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HP Questions that don't deserve their own thread V2

Discussion in 'FanFic Discussion' started by Sesc, Oct 22, 2014.

  1. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Link to V1.


    This is a thread for asking questions on Harry Potter Canon that don't deserve their own thread -- that is to say, short questions that you don't see garnering much discussion, typically simple fact-based questions, and are loath to waste an entire thread on.

    The following rules cover only the narrowest thematical range. Generally, as long as it has remotely to do with Harry Potter, we're probably going to let it pass, but don't abuse the leniency. Especially the no-discussion rule is there for a reason, as the point of this thread is a quick fact-reference for writers that isn't supposed to drown in pages of whatever aspect became the topic of the day.

    If it's good enough for discussion, this means it deserves its own thread.

    Source your answers! "Canon" is everything Rowling published for the purpose of this thread, but not everyone likes to use e.g. Pottermore, so make clear where you answer comes from.



    Questions:
    You are allowed to ask questions that have straight-forward Canon answers.
    Question: Which class did Harry have first thing on Monday in OotP?
    Answer: History of Magic.​
    You are allowed to ask for opinions on a very specific, narrow topic that can be reasonably judged by Canon facts.
    Question: Is there a wand needed to Apparate?
    Opinion (1): Yes. In DH, Ron says they can't Apparate, because he doesn't have his wand.
    Opinion (2): No. We've seen people Apparate without holding their wands.
    Opinion (3): Not sure. It was never said to be needed during the Apparition lessons in HBP, in any case.​
    Not: What would happen to Harry in Slytherin? (too broad), What's McGonagall's favourite dish (impossible to say).

    Of course, a question may unknowingly have no Canon answer -- indeed, being unsure about that may be the very reason to ask. In that case, the answer simply is "there is no Canon-answer" -- and then the thread moves on.


    Answers:
    You are allowed to answer questions with Canon facts, provided someone else hasn't already done so.
    You are allowed to share your opinion based on Canon facts.



    Anything else does not belong into this thread! This includes especially posts with exclusive

    • Speculation
    • Responding to posts other than the one asking the questions, or talking about a topic other than the question, hence
    • Discussions
    • Joking
    • Trolling
    For everything else, you are ENCOURAGED to

    • Search the Forums -- much has already been discussed, so you might find a thread that way
    • Create a new thread -- discussions are encouraged, just not in this thread.
     
  2. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    If you don't have time to read the OP, you don't have time to post. We'll be watching this pretty closely to ensure it doesn't become the shitfest the last one did, so don't say you weren't warned.
     
  3. Odran

    Odran Prisoner

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    Could a Veela's allure override Amortentia, even just temporarily?
     
  4. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    We have no canon source on this.

    But to answer your question, I highly doubt that. Amortentia is said to be the most powerful love potion in the world (HBP).
     
  5. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Veela allure is fanon. In canon, we know:

    1. Veela can make people lose their minds when they dance.

    2. Veela are extremely beautiful.

    The latter can make people say stupid things, just like people do IRL to impress people. As Veela are more beautiful than any normal woman, the things people say are correspondingly more idiotic.

    But there is no evidence of mental influence power as standard. The way the mental influence was described during the dance scene was completely different to how the way Veela are described normally (flying to Jupiter scene), which simply induces spontaneous attempts to impress them in line with normal interaction with people you want to impress.

    The idea that this is the result of direct magical influence on minds (allure), rather than magical enhancement of beauty itself, is compatible with canon but not necessitated by it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  6. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros.

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    Can't that just be the crowd being rowdy though? Or did the text in GoF imply otherwise?
     
  7. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    People were prepared to jump to their deaths at the sight of them (if not death, then serious injury). I think that qualifies as maddening influence.

    The link in OP goes to this thread.
     
  8. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    The text implied a loss of inhibition, yeah, but conceivably you could even explain that as normal reaction to that level of beauty. It's hard for us to say as we've never seen it.

    It's not hard to believe though. Compare how a group of drunk men reacts to a group of extremely attractive women. Now make those women supernaturally beautiful and doing a sexy dance.
     
  9. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 Prestige

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    Taure has it almost right, except that he forgot about Stan Shurpike and the Veela in the woods after the match. Let's go back to the pregame Veela showing first, however:

    A bit later, the ref flexed before the Veela, which shows the same basic idea of trying to impress a Veela. Then, we see Stan Shurpike trumpeting his plans and future ambitions in the same manner.

    So, while it is not expressly said that the Veela exibited control over others in a way that has become known as "allure" in fanfiction (note however, that allure includes so much more than what was in the books), it is most definitely canon that a Veela's very presence (the part Taure forgot about) can affect a wizard to start boasting, and their dancing can affect a wizard to do very stupid things.
     
  10. Warlocke

    Warlocke Prisoner

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    I'd agree with that.

    I'd also add that, in my opinion, a magical potion directly acting upon the brain, via its introduction into the body, trumps an effect that acts solely upon the mind, and does so from without (though a veela wouldn't have to negate or overwhelm the potion, just shift the focus of the potion's effects to herself...).
     
  11. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    ... I explicitely mentioned this. Twice.
     
  12. wordhammer

    wordhammer Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    And yet, doesn't the description of Harry's symptoms seem similar to the effect of the Imperius Curse? Both were detailed in the 4th book. In an 'epileptic trees' way, I could see the Curse being inspired by or even derived from the Veela's deadly-waves-of-stupidness powers.

    EDIT: er, apologies for the conjecture that defies the rules of the thread. Next question, please.
     
  13. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Here's a simple canon question: how much non-verbal magic does Harry do in DH? Is there any indication that he's completely mastered it?
     
  14. esran

    esran Professor

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    Completely mastered it in that he can cast every spell nonverbally? no.
    Completely mastered it for a given subset of spells? yes.
    Completely mastered it for every spell he knows? maybe.
     
  15. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    I think JKR almost completely forgot the existence of non-verbal magic in DH. Even Levicorpus and its counter-curse, explicitly stated to be non-verbal in HBP, are used verbally by Hermione at Gringotts in DH.

    It is implied in HBP that what while Harry struggles in non-verbal magic, he can use atleast some magic non-verbally in his classes. But he clearly doesn't have enough confidence in his skills to start using non-verbal curses in duels.

    Whatever. It was still painful to read Harry struggle in the lone subject he ever excelled in at school, especially since it was taught by his most hated professor. But he did become head auror in canon. So yes, we can assumed he did master non-verbal dueling eventually.
     
  16. Newcomb

    Newcomb Headmaster

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    Is there any canon justification for making Fawkes an actual intelligent being instead of, as Dumbledore explicitly calls him, a pet?
     
  17. Warburg

    Warburg Seventh Year

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    The Chamber of Secrets incident or being immortal for that matter?
     
  18. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    The strongest evidence is Order of the Phoenix, where Fawkes gives Dumbledore the signal that Umbridge is distracted. That's a moderately complex task to perform.

    So Fawkes certainly has a high level of intelligence for an animal, probably greater than even the smartest chimpanzees. How intelligent, however, is unknown.
     
  19. Download

    Download Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    Is there any canon evidence for phoenixes only associating with people of pure of heart/good? A lot of fics either have Dumbledore enslaving Fawkes to stop him running, or make it out to be that Dumbledore manufactured the myth of phoenixes only associating with light wizards.
     
  20. esran

    esran Professor

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    Canon doesn't even have light wizards, and the other canon phoenix is a quidditch mascot.
    The closest thing in canon is Fawkes's apparent ability to sense that Harry was in danger and loyal to Dumbledore and come to his aid. I was never quite clear on this. However, this is a preference for wizards who are as loyal to the domesticater as the phoenix is, not a preference for good or "light" wizards.