snape had invented spells (in the memory, he used his slashing spell, the hang people up by their foot spell and I think one more).
Heck, even Peter was an animagus when he was what, 15, 16.

 

I agree with BMM on books 1-5, BUT, in book six I think there should have been more training. Granted, Dumbledore was trying to teach Harry how Riddle's mind worked yet it seems to me that Harry was a helluva lot more mature in the first four/five books. I guess at sixteen he finally discovered his hormones or something to that measure.

But, and here's the biggest one of all, we must remember that Rowling is a female author with little to no insight into the male character's mind. Maybe when her kids are older, she'll have a better grasp of it; I know I'm not holding my breath for that one. Rowling has always struck me as more of a plot driven writer rather than a character centered one. That's probably why we at DLP absolutely despise most of her characters, because of poor characterization and poor planning.

 

That could be one of the reasons, most definitely.

But she's also inconsistent as hell; in the first books, we pretty much see things through Harry's pov; we could understand, to some extent, his reasoning, and get a glimpse of his personality; in these latest books, she tells the story from I don't know whose pov, there's absolutely no character development (Harry suddenly gets a *snort* "beast" inside of him, that tells him he loves Ginslut, just like that).

Other characters are so shalow, predictable, or just so plainly, infuriatingly stupid, that they're painful to read about.

And, even if she's a plot writter, not a character writter, even that part of the books went down the drain.

 

I would make excuse her for the plot inconsistencies and gaping holes if she was a new writer, but frankly, she's published six books now. You'd think she would get better, not worse.

 

Goddamn. I agree with BMM but... Goddamn! I was pissed with Book 6 and ranting. Also, I have been in the effing sewer. The bravery thing came off as an insult to me. When I said House elf... erm theres a little something called exaggeration. Do you really think coming off so harsh will change my opinion of Harry? And jealousy? I pity the fool who hopes to beat Voldemort with love, is whipped by a stalker, her mother who shits out children like a fat kid does poop after dinner, and a 150 year old molester.

 

The thing is that after Harry learned that he was the only one who could possibly kill Voldemort, via the prophecy, and had been in a real fight with living, breathing, high-ranking Death Eaters, he didn't try to become more powerful at all. I might be wrong, but I don't think that he even continued the DA! That was the most productive thing that he had done throughout the whole series, and he dropped it like a pregnant girlfriend!

Like others have said before, we have seen AT LEAST 4 (DD, James, Snape, Riddle) instances of these other wizards around the same age as Harry accomplishing things that he fails miserably at. Creating Horcruxes (not that he fails at this, but it seems pretty hard to do), inventing spells, silent casting, and doing things with a wand never seen before...FUCKING A! I recently reread the Inheritance books (Eragon and Eldest) and the same idea that JKR is alluding to trying to accomplish is demostrated pretty well. Eragon develops and matures from a poor farmboy to a fierce warrior through just two books. And at 15-17 years old! He tries his hardest to learn more and better himself, even with a gigantic scar on his back that gives him seizures whenever he overexerts himself!

Harry, at that age, has done NOTHING! Maybe JKR's version of a powerful wizard isn't near as powerful as ours, but Harry should have at least learned Occlumency and how to defend himself properly, or taken the initiative for ONCE, and actually done something.

 

Thank you! And yes, I love the Eragon books. Thats a perfect example of real development! BMM, your thrust into new world theory... Hagrid warned him that their world was dangerous and that Voldemort might come back. I would be scared into training or something. And Harry, as said by the hat, had a thirst to prove himself. He was ambitious and seemed cunning, but did nothing with that. I'll give you book 3 and half of 5, and call you effing crazy about your view of his 'independance' lets agree to disagree

 

What concerns me at this point is how she's going to cover all the plot-holes, tie all loose ends, make him into an actually decent wizard, and write about a goddam treasure hunt, all in the same book!

And if they actually return to the damn school...uke: