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Horcruxes - A Soul Mate Bond?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Banner, Jan 7, 2008.

  1. The Doctor

    The Doctor Unspeakable

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    I think old Voldie was a firm believer in "the end justifies the means".

    The end result was that he couldn't die (correct me if I'm wrong, but did the Horcruxes provide immortality?)

    Meanwhile he lost all traces of his humanity. He became Gollum. Twisted and ruined, a shadow of life.
     
  2. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    I always figured that MOST of the damage to Riddle's sanity happened during the decade that he was cast out of his body. Not that splitting your soul six times is a GOOD idea, but it really seemed to work for Riddle up through October '81.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  3. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

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    Certainly, the subject of "soul magic" is an interesting one. A lot of authors use this "ancient branching of magic" as though it were actually called "uber magic". It would be interesting to see an author properly write what the effects of playing with the soul produce; properly showing how misuse could lead to dementia or any number of fun possibilities (such as twisted "resident evil" bodies as the physical result of such experiments).
     
  4. Memory King

    Memory King Order Member DLP Supporter

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    This idea has the potential to become massive fail, but it could also turn into pure gold if handled properly. I think that the biggest reason for Voldemort's sanity problem is because how often he split his soul. Hour anti-hero's won't do that, but the Soul transplant might have some unintended effects though.
     
  5. Amerision

    Amerision Galactic Sheep Emperor DLP Supporter

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    I smell a cheap cop-out/plot-device. Just sniffin'

    Anyway, why would you go through all that trouble of making your lover's soul more like yours when you could have the same soul to begin with?

    I mean, what's more giggity than that?

    See this if you're retarded and still don't get it. If that isn't enough of a hint go look yourself in the mirror.
     
  6. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    Umm... as a method of achieving immortality? And as a side-effect, increased power?
     
  7. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Actually, ignoring the obvious love-y dove-y shit about soul mates this is actually really interesting. o.o

    I could see it being used by a Dark Harry. o.o

    Fascinating.
     
  8. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The thing is, what possible benefits are there in creating a person as a Horcrux over an object hidden in a properly defended and obscure hiding place (as opposed to some of the stupid places Voldemort chose, like Gringotts.

    Using a person just creates another liability. No one can be trusted that much, especially if you're a Dark wizard. Even more so if you're both Dark Wizards. Even, even, more so if you're both Dark wizards and the act of creating Horcruxes impairs your judgment and conscience. Two people who once trusted each other may not after they've made the horcruxes, because the making of the horcruxes destroys positive emotions such as trust and love.
     
  9. Lyndon Eye

    Lyndon Eye Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    I can see a story where a Dark!Harry kidnaps a bunch of talented, skillful creatures (either human or nonhuman) and makes himself the other being's horcruxes in order to gain their skills while securing their alliances (after all, who would kill a piece of their own soul?).

    Harry would end up with more than one complete soul, but if feasible, would work out pretty well for him. However, there's no need to make the exchange mutual.

    For immortality, Harry could then secure his own soul to some inanimate object (i.e. hunk of rock at the bottom of the ocean), rather than give it (and his skills) to others.
     
  10. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    I was thinking something kind of the opposite, actually, but very similar.

    Dark!Harry collects a few worthwhile sorcerers. In the original idea I had after reading this, I was thinking maybe one of the top witches in his year has something he's interested in Pre-Voldedead. He manipulates her into thinking he loves her, trusts her above all others. tells only her his sekrits, yadda yadda.

    I, of course, see him telling her the prophecy and convincing her he knows a ritual that will virtually guarantee his success and if not, protect him from death, but only she could help him because [insert sappy speech of how only she trusts him and understands him].

    And over time use that to subtle influence her thinking.
     
  11. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    Consider the Weasley twins. I can't see them worrying about each other's dependability. Suppose the Twins went Dark - one of them is stricken with a terminal disease, Voldemort kills their entire family, or just too much war and death. God knows that there are plenty of disposable Death Eaters to use in the ritual (whatever it might be.)

    Or the hypothetical adolescent lovers: crazy about each other, surrounded by unsympathetic establishment types trying to separate them (possibly by putting one in the long-term ward at St. Mungos, and the other at Betty Ford Clinic.) Kids can DO amoral, extreme solutions to emotional problems. As for security, well a pair of children would feel that holding each other's soul would be adequate assurance of trustworthiness.
     
  12. Gabrinth

    Gabrinth Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    I like the Dark!Harry portion of this. The in-love adolescents portion just screams Harry/Ginny soulbonded and fighting back against manipulative!Dumbledore.
     
  13. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    Damnit. What I am TRYING to describe is an unhealthy, insane, EVIL(not dark)relationship between the kids. I can't seem to say it right. The TwinBond thing is coldly sane, rational and heartless.

    These people are anti-heroes, to my mind. Usually they would be the Bad Guys. My original assumptions include human sacrifice as part of the process. There really isn't a *good* reason to be making horcruxes. There are a lot of bad ones, though.
     
  14. deathinapinkboa

    deathinapinkboa Minister of Magic

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    Have Krum convince Hermione to do it during her forth year. I always enjoy a dark Hermione, I think she makes a worthy opponent for Harry.

    The fact that they were once friends makes it all the more delicious.

    A Dark Duo would be a real challenge for Harry after the number of uber powers he must have to defeat Voldemort with out a pleathora of deus ex machina.
     
  15. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

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    Took the words right out of my mouth... keyboard... whatever.

    For instance, the Screams series by Cloneserpents. I've said before, I've never cared much for truly Dark!Harry, even less Evil!Harry but a dark!Harry that goes down and takes a willing Hermione with him or vice versa...

    I could see a dark Hermione, being ever the pragmatic one, taking a closer look at Voldemort's horcruxes and saying to herself, "I bet we could really take this idea and do something even better."

    Particularly in those 'us against the world' fics, it's easy to imagine Hermione being taken in by the lure of researching such obscure and forbidden knowledge. That it helps them get sweet revenge is also a plus. The challenge of actually pulling off such a thing would probably speak to her competitive drive as well. "...and, after all, it's for a good cause... Who's going to miss a few death eaters, really?"

    It's not hard to imagine her presenting the idea of willingly turning each other into horcruxes to Harry with the angle that it could potentially allow them to share talents, knowledge, power, et cetera, and as a bonus, you have to kill both of them at the same time or else they just keep coming back on you. Having Hermione in his head like that could also give him an extra boost in resisting Tom's invasions of his mind; two against one and all that.

    ...
    Comedy is really the last thing I'd write using this idea but this did kind of spring to mind.

    In a similar scenario, where the two are still on speaking terms with Ron, it would be funny to see his reaction.
    Even funnier if Hermione did it, not because she had any immediate interest in Harry as a boyfriend, but simply out of her loyalty to him and to help with the war effort.
    Not only would Ron be appalled at the fact that they used such dark magic (dark soul magic at that!) but the notion that the girl he's had his eye on had just irrevocably intertwined her soul with Harry's would probably make Weasley blow his empty little copper top. Lulz.

    Talk about a kick in the balls...

    "So you killed people in order to do this?"

    "Yes, Ron, but they were death eaters who had killed countless innocents. That this will help Harry defeat Voldemort more than outweighs the slaying of a pair of death eaters; which, might I add, was a righteous kill, to borrow a phrase from law enforcement. Besides, I owed Dolohov; may he rot in pieces."

    "Er, okay... I guess that's, um, not as bad as it could be. How does it help, exactly?"

    "Well, as long as one of us is left alive, the remaining one can resurrect the dead one. And that ritual doesn't even necessarily require more killing."

    "Necessarily?"

    "It would be rather frivolous but if, somewhere down the road, I get tired of looking old, I could have Harry kill and resurrect me and I'll be back in my seventeen year old body."

    "That's just disgu- Wait, then why did You-Know-Who come back all, you know, old and snakey? He made his first horcrux when he was still young."

    "Yes but, as you said, that was his first horcrux. Soul magic is rather tricky but my research indicates the most recently created soul anchor takes precedence. By the time Tom Riddle created his final horcrux, he had already undergone some rather... extreme rituals."

    "Oh. That makes sense... I guess."

    "Right. Also, we can access each other's power, to a certain extent, and can communicate by sending each other visions or letting the other look through our eyes, like what happens with Harry and Voldemort. Actually, we're hoping this will help Harry keep Voldemort out of his head from now on."

    "Blimey! That would be something."

    "Indeed. Also, we have access to all of each other's memories and-"

    "You mean Harry can use your brain now to cheat on tests?"

    "As if we'd make horcruxes of each other for that!"

    "Wait, wait, wait! Does that mean... all of your memories?"

    "Yes, why do you ask?"

    "So Harry's seen you, er, in your memories, um..."

    "What do you mean?

    "Er, well, you know...

    "Oh, memories where one of us was naked?"

    "Erk!"

    "Yes, that one took us by surprise, I'm afraid. Quite embarrassing for both of us, actually. I really should have anticipated... Anyway, it was quite unavoidable. Though I was still mortified about the- well, they say everyone does it but still- Oh well, it's not that big a deal, considering how high the stakes are."

    "Not a big-"

    "Actually, since I shower with the other Gryffindor girls, he's seen them too, I suppose. And there was mother at the spa... Oh dear."

    "All of them? Even Angelina with those big-"

    "I should have known you'd turn the thing that could win the war for us into an opportunity to play peeping tom. Honestly, Ron, don't be vulgar."

    "Peeping You-Know-Who? I'm no bloody dark lord!"

    "It's just a saying that- You know what, I refuse to believe that phrase could possibly be exclusive to muggles. You really need to expand your vocabulary."

    "Wait- That means he's seen Ginny too! I'll kill him!"

    "Oh for Morgana's sake, Ron, you and your one track mind. Rest assured that, unlike you, Harry and I have better things to do than scour our memories looking for the nude scenes. I've seen everyone Harry has showered with too and they're not that impres- er, interesting."

    "Oh, well that's- Hey, I've used the boys' shower with Harry!"

    "I imagine you haven't even considered the negative aspects. For instance, not long after the rituals, I ran across a memory of Harry accidentally walking in on his aunt and uncle while they were engaged in some kind of equine/porcine mating ritual. Actually, I'm trying to find a way to use that one against Voldemort. Then I may get someone to obliviate both of us..."

    "Bloody hell, that walrus wasn't on top, was he?"

    "You really want to know?"

    "Er, no. I like being able to eat too much to chance losing my appetite."

    "That's the first smart thing you've said all afternoon. Anyway, I hear the water running so I'm going to go join Harry in the tub."

    "What!"

    "What yourself, Ron. It's not like there's any mystery left in that department, is there?
    * Besides, though I'm sure it's not glamorous enough for you, there are other ways to save the planet than butchering death eaters. Water conservation is important too."

    "B-but Harry- you... naked- I fancy y-"

    "Plus,
    I can go over our itinerary and our study agenda while we're in there, so it's like getting triple value for our time; and that's without a Time Turner! Later, Ron."

    "But- You- He- Dammit to sodding, bloody Hell!"

    ....

    "Oh, it's you, Weasley. What on Earth do you want?"

    "So, Malf- er, Draco... Do you guys have a recruiting station somewhere, like the aurors, or what?"

    "What are you on about?"

    "If I have to buy my own cloak and mask, is there an, um, installment plan or something?
    "Wut?"
    :banana:

    *I just realized that sentence could be taken as a Potter-specific pun. Hehe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2008
  16. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    I'm trying to picture a three-way (two soul-splits per person) horcrux exchange for Harry. Hermione (obviously.) Ron wouldn't be able to go through with it. His attachment to his family is THE overriding drive in his life. Harry couldn't care less about his blood kin. Hermione walked away, with grief but no regrets. Ron would have to lose it all before he considered a soul bond.

    It would have to e someone who would bring a major asset to the gestalt. Someone they trust completely. Not Tonks - her abilities would be great, but she's got plans for after the War. Remus is too easily pushed around, and has real commitment issues. Someone *hungry* enough to make the commitment. I think that would be either Luna (whose friends were incredibly important to her [besides I *like* seer!Luna,]) or Neville (who understands hatred and is willing to make a sacrifice.) If the sacrifice has to be important to the caster, then maybe we could sacrifice the Longbottoms?

    I still like the idea of dark!WeasleyTwins. They would do it secretly, possibly from fear of one of them being lost in battle. HEY! I wonder if we could harvest some skill, Gift, talent, etc. from the sacrifice? If he's just going to die, anyway, why not try to make him really useful? In that case, I vote for Snape as ritual sacrifice. Maybe we can get some of his Potions skills. Maybe Trelawney - she's a pain in the ass, with a useful Gift.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  17. Kardikek

    Kardikek Groundskeeper

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    Alright so let's assume we all have souls. Just what does it actually do? What does splitting an imaginary concept do?
    Is it connected to your memory? Your personality? Instincts? A repository for karma? Does it matter that your soul is in pieces spread around the globe when none of it is actually destroyed?
     
  18. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    Harry inherited a magical ability with his curse scar/soul fragment, so we can deduce that At Least part of a soul is magical. It tried to get back to Voldemort whenever he was pretty close, so it has a certain amount of ... drive. The Locket seemed to exude a certain feeling of hatred and Darkness. That could be the protections on it, however: the Diary didn't *appear* malevolent.

    Voldemort used his horcuxes to communicate with Harry and Nagini. I don't remember Harry having any Voldemort-nightmares 'til after the graveyard. (The poor kid had LOTS of nightmares, but they were all based on his own life before that.) So there were no memories attached.

    Ghosts are fairly conscious in JKR's world. They are entire souls, however. When Voldemort's remaining soul possessed Quirrell, it had enough magic to Form A Expressive Face on the back of the man's skull.

    This needs thought.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  19. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Only because Riddle didn't want to seem malevolent. It worked better for him to play nice.

    But remember, the creation of a horcrux must be made by splitting your soul, you must murder. There isn't really a way to get around that and be the anti-hero you're talking about. An Indy!Harry isn't going to do it.

    Untrue, on both counts. Harry, before Hogwarts, has dreams of things happening when he is 15 months old, a thing so exceptionally rare, that you may as well call it impossible.

    As well, if there are no memories attached, how did the Diary's version of Riddle know everything he did?

    A horcrux is an exact copy of the soul from the time it is created.

    Ghosts, as mentioned in canon, are the imprints of a wizards souls, as Nick, and Snape I think it was, later mention...

     
  20. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
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