Don't you just love fanfiction? Things work however you want them to work.

Note: Even in fanfiction mpreg should not be possible. Bloody wankers and morons who think it is can go to hell.:fire

 

It's not really my fanon interpretation - I just straight up misinterpreted how they worked in the novels. Hence, my confusion about the curse rebounding scene.

 

What I do not understand is, if Voldemort´s soul was unstable enough to break apart in 1981, then why could Voldemort make another Horcrux (Nagini) and possibly other Horcruxes or possess people and animals with no consequences ?

Horcrux-making spell is designed to tear your soul apart (and encase it in object). Hard to imagine that its use on mangled and highly-unstable remnant would have no adverse effects. It is unnatural after all.

 

Voldemort's soul being unstable enough for it to break under the blunt trauma of the rebounding Killing Curse, doesn't make it too unstable to create Horcruxes. You can compare it to an unstable Jenga puzzle. Just because bumping into the table will probably cause some blocks to fall, doesn't mean you can't still remove other pieces without it falling apart. You just have to be carefull. And seeing as the Horcrux spell was made specifically for removing parts of the soul, it isn't that strange for it to still work in unfavourable circumstances. Being an affront to nature doesn't make it a sloppy spell.

There's also the fact that a soul needs to be unstable for the Horcrux spell to work. That's why murder is necessary after all. So it might have actually made it easier to create a Horcrux.

 

So if instability of soul makes it easier to create one, does that mean that Voldemort could have even more Horcruxes (if he had enough important objects for them of course) ?

I remember something like "Voldemort pushed his soul to limit" from DH, but I could be mistaken. This would imply that instability of soul has eventually an adverse effect on creating more Horcruxes.

And could the unusual effects of Diary be explained with possibility that Horcrux-making spell did exactly what it should have done only in this first case ? It shredded unbroken soul and made perfect Horcrux. In other cases, it shredded already unstable and incomplete soul, so the result were imperfect and not so powerful Horcruxes ?
Nobody has made more than one Horcruxes before LV after all.

 

According to Dumbledore, Voldemort chose to make 6 Horcruxes because it was a magically significant number. He doesn't mention anything about it being the highest possible number. Still, it is possible that at some point, Voldemort simply wouldn't have enough soul left to create a new Horcrux. Or indeed that, even though the soul has to be unstable to create a Horcrux, there is a theoretical point were the soul becomes too damaged to purposely split it. Damaged beyond use, in a way (that point hadn't been reached in '81, though). Either way, it isn't so much the creation of Horcruxes as it is committing murders in cold blood, that makes the soul unstable. That's the kind of 'acts of unspeakable evil' Dumbledore talks about anyway, when he tells Harry about Voldemort's unstable soul.

It was never actually stated in canon, that only the Diary had the potential to posses someone. Possession by a Horcrux isn't a one-way street though. As Riddle explains in CoS, he was only able to begin taking control of Ginny when she started to bare her soul to him. You have to somehow open yourself up to the Horcrux. And that's a lot easier to do with a diary than, say, a cup. Still, even the locket was able to influence it's wearers through mere proximity. I imagine that, if someone would get truly attached to the locket (because it's a family heirloom or something) it might actually be able to posses that person.

However, Dumbledore does mention Voldemort specifically intended the diary to posses someone. So it's possible Riddle altered or enhanced the Horcrux to gain this ability. The creation of a Horcrux already seems like exceptionally advanced magic though, so it would have been nothing short of amazing for a young Riddle to be able to change it. On the other hand, the ability to posses someone does seem to conflict with its main function as soul anchor, something Dumbledore also points out. So it's not completely impossible for a young and prideful Riddle to have enhanced his first Horcrux, just to be able to finish mighty Slytherin's work himself one day. Which he then never does.

 

I'm pretty sure that in the right circumstances, any Horcrux could possess someone. Even if there's something circumstantial that goes against this idea, there's no reason it couldn't be written as such by a fanfic writer. Speaking of which...

Given me a bunny.

DH, Horcrux 'hunt', Ron doesn't leave the other two and storm off. The little voice inside his head convinces him to stick it out. Cue Frodo-style 'I shall bear the ring!' crossed with a Ginny/Diary scenario, but in constant, close proximity to the BWL. Be really interesting to see how far it could be taken, and there's something about a potentially well written DarkLord!Ron that makes me grin like a madman.

 

Can someone explain why Voldemort didn't try the magical number seven thing again after his rebirth, when he found out that the Diary Horcrux was destroyed?

@Grinning Lizard: one suggestion. That's also the chapter when they found out about the situation in Hogwarts and the Wizarding world in general via overheard conversations from Dean, Dirk & Ted. Perhaps instead of leaving them alone Harry recruited the Muggleborn wizards and the goblins into his group as well? Add more things to the mix, make it more interesting.
tl;dr throw it in the Plot Bunny thread.

 

I'm not sure if there is a good reason beyond Rowling not wanting to deal with that shit.

However, canon does give a possible anwser. In HBP, Dumbledore mentions Voldemort always intended the Diarycrux to posses someone to open the Chamber of Secrets. He just never intended Malfoy to do so on his own. This indicates that Voldemort was still willing to potentially sacrifice one Horcrux to open the Chamber, even when the wild years of his youth already were far behind him. A little redundant for a guy, that expected himself to rule Brittain in the foreseeable future. It's not like he really needed the diary to kill some Mudbloods and claim the opening of the Chamber. I'll just write that need to have his younger self finish the job down under his addiction for symbolism.

Anyway, this does seem that Voldemort was willing to sacrifice one of his Horcruxes for The Greater Good (wink wink). So apparantly splitting his soul in seven pieces was already good enough, even if he didn't actually have seven pieces anymore. Although it is possible he simply couldn't find an object symbolic enough to turn into a Horcrux and found the symbolism of the containers more important than the symbolism of the amount.

The diary (and Nagini) never made as much 'sense' to me as the other Horcruxes anyway. Rowling sort of handwaved most of that away by making Dumbledore say it made sense. I mean, come on, Nagini is a Horcrux, because the snake 'underlies his Slytherin connection'. What's next, digging up dear old mum and turning her into a Horcrux to 'prove his relation to Slytherin'? Might as well turn Helena Ravenclaw into a Horcrux. That would have been a bitch to damage beyond repair.

 

Another thought occurs, when exactly was Nagini made a familiar of Voldemort's and when did she become a Horcrux?
Sorry if this had come up before.

 

I think Voldemort simply fucked up. As he himself said, he was pushing magic far beyond tested boundaries, especially with the decision to make multiple horcruxes.

But he made mistakes. My theories:

1. All horcruxes have the ability to eventually take over another person. Every piece that wasn't hidden the way he'd hidden the locket was a poor, poor decision on his part - which I think JKR was hinting at. The diary came closest to possessing someone due to the Ginny's easily-influenced personality and prolonged exposure to the horcrux, but I wouldn't be surprised if the locket was capable of doing so as well. Definitely wouldn't surprise me if wearing the diadem or drinking from Hufflepuff's cup had the same effect.

That said...

2. The possessed soul would be completely subservient to Voldemort. The control that he had over Nagini extended far beyond the fact that he could communicate with her. He could see what she saw, feel what she felt, etc. If Ginny had been completely possessed, and Voldemort still didn't have a body, I don't think he would've taken over her body (unless he's into having girl parts...). He'd probably get her to collect everything necessary for him to regain a body, but without having to piggyback on the back of her head like he did with Quirrel.

3. I think he recognized the use of Nagini as a terrible choice, but what could he do? If there was a way to transfer the soul fragment from his snake to something else, he would've done so the moment he found out that Harry was destroying his horcruxes.

4. Harry wasn't taken over because of mum's protection. Otherwise, he'd have been Voldemort's puppet a long time ago. He almost was, in OotP. I like to think that the difference between Voldemort's control over Nagini and his control over Harry, is like riding down a normal water slide versus riding down a slide lined with spikes. Yes, the latter is possible, but FUUUUHUUUUUUUUU-

 

Shortly after the start of GoF. He used the murder of the muggle he killed with Nagini for it. There isn't any mention of Nagini before, so she's probably from Albania or something.

Voldemort had to be very close to Harry to truly posses him though. Maybe he had to do that with Nagini as well. There isn't really anything in the books that indicate he had the same kind of connection to his other Horcruxes as he had to Nagini either way. He never noticed them being destroyed after all, while Nagini was actually able to call him in Godric's Hollow. The other Horcruxes would have given some sign if they shared a similar connection. It's possibly a side effect of having a living Horcrux or his general power over snakes due to Parseltongue.

I always thought his connection with Harry was special as well. Not only should Voldemort have realized Harry might be a Horcrux if the connection was the same, but Harry was also created in a different way. He became a Horcrux through blunt trauma to Voldemort's unbalanced soul instead of through the Horcrux spell. I believe Harry's soulpiece was never as 'disconnected' from the main soul as a true Horcrux because of that, which also caused the headaches and allowed Harry to look through Voldemort's eyes.

I don't think Voldemort ever truly considered someone finding out about his Horcruxes. His protections were rather.. lacking if he did, anyway. He only created his own defenses to the locket and the ring, trusted Malfoy Manor and Gringotts to be safe enough for the diary and the cup, send Nagini out on missions and didn't do anything to protect the diadem at all. In his need for symbolic objects, hiding places and amount, he clearly underestimated his enemies.

 

I wonder what would have happened if he transfigured Nagini into, say, a crystal ball and put it away. Technically, the Horcrux container is not destroyed, just changed.

Thanks to the above, ViolentRed, for the answer btw.

 

I think that's not possible. Just like a Horcrux repairs or is protected against almost all damage, it probably isn't possible to change it in any way. Although the rules are different for living Horcruxes, seeing as Harry partially transfigured himself with Gillyweed. So maybe it is possible with Nagini. Harry was never a true Horcrux though, blah blah blah.

It would be a lot easier if Voldemort transfigured Nagini before turning her into a Horcrux.

Although in both cases it would kind of defeat the purpose of choosing Nagini in the first place.

Fucking Horcruxes. Maybe Pottermore will provide some clearity.

 

a thought occurs to me. I've always viewed a horcrux as a lifeline, similar to what you can see in master and commander when the tie themselves to the mast.

my thought is that the multiple horcruxes give greater protection from death much like multiple tied points would keep you further from falling off the boat.

by this I mean that you had another, similar length of rope tied to the bow of the ship, triangulating to keep you further from death. in the sense of horcruxes, this could scale how much lethal magics affect voldemort. meaning one, for example, does the whole disembodied thing, whil many allows you to shrug off killing curses completely. I'm aware this is not supported by cannon at ALL, but it would be nice to see.

 

It's an interesting idea, but he already had five when he went to kill Harry. But yeah, in an AU magic system, it could be an actual reason for having more than one, beyond safety through redundancy.

 

that was what I meant. Suppose I should have explicitly stated 'in an au.'

 

Figured I'd finally contribute to this thread. TL;DR to follow!

I agree that they're not "alive," but they do have an awareness about them.

Rowling actually addressed this in some interview or other. The question was asked about what would have happened if Diary!Tom had succeeded in draining Ginny to make himself a complete new body, and Rowling's reply was something like, "That would have made defeating Voldemort much, much harder."

Whether that meant that the Diary!Tom would seek out wraith!Voldemort and resurrect him as well, or just go on a killing spree of its own, or something totally different, I don't know. At one time, I had figured that Diary!Tom would've sought out the wraith, restored it to the new body, and been subsequently placed back into the Diary, going back to being a fail-safe (and I still like that as a plot-bunny, btw), but the more I've thought about how arrogant Diary!Tom was, and how he couldn't fathom his older self having been defeated by baby Harry, the more I think a wholly-formed Diary!Tom would start from scratch and try to go about his original plans a second time, but without fucking it all up again.

Agreed, and that's exactly what JKR has said.

It's a way to tether yourself to the mortal coil, and that's why they're likened to anchors. To keep a ship in a certain spot, you only need to drop anchor, and that anchor doesn't need to be even remotely as large or powerful as the ship itself, rather just enough to keep the ship from floating away on the waves.

I really like the Jenga analogy. Well done.

And now for all the fanfics in which Molly nails Bellatrix with the AK, and the Great Hall is filled with so many tiny soul fragments that it looks like a ticker-tape parade. Suddenly, everyone in the place is a Bellacrux.

Molly: /sheepish/ "Woopsy daisy."
Harry: /pulls out the Elder Wand/ "Goddammit. Right, everybody line up." /mumbles/ "This had better still fucking work, Dumbledore."

I thought that Rowling mentioned this as well. The Locket played up everyone's worst attributes, making all three of them edgy and irritable, less trusting. That's the Horcrux's and Voldemort's personality shining through.

I actually felt that the Locket and Umbridge's attachment to it were the reasons she could cast a Patronus in DH. With her being such a vile person, not only was wearing the Locket not a detriment to her, it was in fact a plus. I imagine that had she continued to wear it, and continue to believe it was from the Selwyn family (or, even worse, find out it was Slytherin's), the Horcrux might have possessed her as well, and perhaps even drained her for a new Tom Riddle, a la Ginny and the Diary.

I'm not sure I agree there. It's very possible that young Tom Riddle wanted the Diary to be able to act as a weapon but also have that possess-then-drain function be part of the fail-safe duties of a Horcrux.

What I mean is, maybe he figured, "Well, I don't plan to ever use this except through one of my lackeys, and if I'm somehow killed, one of them setting this loose will result in the Horcrux gaining a body, opening the Chamber and, in the resulting confusion and panic, find my wandering spirit and bring me back."

I highly doubt 16-year-old Tom had this in mind, if for no other reason than he believed himself too clever and beyond suspicion to ever be caught off-guard and killed, but it's certainly possible.

Just because an older Voldemort told Lucius it was a weapon to cleanse the Mudbloods, that in no way means Voldemort was being straight with old Lucy. He might've been counting on Lucius' duplicitous nature there, and worried that if Lucius knew the true nature of the Diary and Voldemort was gone and believed to be dead, Lucius might turn the Diary over to the Ministry as part of an "I was Imperiused!" charade.

Yep, I think so, too.

But Ginny *was* completely possessed. She was ignorant of everything that happened while she was under its influence, but neither she nor the Diary knew that the older Voldemort was still alive as a wraith. The Diary didn't know whether or not more Horcruxes had been made, or if its own existence even guaranteed its older "self" had survived the encounter with Harry.

To be fair, I think that Voldemort, once he found out the Cup had been pilfered, was far more concerned with checking on his other Horcruxes, and when he went to the shack and the cave and found they were in fact being destroyed, his only concern was to check on the Diadem. He wasn't worried about Nagini since she was with him, and if he'd been able to secure the Diadem, I imagine he'd have started placing god-level protections on the Diadem and then turned his attention to making Nagini into a more durable and permanent Horcrux.

No, Voldemort never realized Harry was a Horcrux. He possessed Harry because (1) he could, and (2) to try to goad Dumbledore into killing Harry. The really scary thing with that whole OotP possession thing is that it implies Voldemort could possess people in general. Maybe he knew it would be far easier to possess Harry because of the connection they shared, but it seems to me a very risky gamble to try to possess someone - in the middle of a fight with the most badass motherfucker on the planet - unless you've got a lot of experience with it and are pretty sure it'll work.

And it wasn't mum's protection that saved him, it was his own feelings for Sirius and his friends.

I think it was solely because Nagini was alive. Otherwise, the Diary would have known Voldemort was still alive, and the Locket, etc. would have notified Voldemort that not only was it in a spot danger, but "Oh by the way, we're in the Forest of Dean, would you kindly pop on over and murder these angsty fucking crybabies?"

Again, Rowling addressed this, and you're right that the Scarcrux wasn't completely disconnected. The pain Harry feels in Voldemort's presence is that soul fragment trying to rejoin the... mothership? The master soul? Whatever's left as the wraith, at any rate.

New stuff:

I think someone commented on the deformed-baby-thing in the limbo version of King's Cross, and how that was the quasi-Horcrux, but I don't think it is/was, at least if you believe that Harry really met the spirit of Dumbledore and that whole scene wasn't simply his own subconscious or Id putting all the pieces together. (that's been a theory of mine and has been blasted in other threads already)

I think the Scarcrux was destroyed at that point, gone completely. That deformed-baby-thing? That was the remainder of the soul of Voldemort himself, because he was sort of in limbo as well, as a result of (1) his destruction of his own soul fragment residing in Harry, and (2) the blood-connection between Harry and his new body.

When Voldemort hit Harry with the Killing Curse there in the forest, Harry was sort of killed along with the Scarcrux, since as Dumbledore stated, Harry could choose to return to his body, or choose to "go on." According to Dumbledore, the reason Harry had any choice at all was Voldemort having used Harry's blood, tying Harry to the mortal coil and becoming, in effect, Harry's Horcrux. It makes sense to me that Harry being in the in-between would also pull Voldemort into the in-between.

One could even argue that Harry and Voldemort dragged each other into the in-between, because Voldemort destroying his own Horcrux blew himself out of his body, though the Nagini-crux tethered him to life, at the same time that Harry would be dragged to the in-between as a result of (a) getting hit with an AK, albeit filtered through his Scarcrux, and (2) Voldemort being thrown into the in-between and, through the blood connection, dragging Harry with him.

That's last part is terribly convoluted, yes, and probably doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. I just came up with that part, so I don't claim it to be correct.

But I stand by my statement that it was Voldemort himself as the baby in King's Cross. What other reason would there be for Voldemort also being laid out on the ground when Harry wakes up on returning to his body?

 

I agree with the baby in King's Cross being Voldemort himself. I suspected the same myself and it does make sense with Voldemort being knocked out after "killing" Harry and the Scarcrux being killed already. I think Dumbledore even said the Scarcrux was gone at that point, so it wouldn't make sense for it to still lie there. The deformed baby also seems to be the same as Voldemort's baby form before his resurrection.

I think it was mostly Harry dragging Voldemort with him through the blood connection or just their triple (blood, soul, wand) connection in general. So if Harry had chosen to "move on", Voldemort would probably always have moved back to his body, because Harry's complete death would have severed that connection. Even without Nagini.

However, I'd like to go one step further and connect this with another theory of mine. In that in-between stage Voldemort was completely powerless and truly beyond help, while Harry could walk around freely and could physically "board a train". I think this symbolizes Voldemort's disability to move on the the Next Great Adventure. I believe that's the true sacrifice of a Horcrux and what makes it so terribly Dark. Not just the murder of an innocent, but the destruction of one's own afterlife through the mutilation of the soul. I think only whole souls can truly "move on", so the creator of a Horcrux in a way trades the eternal afterlife for eternal life.

That might also be why Harry told Voldemort to show some remorse right before their final battle. Remorse is the only thing that can heal a soul after it's been split into pieces. And Harry knew what was waiting for him if he didn't: A fate so horrible he even wanted to give his mortal enemy a change to escape it.